Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[LiveLongandProspal]

Why is Chris Drury still employed? I get that it's almost Christmas, but to be fair, Drury is a Krampus believer.

 

[McRanger92]

We also know his issues, they aren't going to get any better when he turns 27 in a couple months. This is supposed to be his prime, he is regressing. His skating is going to continue to get worse and his already as strong as a pool noodle. This isn't going to get any better and this summer is your last chance to move on until the nmc kicks in.

He will quickly be back to the player he was with a big minute eating defenseman next to him. Not make a wish Lindgren. Fox has been overplayed for years by this organization. He's got no help.

 

[NYR Viper]

The problem here is that I highly doubt Drury is looking for futures. He might've convinced Dolan not to fire him now, but he's not going into another rebuild and still be in charge of this thing lol.

This doesn’t declare a rebuild though. It’s like selling your used car for $20k and then buying a $50k replacement a month later when you see one you like

 

[McRanger92]

Dallas

Love it. Would add exorbitantly to get Harley or Biaschel to pair with Fox. Even Lindell who is older but a really good player in my viewings of him. Tons of playoff experience.

 

[Trxjw]

This is what I mean by using cap space as a weapon:

Dallas wants to go for it this year and next. They just signed Dumba who hasn’t worked out at all. $3.5m for this year and next.

Kreider af $3.5m cap hit for this year and next for Dumba + Bourque + DAL 1st ‘25 + DAL 1st ‘26

It’s an even cap swap for Dallas. The Rangers take on Dumba and gain 2 1st’s

You're absolutely correct that the team should be leveraging their pockets. That's something they really failed to do the last time around when they started off on their quasi-rebuild.

I think Dallas makes a lot of sense for Kreider. They need help on the power play and seem to be missing what Pavelski brought to the table. That being said, I don't think you're getting that kind of package from them.

 

[McRanger92]

How about the BJs for Kreider (or anyone for that matter)? Las place team, what would they want for Werenski? Nash and Davidson could maybe sell Kreider or Mika on it. Throw in Miller or Schneider, we know they covet those guys. We're spinning our wheels with this roster.

 

[Tob]

Watch Stevie get fired post Christmas and we fired jury and hire Stevie

 

[McRanger92]

Watch Stevie get fired post Christmas and we fired jury and hire Stevie

The Yzerplan? Please no

 

[bernmeister]

The problem here is that I highly doubt Drury is looking for futures. He might've convinced Dolan not to fire him now, but he's not going into another rebuild and still be in charge of this thing lol.

eff hum then'
no tinkering is gonna save this group
almost full rebuild is in order
CAPITULATE DRURY

 

[NickyFotiu]

The thing is though, the roster isn't really that "old"
The oldest in the top 6 (at the beginning of the season) are panarin, smith, and ck at 33.
Mika is 31
Trocheck is 31

We had multiple players in our top 9 in their early 20's (upside of their development curve)

Our defense the oldest player was again Trouba at 30.
Multiple players in their early 20s.

Mika's slide down at 30/31 is insane.
Ck's slide down at 33 is still crazy fast considering his numbers last year and especially 2 years ago.

Mika's numbers when he signed that deal were fundamentally very strong. It was both even strength production and PP production.
Ck's 50+ goal season was an aberration but still was a solid year even with accounting for the pp anomaly.

I get that the discussion is on the team being old, but the theory was ( and it was sound) that they had another year, and then you could slowly build younger pieces, you would be able to have younger players slowly fill in rolls, and Mika might slow down, but playing with high end wingers could keep him generating.

The depth wasn't needed if the team didn't somehow drop off a massive cliff, which no one expected.

Sometimes the drops are really sudden. I remember Espo and Marcel Dionne dropping really fast early in their last seasons but they were older.

 

[GAGLine]

Watch Stevie get fired post Christmas and we fired jury and hire Stevie

The Drury is out?

 

[McRanger92]

The Drury is out?

At this point I don’t care if they fire everybody as long as they are decisive going forward.

 

[Trxjw]

I'd love to believe that the Rangers were going to step back and actually try their hand at a legitimate rebuild, but I don't see that on the table. Not with Fox and Igor locked up into their mid-to-late 30's. You're not going to move Igor at this point and unless a team like Dallas comes forward and makes a Godfather type offer to land a partner for Heiskanen, Fox is staying put.

