Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[NYR Viper]

I’ll keep beating this drum. Drury has the unique ability to pull the plug probably a year early and recoup A LOT of assets to push this team in to the next phase of their contention. Yes, you read that right, contention. If he chooses to trade Smith, Kreider, Panarin, Lindgren, Vesey and Borgen, he’s likely recouping a mountain of assets. That’s before the opportunity to trade someone like Miller if they’re considering it.

Most bad teams are locked in to their roster or have few pieces to truly sell. Drury is actually in a good spot if he decides to go this direction and dismantle this roster. Based on the trade of Kakko and Trouba already, it appears as though he’s made his direction known.

Clear the decks, gain flexibility in terms of cap space and roster spots and use those assets to either backfill the depth in the system or make the proper splash in a trade should someone become available who fits the needs of the team.

 

[McRanger92]

This board is always blindsided by the value the team gets back in trades because many are too busy in fantasyland dreaming up Shesterkin and Fox trades. They arent rebuilding in that way. I have no insider knowledge, I just have common sense.

 

[McRanger92]

I’ll keep beating this drum. Drury has the unique ability to pull the plug probably a year early and recoup A LOT of assets to push this team in to the next phase of their contention. Yes, you read that right, contention. If he chooses to trade Smith, Kreider, Panarin, Lindgren, Vesey and Borgen, he’s likely recouping a mountain of assets. That’s before the opportunity to trade someone like Miller if they’re considering it.

Most bad teams are locked in to their roster or have few pieces to truly sell. Drury is actually in a good spot if he decides to go this direction and dismantle this roster. Based on the trade of Kakko and Trouba already, it appears as though he’s made his direction known.

Clear the decks, gain flexibility in terms of cap space and roster spots and use those assets to either backfill the depth in the system or make the proper splash in a trade should someone become available who fits the needs of the team.

Drury also has a ton of cap space available for the deadline. It gives the Rangers the flexibility to add multiple players with salary left, if they want to turn the 2nd-5th round picks they get for Vesey/Lindgren/Smith/Borgen, it players that will help us next year.

I think Kreider is going to go in some kind of hockey trade, shakeup move. Move out his salary and take on a player or 2 with money to help out the acquiring team. K'Andre Miller I'd be very open to moving as well. He could be the main piece in a JTM or Zegres deal for example.

 

[UnSandvich]

I am so sick of hearing about lindgren. The guy was out for almost a month and fox was just as bad then. People act like fox is elite, he isn't. Elite players don't need excuses, they are the reason their teams are still good. There are plenty of elite players in the league playing with undermanned lineup or less than ideal linemates/partners. It's amazing the excuses people make around here for certain players...

Fox and Lindgren (266:33 total 5v5 TOI)
Shots: 125 Shots For (28.14 per 60), 121 Shots Against (27.24 per 60), SF% 50.81%
Goals: 7 Goals For (1.58 per 60), 10 Goals Against (2.25 per 60), GF% 41.18%
xGoals: 11.72 xG For (2.64 per 60), 12.51 xG Against (2.82 per 60), xGF% 48.38%

Fox and Miller (254:56 total 5v5 TOI)
Shots: 151 Shots For (35.54 per 60), 98 Shots Against (23.06 per 60), SF% 60.64%
Goals: 14 Goals For (3.29 per 60), 8 Goals Against (1.88 per 60), GF% 63.64%
xGoals: 15.77 xG For (3.71 per 60), 9.11 xG Against (2.14 per 60), xGF% 63.38%

Among D Pairs with at least 250 min 5v5 TOI, Miller-Fox ranks
3rd in SF%
7th in GF%
1st in xGF%

Objective, empirical evidence says, no Fox was not bad without Lindgren. Fox was and is elite, his numbers are just depreciated with a non-NHLer as a partner. It's not a Fox problem, it's a problem with your eye test.

