Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

Over the past two years, playing for the same team, Trochek has 4 more points than Mika. Mika is “out producing” Trochek by 1 point this year.

Their career points per 82 games are 6 apart, no matter how many times you want to say that Mika “in the worst year of his career” is “out producing” him. It’s 59 and 58 points. Short handed points isn’t the primary measure of effectiveness as a penalty killer - Trochek is the superior defensive player.

When two players of the same age are 6 points apart in their 82 game average over 800+ games, you can say whatever you want as hard as you want and it won’t make it true.

Mika had some higher offensive peaks but ultimately has averaged out to be almost the exact same player. Last year Trochek had him beat by 5. This year Mika has him by 1, with a game remaining. Over the course of Trochek’s time as a Ranger Mika is up by 23 points over 3 seasons, or roughly ~8 points per year. So we’ve got the career sample size where they are 6 points apart per 82 and the 3 year sample size where they’re separated by ~8. We’ve got the last 2 years where Trochek is ahead by 4 points and we’ve got this season where Mika is ahead by 1. It seems like they’ve been pretty similar players to me, whether it’s across entire careers, the last 3, 2 or 1 seasons.

Zibanejad had a higher peak with career years of 91 and 81 points, while Trochek had 77 and 75 as his bests. Pretty close to what separates their career averages as well.

Of Mika’s 91 and 81, 39 and 28 came on the PP respectively. Also 31 of his 72 last year, and 19 of his 59 this year.

Of Trochek’s 77 and 75, 24 and 27 came on the PP respectively. Only 24 of his 77 last year, and 12 of his 58 this year.

Last year, Zibanejad 72 points, 41 non PP. This year 59 points, 40 non PP. 131 points, 81 non PP points.

Last year, Trochek 77 points, 53 non PP. This year 58 points, 46 non PP. 135 points, 99 non PP points.

Trochek’s first year as a Ranger, he had 64 points, 47 not on the PP. That was Mika’s 91 point career year - he had 52 not on the PP.

Since Trochek came to NY, it’s 222 points for Mika with 133 not on the PP and 199 points for Trochek with 146 not on the PP.

Over 1/3 of all of Mika’s career points have been on the PP; 34%. Trochek is barely above 25%.

There’s virtually no doubt as to which player works harder and does more off the puck and one is specifically positioned to be THE go-to shooter on the PP, which is why this info is relevant, before you spout off about “good players” deserve their PP time. It’s NYR - we all know that’s not how PP time is decided.

You can slice this a lot of ways and keep losing the argument. Mika’s raw points per game is .7933 and Trochek’s is .7213. They’ve both played over 800 NHL games. We’re not comparing Bedard and Celebrini here on some absurdly small sample size before either has reached their prime. It’s a .072 point per game difference. Significantly leas than 1/10th of a point per game.
And why noone persistently repeats that there’s over 30% gap in the salary that should provide proper context to evaluate Trocheck performance relative to 2/3C position while Zibanejad’s $8.5 squarely puts his underperformance this year in unacceptable category?!?!?
 
You will take the chin and like it!
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Both are having down years and Trocheck is the better player NOW. Zib HAD a better career but the last two years have been fairly abysmal. If I had to pick one or the other for next year? Easy. I'm picking Trocheck. And that's not even considering he's 3 million a year cheaper... 5.6 mil for a gritty, faceoff dominant 2/3C isn't bad at all. 8.5 mil isn't good... for whatever Mika is these days. Even if Mika was making 5.5AAV, I'm picking Trocheck.
I get it, you like Zib. Some of the personal attacks on him have been unwarranted. Doesn't change the fact that he's a shadow of the player he was a few years back, and I have zero confidence he's not worse NEXT year.
If Mika was making the same $5.5m at least it would be a somewhat fair comparison but with that gap in salaries??? SMH
 
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And why noone persistently repeats that there’s over 30% gap in the salary that should provide proper context to evaluate Trocheck performance relative to 2/3C position while Zibanejad’s $8.5 squarely puts his underperformance this year in unacceptable category?!?!?

Mika’s like…. really handsome.
 

We can chill with the chin, but I first read his comment as you will take it on the chin (which would have made sense) and then my brain turned it into you will take the chin on the chin, and now that’s the interpretation I choose to stick with. Like him, love him, loathe him… we’ve all gotta just take the chin on the chin because we aren’t trading him by the hairs on our chinny chin chins.
 
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He has 14 actual goals in 78 games. P/60 is a decent tool, but they still play the games for a reason.

If you want to believe Kakko is a low tier 2nd liner, that's your prerogative. I think he's a solid 3rd liner on a good team. Seattle isn't a good team. Regardless, we might be splitting hairs... IMO, he's never going to be an all star, but can be a solid contributor on a contender.

I figure it isn’t even worth splitting hairs. Kakko is the prototypical middle six tweeter aka dime a dozen aka Grabner without skating.
 
I figure it isn’t even worth splitting hairs. Kakko is the prototypical middle six tweeter aka dime a dozen aka Grabner without skating.
I mean middle six identifies someone who is interchangeable between a 2nd & 3rd liner. If someone is adamant about calling him a 2nd liner, it's not a big deal. However if he's on your 2nd line, your team probably isn't very good.
 