Nothing about what Drury does leading up to the deadline should be focused specifically on the 24-25 season. It should be about putting the org in the best position for next season and beyond. Adding futures doesn't help the team right now but maybe it helps the team at the draft when they're sitting with the 6th overall pick and they want to move up for Hagens. Or maybe they go in a deal to land the next Sergachev who hits the market.

Not every trade has to improve the team today. You don't have to spend the cap space immediately in free agency. Maybe you'll find yourself in a position to help a team out like San Jose did with Walman.

Whatever they do, they need to figure out what kind of team this is going to be. The vets are checked out. Every time the kids take a step forward and claw the team back into a game, they watch as the veterans squander the opportunity. They need to go and they need to figure out what the 25-26 Rangers are going to look like.

 

[bernmeister]

I'd love to believe that the Rangers were going to step back and actually try their hand at a legitimate rebuild, but I don't see that on the table. Not with Fox and Igor locked up into their mid-to-late 30's. You're not going to move Igor at this point and unless a team like Dallas comes forward and makes a Godfather type offer to land a partner for Heiskanen, Fox is staying put.

Fox to OTT

 

[McRanger92]

I'd love to believe that the Rangers were going to step back and actually try their hand at a legitimate rebuild, but I don't see that on the table. Not with Fox and Igor locked up into their mid-to-late 30's. You're not going to move Igor at this point and unless a team like Dallas comes forward and makes a Godfather type offer to land a partner for Heiskanen, Fox is staying put.

Nothing about what Drury does leading up to the deadline should be focused specifically on the 24-25 season. It should be about putting the org in the best position for next season and beyond. Adding futures doesn't help the team right now but maybe it helps the team at the draft when they're sitting with the 6th overall pick and they want to move up for Hagens. Or maybe they go in a deal to land the next Sergachev who hits the market.

Not every trade has to improve the team today. You don't have to spend the cap space immediately in free agency. Maybe you'll find yourself in a position to help a team out like San Jose did with Walman.

Whatever they do, they need to figure out what kind of team this is going to be. The vets are checked out. Every time the kids take a step forward and claw the team back into a game, they watch as the veterans squander the opportunity. They need to go and they need to figure out what the 25-26 Rangers are going to look like.

Needs to be multiple in season changes to the veteran core. Laviolette I’m fine with firing, he’s a stiff back there. At minimum fire Housley. Drury has next missed the playoffs as GM of the team. I don’t think he’s paying the price in season. Dolan is watching this though. Devils are running up the score on social media.

 

[Trxjw]

Needs to be multiple in season changes to the veteran core. Laviolette I’m fine with firing, he’s a stiff back there. At minimum fire Housley. Drury has next missed the playoffs as GM of the team. I don’t think he’s paying the price in season. Dolan is watching this though. Devils are running up the score on social media.

I do think the team should work on moving veteran players out before the deadline. Kreider should go. Lindgren should go. Smith should go. I would see if Panarin is open to giving a list of teams he'd go to. I'd keep Trocheck for the time being. I highly doubt the Mika situation is going to be resolved this season. Maybe in the summer.

I'd also keep an eye on opportunities to add guys under 25 who are struggling with their current team. Zegras should be a guy they look at. Yes, he's an absolute mess in his own end but he can actually carry the puck into the zone and has swagger in his game. You can build around those attributes and mitigate his weaknesses.

 

[McRanger92]

I do think the team should work on moving veteran players out before the deadline. Kreider should go. Lindgren should go. Smith should go. I would see if Panarin is open to giving a list of teams he'd go to. I'd keep Trocheck for the time being. I highly doubt the Mika situation is going to be resolved this season. Maybe in the summer.

I'd also keep an eye on opportunities to add guys under 25 who are struggling with their current team. Zegras should be a guy they look at. Yes, he's an absolute mess in his own end but he can actually carry the puck into the zone and has swagger in his game. You can build around those attributes and mitigate his weaknesses.

A guy like Zegras would be fed to the wolves in NY. Look how the Devils targeted our stars all game today. There’s no way to succeed until they toughen up.

 

[Tob]

A guy like Zegras would be fed to the wolves in NY. Look how the Devils targeted our stars all game today. There’s no way to succeed until they toughen up.

