Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

[Ghost of jas]

They need another one, that’s the point.

These wins in games where they get shelled for most of the game are annoying but that will take care of itself in the long run. My only worry is that the FO will fall for the fools gold and do something dumb if they’re even close when the time comes to move people.

Hopefully they stay to the plan. Teams have problems with the patience to follow through when rebuilding. Just look at the Devils last year. What a waste giving up assets for Grabner. They need to deal Hayes and Zuccarello, allow the younger players to continue to develop and add multiple assets in the upcoming draft. @Machinehead is correct in that while, yes, the farm system has greatly improved, it’s nowhere near being where it needs to be. IMO, your top two centers going forward cannot be Zibanejad and Hayes. If you go with Zibanejad, you need a better player than Hayes, and vice-versa. I’m more inclined to go with Zibanejad, as he’s the better player, he’s younger, has more upside and will be cheaper.

 

[Kovalev27]

You can’t control wins and losses right now. The kids are the ones driving the bus. They’re stealing wins. Is it in our best interest? Yes and no. Culture is so important. Winning culture. And yes that’s at the expense of a higher pick. But a game like last night what that did for Chytil is way bigger than losing a meaningless game in November.

There will be a couple of moves. Zucc Hayes McQuaid and probably one of namestnikov/spooner.

We are winning mostly with smoke and mirrors. The ROW number is not an aberration. We aren’t very good. But we’re playing hard and hank not for nothing has been lights out. Will that continue? I highly doubt it. He’s always had his streaks even in his prime.

The games will get much tougher too as the good teams ramp it up. We won’t be able to hang at that point.

I still say we are a bottom 5 team when it’s all said and done. Maybe bottom 7.

The Kings Devils Hawks Sens are realistically probably the only teams really worse than us. The Kings even probably aren’t but no goaltending and that start may be to much to overcome. Maybe Detroit too. We’ll be right in that mix. Enjoy the wins while we get them. There won’t be many.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Kravstov + Panarin + one more guy. Not EK65. That's why I'm big on either getting as many first rounders this year and going for boom/bust (Newhook), or using two of them + assets like Georgiev to trade up and pick someone who is a riser like Kravstov was (Podzolkian sorry if I misspelled his name horribly). Gordie when @Amazing Kreiderman met him said he was at the tournament to see other players than the two Rangers picks. You can be your bottom dollar one was Podz.

As for Howden. My best friend summed him up beautifully in one two sentences. Howden is prime Drury. Knows where to go and always makes the right play.

Find a way to get Podkolzin and one of Newhook/Turcotte, and I think you are good to go.

As for Howden, I love the kid. He seems to have the best aspects of Stepan and Hayes, but he presents different qualities neither Stepan or nor Hayes possess. He may turn out to be a 2C when he’s done developing, but right now, he slots in perfectly as a 3C.

 

[bobbop]

The thing that is helpful is that right now there is only one really bad team (LA) in the league. Unless the Kings decide to rip out the walls, I expect them to make moves to get back on track. Beyond that, there isn't a team in the league throwing in the towel.

That's a good thing for the sport and good for the Rangers. If they are still as committed to a rebuild, the top of the draft won't get away from them. The results are good right now but this isn't a team that is built for an 82 game run. They know it. We know it.

Cream will rise to the top. The history of the first month of the season is littered with shooting star teams who come back to earth (Hello, Montreal) I'm perfectly comfortable that the Rangers can play young players, have some success this year and still finish with a top 5-8 pick in the draft.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Hopefully they stay to the plan. Teams have problems with the patience to follow through when rebuilding. Just look at the Devils last year. What a waste giving up assets for Grabner. They need to deal Hayes and Zuccarello, allow the younger players to continue to develop and add multiple assets in the upcoming draft. @Machinehead is correct in that while, yes, the farm system has greatly improved, it’s nowhere near being where it needs to be. IMO, your top two centers going forward cannot be Zibanejad and Hayes. If you go with Zibanejad, you need a better player than Hayes, and vice-versa. I’m more inclined to go with Zibanejad, as he’s the better player, he’s younger, has more upside and will be cheaper.

What the Devils did with Grabner was about rewarding a core they believe in and beefing up the lineup. Culture and a vote of confidence is important. That was the point of that move. They didn't give up the keys to the franchise. If Rykov is here for a decade and Linblom wins a Conn Smythe, then we can look back and say it was a bad move.

The Devils struggles have nothing to do with the Grabner trade. They literally did nothing in the offseason and hoped that everyones "ratings" improved like in EA Sports franchise mode.

 

[Ghost of jas]

What the Devils did with Grabner was about rewarding a core they believe in and beefing up the lineup. Culture and a vote of confidence is important. That was the point of that move. They didn't give up the keys to the franchise. If Rykov is here for a decade and Linblom wins a Conn Smythe, then we can look back and say it was a bad move.

The Devils struggles have nothing to do with the Grabner trade. They literally did nothing in the offseason and hoped that everyones "ratings" improved like in EA Sports franchise mode.