I mean middle six identifies someone who is interchangeable between a 2nd & 3rd liner. If someone is adamant about calling him a 2nd liner, it's not a big deal. However if he's on your 2nd line, your team probably isn't very good.

Yeah exactly. I mean, teams have their mainstays and also kinda shuffle like 5-6 of their top 9 players into different roles from game to game, shift to shift. Kakko is one of those 5-6 guys who is anywhere from taking a shift on the first line due to injury or just stagnant lack of production and coach shaking shit up to being a regular third liner. I’d say he will almost certainly average out to being more of a fringe 2/3 liner than ever being a regular top six option for sure. I’m essentially agreeing with you in every human capacity possible. If you aren’t someone like Pastrnak or Matthews or whoever that is 100% always in the top six, you’re essentially a shuffle-able piece. Kakko is generously a middle six tweeter floating in the wind.
 
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I mean middle six identifies someone who is interchangeable between a 2nd & 3rd liner. If someone is adamant about calling him a 2nd liner, it's not a big deal. However if he's on your 2nd line, your team probably isn't very good.
Eh, hockey lines can be incredibly chemistry dependent. Kakko could absolutely be part of a roaring 2nd line. League history is full of pluggers who mesh with the right guys.

Sometimes a Mike Knuble type figures something out and becomes legit on his own, too.
 
I’ve read others and watched videos where they said the opposite, and how his best attribute is by far his hockey IQ rather than his skating or physical tools. Some even said he was slow not just average. I’ll do more research but looking at the two Hagens appears to be the much better skater.

See I haven't seen anything like that. To me Hagens' skating has been decidedly acceptable, but not a major strength of his game. Tbf though, i really don't know what Hagens' strength IS. Nothing really pops for me that I can say ooh, that makes him can't miss.
 
See I haven't seen anything like that. To me Hagens' skating has been decidedly acceptable, but not a major strength of his game. Tbf though, i really don't know what Hagens' strength IS. Nothing really pops for me that I can say ooh, that makes him can't miss.
When watching highlights of Hagens he seems to be a great skater to me but still none of these 3 guys seem like they're going to be absolute superstars. It seems like a pretty weak draft class. I won't pretend I watch much OHL or College Hockey, the only Junior hockey I watch is International tournaments, some MHL, and some WHL. I go to a handful of WHL games per year and usually try to schedule around which notable prospects are playing the Giants in said game. But from the highlights I've seen of Hagens & Misa, Hagens seems to be the better skater in my eyes.

A player who may go where we're currently projected to pick, who's a center is; Jake O'Brien. He looks pretty impressive in highlights I've seen and reports I've read, however he's yet another guy who's not a very good skater lol so he may not be the best fit for our current roster construction but he's who I think I would target at our projected spot.

For Russian deep sleepers... Daniil Prokhorov is very intriguing. A massive 6'6 winger with a lot of flare, throws huge hits and is blazing fast. But he is very raw, definitely a project.
 
When watching highlights of Hagens he seems to be a great skater to me but still none of these 3 guys seem like they're going to be absolute superstars. It seems like a pretty weak draft class. I won't pretend I watch much OHL or College Hockey, the only Junior hockey I watch is International tournaments, some MHL, and some WHL. I go to a handful of WHL games per year and usually try to schedule around which notable prospects are playing the Giants in said game. But from the highlights I've seen of Hagens & Misa, Hagens seems to be the better skater in my eyes.

A player who may go where we're currently projected to pick, who's a center is; Jake O'Brien. He looks pretty impressive in highlights I've seen and reports I've read, however he's yet another guy who's not a very good skater lol so he may not be the best fit for our current roster construction but he's who I think I would target at our projected spot.

For Russian deep sleepers... Daniil Prokhorov is very intriguing. A massive 6'6 winger with a lot of flare, throws huge hits and is blazing fast. But he is very raw, definitely a project.

I make it a point to not listen to your Russian prospect evaluations. Or any evaluations for that matter. Haha

All jokes aside I don't think he is a deep sleeper. He is likely taken in the 2nd or 3rd. And further from that point, i guarantee he is on the Rangers list.
 
Lafreniere + Schneider for Peterka + 2026 2nd
K'Andre Miller + Panarin (3.5 mil retained) for Rossi + 2026 pick
Zib for Stamkos
Kreider for Zadarov

Sign Gavrikov

Cuylle extended
Soucy to AHL or something

Peterka Miller Stamkos
Perreault Rossi Cuylle
Othmann Trocheck Berard
Rempe Carrick Edstrom

Zadarov Fox
Gavrikov Borgen
Jones Vaak
Unrealistic given the quantity of movement you put forth, but I like what you did here.
 
If we're able to add a late first, I'd target Cameron Reid, Cameron Schmidt, or MAYBE Ivan Ryabkin in the 20s. If we hadn't just signed that asinine Shesterkin contract, Ravensbergen would be on my radar too
 
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Also in a development that's pretty surprising to me at least, Central Scouting has Jake O'Brien at 4 for NA Skaters, ahead of Porter Martone and Caleb Desnoyers
 
I wouldn't take Vince's tweet as any sort of indication that we are going to offer sheet someone. We don't have the cap space, for one thing, and for another, we have our own RFA offer-sheet target to worry about.

If Drury gets Cuylle under contract and clears cap space by moving vets, maybe, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Don’t you need all your own picks to even make a serious offer sheet?
 
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