Z has fire. He cares even if he is a punk.

 

[Trxjw]

A guy like Zegras would be fed to the wolves in NY. Look how the Devils targeted our stars all game today. There’s no way to succeed until they toughen up.

Why does adding someone with skill preclude them from adding toughness to the lineup? Not to mention Zegras is hardly a softie.

 

[McRanger92]

Z has fire. He cares even if he is a punk.

I’ll gladly take him but the Rangers need to add multiple players who aren’t going to let the other team take runs at our guys. Laf spent the day jousting with Siegenthaler instead of playing. Jonass wouldn’t have been doing that with Rempe lurking.

Why does adding someone with skill preclude them from adding toughness to the lineup? Not to mention Zegras is hardly a softie.

No arguments here but it needs to be both. Zegras would make everyone look better on PP1, as long as Zegras and Laf replaced Meeka and Cryder.

 

[Trxjw]

No arguments here but it needs to be both

I agree. But a team having real bite to their game is never going to come from just one or two guys. You need that sort of culture in the room. Lafreniere was lauded in his draft year for having that fire, now he's struggling to find that part of his game without taking a dip elsewhere. Cuylle has it. Trocheck has it. Schneider has it. Miller has it. I just think the room is so toxic that nobody wants to stand up for each other.

 

[NYR Viper]

I agree. But a team having real bite to their game is never going to come from just one or two guys. You need that sort of culture in the room. Lafreniere was lauded in his draft year for having that fire, now he's struggling to find that part of his game without taking a dip elsewhere. Cuylle has it. Trocheck has it. Schneider has it. Miller has it. I just think the room is so toxic that nobody wants to stand up for each other.

This is what I see as well. Trouba pulled guys into it when they didn’t want to. For all his faults he was good at it.

I really like Othmann as a guy who plays with fire all the time. Berard clearly does.

 

[McRanger92]

I agree. But a team having real bite to their game is never going to come from just one or two guys. You need that sort of culture in the room. Lafreniere was lauded in his draft year for having that fire, now he's struggling to find that part of his game without taking a dip elsewhere. Cuylle has it. Trocheck has it. Schneider has it. Miller has it. I just think the room is so toxic that nobody wants to stand up for each other.

It’s why I’m so intrigued by JT Miller. He’s the lightning rod they need and he’s a great player. Get him and Zegras.

 

[Trxjw]

This is what I see as well. Trouba pulled guys into it when they didn’t want to. For all his faults he was good at it.

I really like Othmann as a guy who plays with fire all the time. Berard clearly does.

Agreed. I think for all of their faults the Rangers are in a position where they could actually change the culture rather quickly. The problem is it means jettisoning most of the guys who led them in scoring last year.

The key with someone like Othmann is making sure he can keep it between the lines. A guy that plays on the edge is fantastic. Especially when he can score goals like he can. That's the grit you want. But he needs to be helping you more than he's hurting you. Otherwise you've got Rempe who can score from the top of the circle when he's not suspended.

 

[bleedblue94]

The thing is though, the roster isn't really that "old"
The oldest in the top 6 (at the beginning of the season) are panarin, smith, and ck at 33.
Mika is 31
Trocheck is 31

We had multiple players in our top 9 in their early 20's (upside of their development curve)

Our defense the oldest player was again Trouba at 30.
Multiple players in their early 20s.

Mika's slide down at 30/31 is insane.
Ck's slide down at 33 is still crazy fast considering his numbers last year and especially 2 years ago.

Mika's numbers when he signed that deal were fundamentally very strong. It was both even strength production and PP production.
Ck's 50+ goal season was an aberration but still was a solid year even with accounting for the pp anomaly.

I get that the discussion is on the team being old, but the theory was ( and it was sound) that they had another year, and then you could slowly build younger pieces, you would be able to have younger players slowly fill in rolls, and Mika might slow down, but playing with high end wingers could keep him generating.

The depth wasn't needed if the team didn't somehow drop off a massive cliff, which no one expected.

The should be impact players are old on this team. The young players are not impact players. The whole team plays old. They're one of the slowest teams in the league with the way they play hockey.

Even if you want to give the young players another year before you judge them so what. Cuylle is the only one playing above expectations.