It’s short-circuiting the process. It’s over-assessing where you really are in the process.

 

[MetalJaws]

I wonder if Hayes and Vesey to Colorado for Ottawas 1st unprotected could work. Seems fair value. Prob is, would they be able to retain them.

Rent Zucc for a couple 2nds and resign him on a discount.

Move McQuaid, Spooner and Smith ASAP.

Pick up Panarin.

Panarin - Zib - Zucc
Kreider - Chytil - Buch
Andersson - Howden - Kravtsov
Names - Boo - Fast

Skjei - ADA
FA/Trade - Pionk
Staal - Shatty
Vet.

Hank
Shesty

Hopefully end up with 3 1sts
2 or 3 2nds

Stock the shelves while also letting the kids play.

 

[Tawnos]

Over the next year, Gorton has some tough decision to make...

Will Hayes be re-signed? Will they go after Panarin? Is Zucc going to be re-signed? Who do you move? Do you consolidate in a trade?

Next year possibles;

LW - Panarin?- Kreider - Names - Vesey

C - Zibs - Hayes - Howden - Chytil - Andersson

RW - Kravstov? - Zucc? - Buch - Fast

That's potentially 13 players for who should be in the top 9

I don't think any of the questions you posed about players are tough decisions. Trade Zuccarello. Trade Hayes. Go after Panarin. Beyond that, explore if anyone is interested in Namestnikov, Spooner, Vesey, Shattenkirk, Smith, or Staal. I'm not saying traded every single one of that latter group, because we need some vets around, but explore dealing all of them.

The big question mark is Kreider.

 

[MetalJaws]

I don't think any of the questions you posed about players are tough decisions. Trade Zuccarello. Trade Hayes. Go after Panarin. Beyond that, explore if anyone is interested in Namestnikov, Spooner, Vesey, Shattenkirk, Smith, or Staal. I'm not saying traded every single one of that latter group, because we need some vets around, but explore dealing all of them.

The big question mark is Kreider.

I like Kreider, I think he would be a really good 2nd line player. If we wee able to sign Panarin, I think he would be in a great place role wise with the NYR. But if Oilers are slipping. I'd trade poolparty and an unprotected 1st for him in a second. Do the same to Colorado for Hayes and Vesey and then we have 3 legitimate shots at a lottery pick or 3 top 10 picks!

I guess it all depends on where we are in Feb. If we're playing well we prob trade no one. But if we're middle of the road or worse. Could be fun

 

[Ola]

Brett Howden. Loving this guy.

You never truly know with prospects but it's very exciting when they make the leap and look like they belong. This is the case with Howden, and we can see why they needed to keep him on the roster. He's great defensively, superb on face-offs, solid in transition, has a good shot, and best attribute is his IQ.

Looking forward to his development.

Most importantly, he is so energetic and competitive. When was the last time we had someone that not only had the work ethic and energy on the ice but also any kind of physical attributes to back it up? Callahan and Dubinsky?

I hope management take notice. We could definitely use a couple of more guys like that too.

 

[Trxjw]

Folks really should let go of the dream of getting Ottawa's pick from the Avs. The only way it ever happens is at the draft when the Avs are sure they've missed out on the guys they want badly. They're not trading a chance at Hughes for anything short of another Hughes type.

The Rangers are a bit lucky right now. Theyll still be picking in the top 6 or 7 and there are some very, very good players in this draft outside of Hughes and Kakko. They're just a bit further away from the NHL.

 

[gravey9]

The Rangers doing well right now could do wonders to vets' trade values. The big test for this team will be after the new year. That's when the better teams start to pick up the pace, raise their level of play. If this team can take their game to that next level as well... well, then they'll be in the playoffs and that may harm the rebuild a bit. If it seems like they are suddenly lagging then we'll see a bit of the sell-off. At which point, being an effective part of a competitive team will allow us to get more value in our vet trades. We'll see.

What I think Gorton should be working on is any kind of trade of a vet ASAP that could bring back a first rounder now. That's a really tall order. But if we can find a way to pry away a #1 from a team like Edmonton then we should do it. We just need to find a team that's middling that has a GM on the hot seat. Edmonton, Boston, etc. This way, if our own #1 pick is a top 15 pick. And if we can pair that with another top 10-15 we can either stay put or move up into top 5-7. We'll see.

 

[Tawnos]

I like Kreider, I think he would be a really good 2nd line player. If we wee able to sign Panarin, I think he would be in a great place role wise with the NYR. But if Oilers are slipping. I'd trade poolparty and an unprotected 1st for him in a second. Do the same to Colorado for Hayes and Vesey and then we have 3 legitimate shots at a lottery pick or 3 top 10 picks!

I guess it all depends on where we are in Feb. If we're playing well we prob trade no one. But if we're middle of the road or worse. Could be fun

I don't think the Rangers are going to hesitate to be sellers regardless of where they are in the standings in February.

 

[Tawnos]

Folks really should let go of the dream of getting Ottawa's pick from the Avs. The only way it ever happens is at the draft when the Avs are sure they've missed out on the guys they want badly. They're not trading a chance at Hughes for anything short of another Hughes type.