 

[McRanger92]

Fox and Lindgren (266:33 total 5v5 TOI)
Shots: 125 Shots For (28.14 per 60), 121 Shots Against (27.24 per 60), SF% 50.81%
Goals: 7 Goals For (1.58 per 60), 10 Goals Against (2.25 per 60), GF% 41.18%
xGoals: 11.72 xG For (2.64 per 60), 12.51 xG Against (2.82 per 60), xGF% 48.38%

Fox and Miller (254:56 total 5v5 TOI)
Shots: 151 Shots For (35.54 per 60), 98 Shots Against (23.06 per 60), SF% 60.64%
Goals: 14 Goals For (3.29 per 60), 8 Goals Against (1.88 per 60), GF% 63.64%
xGoals: 15.77 xG For (3.71 per 60), 9.11 xG Against (2.14 per 60), xGF% 63.38%

Among D Pairs with at least 250 min 5v5 TOI, Miller-Fox ranks
3rd in SF%
7th in GF%
1st in xGF%

Objective, empirical evidence says, no Fox was not bad without Lindgren. Fox was and is elite, his numbers are just depreciated with a non-NHLer as a partner. It's not a Fox problem, it's a problem with your eye test.

Im a dyed in the wool eye test guy, and you need new eyes if you don't think Lindgren is holding Fox back. Even in the intangible stuff. Hischier is taking runs at Fox yesterday because Lindgren is too busy getting roughed up by Stefan Noesen. This is what happens when you have no size on the back end. No to mention, opposing teams swarm Fox and Panarin when they have the puck in the offensive zone, and leave Lindgren wide open because he can't skate, shoot or pass. And they know that's their best chance to get the puck back.

 

[RangerBoy]

I am concerned about the Rangers getting value back for Kreider. He looks awful. He is 33 going on 43.

15 team NTC list. 7 Canadian teams. Columbus. Buffalo. Utah. Anaheim. SJ. 12 teams. Need 3 more. Chicago? Detroit? Probably. 14. Need one more. 16 teams which he can be traded to. Six division teams are most likely not the list. Islanders. Jersey. Philly. Pittsburgh. Washington. Carolina. 10 other teams. LA? Vegas? Seattle? Colorado? Dallas? Minnesota? Nashville? St.Louis? Boston? Florida? TB? That's 11. One of the these teams in on the list.

I was watching some of Washington-Boston last night. The Caps? Boston would do it. Money is an issue. Probably. Washington can use Kreider. Division team. The Caps are into LTIR. The Rangers take Mangiapane's $5.8M and flip him at the deadline. Carolina? Dundon likes signed players and Kreider burned them last season. The other 4 division teams. No. The Florida teams would take him. Money is tight for them. Vegas is always making moves. Would Nashville take him? Trotz isn't breaking up that team. They are starting to play better. Beat the Rangers, LA and Carolina. Josi is back. Nashville has three first round picks in June. LA? They have a good group of forwards. Seattle isn't a playoff team. The Rangers already made a trade with Francis. Dallas has the Seguin money. Colorado? They have some LTIR money. No first round pick in 2025. The Rangers would take a 2026 1st. The Blues aren't a playoff team and they want to dump Saad. The Blues do have the two young players taken late in the first round in 2023. They wanted to trade those picks for a player. The Blues couldn't find a deal. Stenberg and Lindstein. No thanks. Swedes. They will complain about the AHL like Andersson and Lundkvist.

The Rangers need a first pick in the deal. It's not an easy trade. 15 team list. I don't see Kreider doing the Rangers any favors and waiving for Buffalo which can use more veterans. If you look at all of the teams, the options are somewhat limited.

Fox and Lindgren (266:33 total 5v5 TOI)
Shots: 125 Shots For (28.14 per 60), 121 Shots Against (27.24 per 60), SF% 50.81%
Goals: 7 Goals For (1.58 per 60), 10 Goals Against (2.25 per 60), GF% 41.18%
xGoals: 11.72 xG For (2.64 per 60), 12.51 xG Against (2.82 per 60), xGF% 48.38%

Fox and Miller (254:56 total 5v5 TOI)
Shots: 151 Shots For (35.54 per 60), 98 Shots Against (23.06 per 60), SF% 60.64%
Goals: 14 Goals For (3.29 per 60), 8 Goals Against (1.88 per 60), GF% 63.64%
xGoals: 15.77 xG For (3.71 per 60), 9.11 xG Against (2.14 per 60), xGF% 63.38%

Among D Pairs with at least 250 min 5v5 TOI, Miller-Fox ranks
3rd in SF%
7th in GF%
1st in xGF%

Objective, empirical evidence says, no Fox was not bad without Lindgren. Fox was and is elite, his numbers are just depreciated with a non-NHLer as a partner. It's not a Fox problem, it's a problem with your eye test.

