Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[JohnC]

Yeah, no. I don't want Peter Chiarelli anywhere near the GM chair. I don't see what issue there'd be with Messier in a President-type role.

What does Messier know about running hockey operations?

 

[McRanger92]

And yet we have boomers and Drury boot lickers going "hurr durr GM good players bad"


I guess we will find out sooner than later.

I'll eat the crow if Drury gets fired soon, but part of me also wants to see how far this ship can sink.

 

[CLW]

Did you guys even listen to what he said?!? He was crapping on Lavi, not Drury.

Rupp's saying that Drury's mail to the other GMs that put Kreider on the open for trade list was the bomb that set off this whole thing because it was seen as manipulative. It was the cherry on the cake on top of other questionable moves made by Drury. He then goes on to say that Lavi and the coaches have no handle on the situation and are making bad things worse. With management and coaches lacking in ability the players will not be able to bootstrap themselves out of this situation, especially not with the constant downward flow of BS coming their way.

This is basically what I've been (more or less) manically posting over and over again.

 

[mike14]

If they have issue with the way Drury conducts business, then they surely won't respond / haven't responded to him. Also, Drury's name and number don't hang from the rafters. I'm pro-Messier being involved in the org in some capacity.

It's not what Adam Graves would tell them. It's the fact that it's Adam Graves giving them a kick in the ass. When you have a legend like that tell you to your face you need to play with pride, you listen. And you fight like hell to get things right. If not, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Plain and simple. Citing Drury's "accomplishments" is comical.

But that's my point. Why is Graves a 'legend' to these guys (and lets be honest, there's even quite a few on here who question whether his # should really be in the rafters)? We'd all respond to a Graves rev-up speech because we love the guy because of what he means to us. That doesn't transfer over to the current playing group (and there's a conversation around our 'organizational culture' to be had another day); and if it does, let's at least get in guys from other organizations who have actually been successful during most of these guy's lifetimes so they can at least relate to it somewhat

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

He mentioned the trades in passing then segued into the coach needing to set the tone for the room, which was his main focus of the video. I guess we all hear what we want to hear.

He literally spent half his time discussing the fallout from the trades, Kreider being mentioned, the atmosphere there and players looking over their shoulders. WTF were you listening to?

 

[toNYRico]

What does Messier know about running hockey operations?

He worked with Sather from 2009-2013. Here's a question. What makes him not qualified to work in hockey operations? Let's start there.

 

[mike14]

He worked with Sather from 2009-2013. Here's a question. What makes him not qualified to work in hockey operations? Let's start there.

Nothing. If Mess is interested in the role he could replace Jed Ortmeyer tomorrow. If we/he want to start building his skill set to one day have a crack at being GM then let's do it (my preference would be that he does his skill building elsewhere to see how other organisations operate)

EDIt - I probably should have picked Graves or Barnett over Ortmeyer in the example, but the broader point stands

 

[toNYRico]

But that's my point. Why is Graves a 'legend' to these guys (and lets be honest, there's even quite a few on here who question whether his # should really be in the rafters)? We'd all respond to a Graves rev-up speech because we love the guy because of what he means to us. That doesn't transfer over to the current playing group (and there's a conversation around our 'organizational culture' to be had another day); and if it does, let's at least get in guys from other organizations who have actually been successful during most of these guy's lifetimes so they can at least relate to it somewhat

We're seeing right before our eyes what the byproduct of Drury talking to this group is. Same with Lav. More soft, sensitive, spineless hockey. You can't trade the entire roster. This team was / is expected to win. They're so far off the rails right now. You have no idea how they'd respond to Graves. Why not let him give it to them?

 

[Siddi]

He literally spent half his time discussing the fallout from the trades, Kreider being mentioned, the atmosphere there and players looking over their shoulders. WTF were you listening to?

 

[IDvsEGO]

Yeah, no. I don't want Peter Chiarelli anywhere near the GM chair. I don't see what issue there'd be with Messier in a President-type role.

My point was Messier would be terrible. Not that I want Chia...

 

[mike14]

We're seeing right before our eyes what the byproduct of Drury talking to this group is. Same with Lav. More soft, sensitive, spineless hockey. You can't trade the entire roster. This team was / is expected to win. They're so far off the rails right now. You have no idea how they'd respond to Graves. Why not let him give it to them?

How do we know he hasn't?