The Rangers are a bit lucky right now. Theyll still be picking in the top 6 or 7 and there are some very, very good players in this draft outside of Hughes and Kakko. They're just a bit further away from the NHL.

Or if Ottawa is looking at a playoff position in February. Not likely, but it is possible.

 

[RGY]

I don’t see Andersson or Howden reacting that level. And I’m convinced Chytil needs weary on Zibanejad’s wing . Kravtsov could very well be that player. But they need more.

I think Andersson could be a Scheifele. But who knows still too early to say. But I can see comparisons between those two groups of players.

Yes they still need more and they will get that with more 1st round picks.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I don't think the Rangers are going to hesitate to be sellers regardless of where they are in the standings in February.

Agreed. For starters, they are not potentially going to lose Hayes and Zuccarello for nothing just for another potential one and done playoff run.

It's all about stockpiling assets right now. Look at someone like Howden. He seemed to be an afterthought in that McDonagh/Miller trade and has proven to be a revelation. The more assets the team acquires, the better chance they have of something like that happening.

 

[Tawnos]

Agreed. For starters, they are not potentially going to lose Hayes and Zuccarello for nothing just for another potential one and done playoff run.

It's all about stockpiling assets right now. Look at someone like Howden. He seemed to be an afterthought in that McDonagh/Miller trade and has proven to be a revelation. The more assets the team acquires, the better chance they have of something like that happening.

Not really. To, along with Hajek, he was one of the centerpieces of the deal. I don't know how anyone can consider someone an afterthought when they were a 1st round pick 2 drafts earlier. He's one of the forwards that was continuously brought up as an option from TBL in the discussions about rumors.

If someone thought he was an afterthought, that person was wildly uninformed.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Not really. To me, along with Hajek, he was one of the centerpieces of the deal.

You're a special breed. As someone like myself, who admittedly does not follow other team's prospects particularly closely, I seem to remember many other raving about Hajek. Did not see nearly as much excitement about Howden, at the time.

 

[Nickmo82]

Hayes, Zucc, McQuaid, Smith, Namestnikov, Vesey and Spooner should all be out the door this year. Hayes and Zucc should be dealt at the deadline (obviously), commanding a similar return to the Nash deal (both far better players now than he was then) especially seeing as we can retain salary with no issue. Namestnikov and Vesey both work hard and chip in offensively so should be attractive to a team looking for secondary scoring. The other three? Take whatever you can get and think yourself lucky.

I'd happily listen to offers on Shattenkirk too. It increasingly seems that he is what AV thought Yandle was.

Hopefully we can get a repeat on last year's return of a few high picks and some decent prospects.

Then hope Gary fixes the lottery in our favour.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think Andersson could be a Scheifele. But who knows still too early to say. But I can see comparisons between those two groups of players.

Yes they still need more and they will get that with more 1st round picks.

I don’t foresee an 80 point season Andersson’s future. I think that’s a lot to ask of him.

 

[Tawnos]

You're a special breed. As someone like myself, who admittedly does not follow other team's prospects particularly closely, I seem to remember many other raving about Hajek. Did not see nearly as much excitement about Howden, at the time.

I don't follow other team's prospects at all. As I added to my post... Howden's name was brought up a lot before the trade... along with Stephens and Raddysh among their forward prospects. I only know those names because of all the speculation. A lot of people, in particular, preferred Raddysh... just like a lot of people preferred Foote. And there were a couple of posters who were harping on how good of a prospect Howden really was after we acquired him. Just the fact that he was a 1st round pick in 2016 who wasn't yet 20 should have told you he was a centerpiece of the deal for the Rangers.

 

[Ghost of jas]

You're a special breed. As someone like myself, who admittedly does not follow other team's prospects particularly closely, I seem to remember many other raving about Hajek. Did not see nearly as much excitement about Howden, at the time.

@Edge and @Trxjw were ahead of the curve on Howden. They were the ones who convinced me that Gorton got good value on the deal.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

You're a special breed. As someone like myself, who admittedly does not follow other team's prospects particularly closely, I seem to remember many other raving about Hajek. Did not see nearly as much excitement about Howden, at the time.

I think some were more pissed that the Rangers didn't land Point or Sergachev or whatever delusional package people felt they were going to get.

It seems pretty clear that the PTB were targeting Howden heavily.

 

[Trxjw]

Or if Ottawa is looking at a playoff position in February. Not likely, but it is possible.

Even then I doubt it. They might dangle their own pick if they're in a playoff position but there's too much risk in dealing Ottawa's given how volatile they are.

 

[Tawnos]

I think some were more pissed that the Rangers didn't land Point or Sergachev or whatever delusional package people felt they were going to get.

It seems pretty clear that the PTB were targeting Howden heavily.

Yeah. We knew that the trade was either going to be close to a 1:1 or it was going to be a few parts and that it was most likely to be the latter. We talked a lot about Foote+Raddysh+1, or deals following that structure. Howden's name came up a lot in those discussions.