"Elite" offensive D with one ENG. You can take all of these numbers and throw them into the blender. The numbers say Kakko is a better player than his actual production.

 

[eco's bones]

The team has lost faith in itself and these things can snowball. We don't need to move everyone but we should move some of them with an idea of rebounding at least to some degree next year. Igor, Lafreniere, Cuylle, Fox, Schneider are all staying. I suspect Trocheck and Miller are staying. Jones might stay just because we won't get enough back for him. Chytil? could stay or go. I expect Smith, Lindgren and Borgen to be moved before or at the deadline. I expect Kreider will move too. The Rangers will make a decision then on Vaakanainen. The tough one to move will be Zibanejad but the Rangers are going to really try. Edstrom stays. Rempe stays. Carrick, Brodzinski or Vesey? Don't know. Depends.

Get ready for the Rangers to go big game hunting when free agency opens in July. If guys like Rantanen, Marner, Bennett, Ehlers, Bowser, Provorov, Chychrun hit the market the Rangers are going to be after some and probably some lesser players too. For instance Mathieu Olivier might be a nice pickup.

 

[McRanger92]

I am concerned about the Rangers getting value back for Kreider. He looks awful. He is 33 going on 43.

15 team NTC list. 7 Canadian teams. Columbus. Buffalo. Utah. Anaheim. SJ. 12 teams. Need 3 more. Chicago? Detroit? Probably. 14. Need one more. 16 teams which he can be traded to. Six division teams are most likely not the list. Islanders. Jersey. Philly. Pittsburgh. Washington. Carolina. 10 other teams. LA? Vegas? Seattle? Colorado? Dallas? Minnesota? Nashville? St.Louis? Boston? Florida? TB? That's 11. One of the these teams in on the list.

I was watching some of Washington-Boston last night. The Caps? Boston would do it. Money is an issue. Probably. Washington can use Kreider. Division team. The Caps are into LTIR. The Rangers take Mangiapane's $5.8M and flip him at the deadline. Carolina? Dundon likes signed players and Kreider burned them last season. The other 4 division teams. No. The Florida teams would take him. Money is tight for them. Vegas is always making moves. Would Nashville take him? Trotz isn't breaking up that team. They are starting to play better. Beat the Rangers, LA and Carolina. Josi is back. Nashville has three first round picks in June. LA? They have a good group of forwards. Seattle isn't a playoff team. The Rangers already made a trade with Francis. Dallas has the Seguin money. Colorado? They have some LTIR money. No first round pick in 2025. The Rangers would take a 2026 1st. The Blues aren't a playoff team and they want to dump Saad. The Blues do have the two young players taken late in the first round in 2023. They wanted to trade those picks for a player. The Blues couldn't find a deal. Stenberg and Lindstein. No thanks. Swedes. They will complain about the AHL like Andersson and Lundkvist.

The Rangers need a first pick in the deal. It's not an easy trade. 15 team list. I don't see Kreider doing the Rangers any favors and waiving for Buffalo which can use more veterans. If you look at all of the teams, the options are somewhat limited.


"Elite" offensive D with one ENG. You can take all of these numbers and throw them into the blender. The numbers say Kakko is a better player than his actual production.

Kreider is the exact type of guy every contender wants at the trade deadline. Would Drury be willing to retain? I dont know if that's smart to have dead money on the books for the next 2 season when you're expecting to be competitive. Which they will be. At a certain point I'd be content with a 1st rounder and a prospect, just to clear out the roster spot & salary. We'll be better by default giving more ice time to Cuylle and Lafreniere (and Othmann).

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I am concerned about the Rangers getting value back for Kreider. He looks awful. He is 33 going on 43.

