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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

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Off Sides said:
Here I am bringing up things that actually happened fending off like 3 people who are bringing up stuff that did not happen.

Rangers lost 4-1

They were outscored 15 - 10

Points per game over their whole runs

Kings
Kopitar 1.0
Carter .96
Williams .96
Gaborik .85


Rangers had
Kreider at .87
McD .68
Stepan .63
MSL .60


Compare the runs of every other Cup champ since the salary cap to the Kings, now to the Rangers, other than one of them(again I think it one of the Chicago runs), they all have skaters(plural) who went near (.8 or higher), at 1.0 per game. or even above a point per game played.

Is it really that bad that I want the Rangers to have some group of skaters that would compare to what has been winning the Cup since the salary cap was introduced?

If so, bad on me

If that is a good thing then how do the Rangers get that group?
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Sorry, it wasn't goals scored I was thinking of. What I was thinking of is that LA spent less time playing with a lead than any SC winner in history. It was something like 17% of game time. For a team to do that and win 4 out of 5 is absurd.
 
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Go Away Staal said:
Sacrificing Zucc to Beelzebub
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I agree there too (if you mean turning him into draft picks), If they can turn that into drafting something sort of like the other teams that have won the Cup did, that is part of it as players on entry level cheap contract would be a benefit, yet I don't know if they are going to get in the draft position to do so with the return for him/them. Seems like their own pick has a better chance of possibly doing so with the odds of that happen being worse the higher up they end up in the standings.

Again unless I am underestimating what they have in their prospect pool or am underestimating the chances of them drafting something elite/near elite using picks outside of the ~1st thru 3rd or so overall, I am going to remain concerned that this current team is actually too good, and some other teams too bad for them to ever break the cycle. Then again I am a mean guy who wants to see them as a cup contending team that has a roster that more closely matches what the teams that have been winning the cups had/have.
 
Tawnos said:
Sorry, it wasn't goals scored I was thinking of. What I was thinking of is that LA spent less time playing with a lead than any SC winner in history. It was something like 17% of game time. For a team to do that and win 4 out of 5 is absurd.
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They won 3 series in a row in 7 games, and won 3 OT games in the cup final series.

I mean it's cool and historic, but that's hardly the model I would look at and be like THAT is our model.

There were very clearly not leaps and bounds better than everyone.
 
Off Sides said:
Yes I saw a team that got out to early leads, and could not hold on to them even with their goalie playing as well as he did. The Kings skaters turned those game to their advantage because they performed better than the Rangers skaters.

I don't see how this roster is not a superior statistical roster to the next one.

My point is the same as it was when this started, the Rangers are going to need some group of players that can do what the Kings roster did in those playoffs, if history is a guide, since the salary cap, other than the one year Chicago won for, I think their 2nd or 3rd time every roster than has won has had some group of players that matches up more so with that Kings roster than to what the Rangers had.



NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats
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I think you’re arguing the point that the Kings won.

No one is disputing the Kings won.

The disagreement is with your assertion the Rangers were overwhelmed.

I don’t think the Rangers were overwhelmed. They lost.

Those two are not inherently the same thing.

Overwhelmed to me is saying the team was blown away and never stood a chance.

To that end, I saw a team that could’ve won, but did not win. Whether it was because they didn’t execute, or made mistakes, or weren’t healthy, they lost.

But I did not see a team that looked overwhelmed.
 
Does the wording I used really matter?

And I said the Rangers skaters were overwhelmed compared to the Kings skaters.

Lundqvist faced 194 shots on goal, Quick 146

~10 more shots on goal per game average.

I am sure score effect had something to do with it, but if that score effect resulted in them coming back and winning...


I have always viewed the Rangers being eliminated different than most I guess. I see teams that have former very early picks putting up points, beating Lundqvist eventually, The Rangers as mostly scoring thru creating high danger scoring chances usually off the rush until they ran into something that counters it or another team who just had more talent to play a similar style better than they did.

At no point did I perceive their roster of skaters as better or even equal to that of the teams that eliminated them, except perhaps the Devils, and I think that was the reason they never won the Cup. Mostly I just would like to see them avoid a similar issue going forward because some teams out there have really good skaters either already just breaking into the NHL or on their way.
 
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Would anyone trade Namestnikov for Valentin Zykov from the Hurricanes? 23 y/o LW righty shot decent size at 6'1 224. Really liked him when the Kings drafted him in 2013. He looked really good late last year with 7 points in 10 games but has struggled this year with only 3 points in 13 games. I think I'd pull the trigger.
 
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Off Sides said:
Does the wording I used really matter?

And I said the Rangers skaters were overwhelmed compared to the Kings skaters.

Lundqvist faced 194 shots on goal, Quick 146

~10 more shots on goal per game average.

I am sure score effect had something to do with it, but if that score effect resulted in them coming back and winning...