15 team NTC list. 7 Canadian teams. Columbus. Buffalo. Utah. Anaheim. SJ. 12 teams. Need 3 more. Chicago? Detroit? Probably. 14. Need one more. 16 teams which he can be traded to. Six division teams are most likely not the list. Islanders. Jersey. Philly. Pittsburgh. Washington. Carolina. 10 other teams. LA? Vegas? Seattle? Colorado? Dallas? Minnesota? Nashville? St.Louis? Boston? Florida? TB? That's 11. One of the these teams in on the list.

I was watching some of Washington-Boston last night. The Caps? Boston would do it. Money is an issue. Probably. Washington can use Kreider. Division team. The Caps are into LTIR. The Rangers take Mangiapane's $5.8M and flip him at the deadline. Carolina? Dundon likes signed players and Kreider burned them last season. The other 4 division teams. No. The Florida teams would take him. Money is tight for them. Vegas is always making moves. Would Nashville take him? Trotz isn't breaking up that team. They are starting to play better. Beat the Rangers, LA and Carolina. Josi is back. Nashville has three first round picks in June. LA? They have a good group of forwards. Seattle isn't a playoff team. The Rangers already made a trade with Francis. Dallas has the Seguin money. Colorado? They have some LTIR money. No first round pick in 2025. The Rangers would take a 2026 1st. The Blues aren't a playoff team and they want to dump Saad. The Blues do have the two young players taken late in the first round in 2023. They wanted to trade those picks for a player. The Blues couldn't find a deal. Stenberg and Lindstein. No thanks. Swedes. They will complain about the AHL like Andersson and Lundkvist.

The Rangers need a first pick in the deal. It's not an easy trade. 15 team list. I don't see Kreider doing the Rangers any favors and waiving for Buffalo which can use more veterans. If you look at all of the teams, the options are somewhat limited.


"Elite" offensive D with one ENG. You can take all of these numbers and throw them into the blender. The numbers say Kakko is a better player than his actual production.

I'd trade Country Club Kreider for a bag of pucks at this point. The sooner the country club shit is shipped out the sooner the team can hopefully become respectable again and a good core of leadership can come into place who acutally care. Get Callahan as an assistant coach to teach the young players what leadership is about on the ice.

 

[McRanger92]

I'd trade Country Club Kreider for a bag of pucks at this point. The more the country club shit is shipped out the sooner the team can hopefully become respectable again and a good core of leadership can come into place who acutally care. Get Callahan as an assistant coach to teach the young players what leadership is about on the ice.

They need foxhole guy's among the core of this team. If Kreider and Zibanejad were in a foxhole with you, they'd be looking for the iPad.

 

[cheech70]

 

[makdeniss]

not sure if somebody brought it up already, but does any sane player even want to go NYR knowing what the current GM is capable of…

 

[IDvsEGO]

not sure if somebody brought it up already, but does any sane player even want to go NYR knowing what the current GM is capable of…

That argument doesn't fly. People are signing and moving to Vegas.
and that was before they won the cup. The players know what theyre signing up for in the league, and if they want trade protection they'll push for trade protection.

 

[makdeniss]

That argument doesn't fly. People are signing and moving to Vegas.
and that was before they won the cup. The players know what theyre signing up for in the league, and if they want trade protection they'll push for trade protection.

yeah but you are potentially coming into a team where everybody has a problem with management and doesn’t want to play. How would you fit? What does it mean for your career? I would really think twice about moving here now…

 

[IDvsEGO]

yeah but you are potentially coming into a team where everybody has a problem with management and doesn’t want to play. How would you fit? What does it mean for your career? I would really think twice about moving here now…

everybody sounds really overexaggerated. The malcontents will be soon enough, and that fixes things.

 

[McRanger92]

yeah but you are potentially coming into a team where everybody has a problem with management and doesn’t want to play. How would you fit? What does it mean for your career? I would really think twice about moving here now…

Everyone has a problem with management? Tell that to Lafreniere and Igor who just signed below market extensions. Just because the Rangers have a few overpaid entitled players (and the fans can't get over Pavel Buchnevich) doesnt mean Drury is actually Satan.

 

[makdeniss]

I am thinking that this may be the reason why we didn’t see anything major up till now. Not many want to move in here.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I am thinking that this may be the reason why we didn’t see anything major up till now. Not many want to move in here.

Were on the roster freeze now. Kreider being a healthy scratch is the first step.

 

[makdeniss]

Everyone has a problem with management? Tell that to Lafreniere and Igor who just signed below market extensions. Just because the Rangers have a few overpaid entitled players (and the fans can't get over Pavel Buchnevich) doesnt mean Drury is actually Satan.

how was it determined that it is below market? By us Ranger fans?

Were on the roster freeze now. Kreider being a healthy scratch is the first step.

yeah but the message by our GM was sent earlier…

 

[Vitto79]

I’ll keep beating this drum. Drury has the unique ability to pull the plug probably a year early and recoup A LOT of assets to push this team in to the next phase of their contention. Yes, you read that right, contention. If he chooses to trade Smith, Kreider, Panarin, Lindgren, Vesey and Borgen, he’s likely recouping a mountain of assets. That’s before the opportunity to trade someone like Miller if they’re considering it.

Most bad teams are locked in to their roster or have few pieces to truly sell. Drury is actually in a good spot if he decides to go this direction and dismantle this roster. Based on the trade of Kakko and Trouba already, it appears as though he’s made his direction known.

Clear the decks, gain flexibility in terms of cap space and roster spots and use those assets to either backfill the depth in the system or make the proper splash in a trade should someone become available who fits the needs of the team.

I do agree if they go that route they can obtain alot of picks , prospects and cap space

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I know of all the players the fan base would like to move, Panarin would be towards the bottom. Though man, with a bit of retention the value he'd bring back.

Something to Jumpstart the rebuild/retool/re-whatever you want to call it.

 

[egelband]

Everyone has a problem with management? Tell that to Lafreniere and Igor who just signed below market extensions. Just because the Rangers have a few overpaid entitled players (and the fans can't get over Pavel Buchnevich) doesnt mean Drury is actually Satan.

Yeah. Seems to be really just Trouba, Goodrow, Mika, Kreider. Only one of whom was actually good recently.
When a player objectively plays poorly and reacts defensively to negative feedback, that player is entitled and selfish.
Not sure there’s much we’re missing. Even if Drury is ham fisted the players need to shape up or ship out. We go through this every time these guys kill a coach.

 

[lakeshirts37]

I hated that trade so much. I know we all harp about the Buch trade, but trading Miller for essentially nothing was so awful.

He’s kind of a jerk, but I wonder if that’s not the worst thing in the world for this team right now, and might be what Drury wants.

It was an awful trade at the time and got worse every year afterwards.

 

[GAGLine]

"Elite" offensive D with one ENG.

Fox had 17 goals last season, 12 goals the year prior, and 11 goals the year before that.

This year, he has scored 1, had 1 goal called back, and he's shooting 1.8%.

Fox could be traded in the right deal, but come on, he's still every bit the offensive player he has been since coming into the league. Defensively he hasn't been as good, but no one on the team has. It's hard to judge any individual player when no one appears to be playing with any sort of cohesive structure.

Fox's size isn't an issue if we surround him with bigger players who can actually defend. If we could employ an actual defensive system, everyone might perform better.

 

[MrAlmost]

The more I look, the more dallas makes sense. They have 5 leftys right now. Kreider and Borgen fit well. Take back Dumba for salary. Retain 50% on Borgen. That should be enought to get you their 1st and 2 other good pieces. Maybe Bichsel? Bourque? Both?

Lindgren, Vesey, Smith(who is good but UFA), Mika get you a ton. Maybe the Z for JT thing happens. JT is a bigger prick then BT, but it ain't working like this anymore, so time for some new stew.

I imagine Borgen, Lindgren and Smith will be the 3 retention players. Some good value there.

I like Lohrei from Boston. Make that happen.

Panarin might want out. If he does, you gotta ask Igor if he wants out too. I dont think they do so they likely stay.

Panarin-Tro-Laf
Cuylle-Chytil-Othmann
Ed-Brod-Berard
Belzile-Carrick-Rempe

Miller-Fox
Jones-Schneider
Vaak-Mancini

That's without any adds from the trades. I would trade Chytil first thing. Need a real center. Chytil isn't durable enough. I've been thinking about swap for Casey Middelstadt might work for both teams. Signed for the same amount of time but Col saves money to sign Rantanen.