I have always viewed the Rangers being eliminated different than most I guess. I see teams that have former very early picks putting up points, beating Lundqvist eventually, The Rangers as mostly scoring thru creating high danger scoring chances usually off the rush until they ran into something that counters it or another team who just had more talent to play a similar style better than they did.

At no point did I perceive their roster of skaters as better or even equal to that of the teams that eliminated them, except perhaps the Devils, and I think that was the reason they never won the Cup. Mostly I just would like to see them avoid a similar issue going forward because some teams out there have really good skaters either already just breaking into the NHL or on their way.
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I will say this much, I think they’ll have substantially more young talent than they did heading into that last window.

That’s not saying that some of them most likely won’t be packaged at some point for help elsewhere, but I think they’ll have more to work with.

We’re talking about the possibility of having 6-9 first round picks between 2017-2019.

That definitely buys you some chips for the game.
 
StaalsXpensiveCTDigs said:
Would anyone trade Namestnikov for Valentin Zykov from the Hurricanes? 23 y/o LW righty shot decent size at 6'1 224. Really liked him when the Kings drafted him in 2013. He looked really good late last year with 7 points in 10 games but has struggled this year with only 3 points in 13 games. I think I'd pull the trigger.
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For sure.

Would Carolina though?

I'm still pushing for Zucc for Zykov and Fox.
 
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StaalsXpensiveCTDigs said:
Would anyone trade Namestnikov for Valentin Zykov from the Hurricanes? 23 y/o LW righty shot decent size at 6'1 224. Really liked him when the Kings drafted him in 2013. He looked really good late last year with 7 points in 10 games but has struggled this year with only 3 points in 13 games. I think I'd pull the trigger.
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No, I wouldn't. Mostly because if we're trading Namestnikov, it should be for real futures, and a 23-year old winger struggling in the NHL doesn't really qualify. Let's not forget that Namestnikov is only 25 himself, soon 26... 2.5 years older than Zykov.
 
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StaalsXpensiveCTDigs said:
Would anyone trade Namestnikov for Valentin Zykov from the Hurricanes? 23 y/o LW righty shot decent size at 6'1 224. Really liked him when the Kings drafted him in 2013. He looked really good late last year with 7 points in 10 games but has struggled this year with only 3 points in 13 games. I think I'd pull the trigger.
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no i feel like thats a trade for the sake of trading players, give me a young b level prospect and a pick
 
We need to Find the right younger players for our older expendable assets matching other teams needs. Not exactly rocket science - but not written in stone either.
 
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BBKers said:
We need to Find the right younger players for our older expendable assets matching other teams needs. Not exactly rocket science - but not written in stone either.
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Do you know who we would be interested currently if we did decide to make a minor move?
 
So, how close is the one-two Mika Zibanejad-Kevin Hayes tandem to the Derek Stepan-Derick Brassard 1A/1B combination down the middle, and how much room for growth is there in the two centers?

More to the point, Hayes has been the Rangers’ best player — the Swedish goaltender, aside — since the start of last season. And the Blueshirts are going to flip him for a late first-rounder and a prospect rather than signing him to a long-term extension? I don’t think so.
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https://nypost.com/2018/11/07/rangers-changing-soft-rep-that-defined-and-still-irks-old-timers/

The Rangers are really going to sign Hayes for the next 5-6-7 years?

Elloitte Friedman reported the Rangers have already made the decision to not re-sign Hayes.
 
RGY said:
Would hate to see this thread should we win friday making it 5 in a row...RB may finally step off the ledge
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The Rangers need to go for it. Trade everyone to give Henrik his Cup. That's what you want to do. A few weeks ago, you were talking about the Rangers trading for Karlsson.

We need more discussion on this board about the Rangers almost winning the Cup in 2014. Unfortunately, they don't hand out trophies for that. Maybe the Rangers can raise a Stanley Cup finalist banner from 2013-14.

I want the Rangers to build a team which can win a championship. A team which will be a top contender for the next 6-7-8 years and a team which can win a few Cups in that period. Not one of these teams which challenges and always falls short.

The Rangers played the most playoff games from 2011-12 to 2014-15. Brooks always mentions that. As Derrick Coleman once said "Whoop-de-damn-do".
 
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Trxjw said:
Brooks isn't handling the swings of the rebuild very well.
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Brooks acts like the Rangers won a Cup with Stepan and Brassard as their top two centers.

Brooks was on Craig Custance's podcast in early August. He wants no part of a rebuild. He doesn't want to cover a bad hockey team.
 
Lots of uncertainty built into that list of five centers. Career ending injuries, busting, moves to wing, ect.

My feelings on a Hayes extension really depend on the asking price, and the deadline offering price. The kind of deal they gave Zibanejad seems like a decent metric.
 
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RangerBoy said:
Zibanejad
Hayes
Howden
Andersson
Chytil
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You cant move players to the wing? You can never have enough centers.
Besides let's say we extend hayes 4/5 years and we decide to move him when Andersson Chytil Howden are truly ready, wouldn't that make him more valuable than as a rental at the deadline
 
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