 

[McRanger92]

Rupp is coming at it from the player's perspective but what he's saying is the Rangers have no leaders any level of the organization. He is correct. No one has taken charge of the situation at any level. The players wilted, the coach is weak, and the President/GM is silent.

 

[toNYRico]

My point was Messier would be terrible. Not that I want Chia...

"Messier would be terrible" is based on what? Your fortune cookie from dinner tonight?

How do we know he hasn't?

We don't. It's possible, but I've only seen players-only meetings and Drury addressing the team reported so far.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

And yet we have boomers and Drury boot lickers going "hurr durr GM good players bad"

The well fleshed-out counter argument (on the trades) of "its not OK players R mad!" is equally inspiring

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

fun fact, messier an chiarelli are both bald

 

[periferal]

The teams results were much better than the sum of its parts last season, both on paper and analytically. They constantly pulled wins out of their ass that they didn't deserve. Laviolette coached the whole season like it was the playoffs. Panarin was out of this world last season at 5v5 and he's merely been fine this year. The team gives up way too many high danger chances. Zibanejad and Kreider have regressed majorly. Lindgren has regressed even more after a pretty bad season last year and is weighing down their best defenseman. Drury needed to revamp the defense as early as last trade deadline and still hasn't. On top of all that, they are probably gassed after a long playoff run and a short offseason and there is also probably some kind of mental let down still about coming up short again.

It was necessary to trade Trouba because he was awful and I would argue he didn't play with any grit at all aside from a big stupid hit every 4 months and/or a useless fight. He was a lazy player and absolutely awful at defending. The problem right now is that they didn't have anyone better to replace him and then Miller got hurt.

On top of all that there's all this behind the scenes garbage that doesn't help anything either.

Really appreciate this well thought out reply. All your points make sense, but still it doesn't explain this wide of a dropoff in play - From nearly a Cup finalist to a squad that could be a high lottery team.

I don't care how the planets align for any team during a season...You just rarely, if ever, see such a dropoff. It's not like the rangers were average for a bunch of years, then made the Conference finals...And then went to crap. They've been a Cup contender for 3 seasons, and then this crap season.

I just don't think everything above explains something that seems to be in their character. It's like they've lost a ton of character, effort, and will. Last year there was energy. This year the team seems to be just going through the motions.

 

[mike14]

fun fact, messier an chiarelli are both bald

so is Graves (I think)!
We should get the 3 of them to form the 'anti-hirsute triumvirate' that will lead us to the promised land.
Obviously Mika and his lush locks will be the first thing to go!!!

 

[Alluckks]

Christ, never post idiot Daigle stuff or people like that here

 

[Siddi]

The well fleshed-out counter argument (on the trades) of "its not OK players R mad!" is equally inspiring.

The players on the roster are angry, players around the league are concerned and now you have former players chiming in. Clearly alot of people feel like Drury screwed the pooch here.

 

[UnSandvich]

Ngl, Messier's TV analysis is so mind-numbingly surface level, I really don't think he understands the modern NHL well enough to be in a position of significant org leadership and responsibility.

95% of his analysis is some kind of "He's just a really good player", "He plays with a lot of heart", "Love to play with a gritty guy like that" and "Well the goalie's making the stops right now".

 

[xsniper11x]

Whether you want to focus all your blame on certain players, or Drury, Lavs, whoever, the conclusion is the same. The roster needs to be turned over to new blood.

I’m fine firing Lavs. Maybe Drury needs to go too. However, we’ve learned nothing if that’s all we do and leave the roster as is. A new GM and coach is just going to lean on the vets and we’ll be right back here again. And I can say this with confidence because we’ve already done it. Culture change doesn’t need to just start at the top, but also in the room.

 

[JohnC]

Working in an assistant role for a couple of years, quitting, then not popping up in any front office role in the subsequent 10 years is a pretty solid sign that Messier’s not qualified to be in a management position.

 

[McRanger92]

Ngl, Messier's TV analysis is so mind-numbingly surface level, I really don't think he understands the modern NHL well enough to be in a position of significant org leadership and responsibility.

95% of his analysis is some kind of "He's just a really good player", "He plays with a lot of heart", "Love to play with a gritty guy like that" and "Well the goalie's making the stops right now".

I dont think anyone wants him, its more the spectre of it. Hire Henrik if you want an ex-player to lead the organization.

Whether you want to focus all your blame on certain players, or Drury, Lavs, whoever, the conclusion is the same. The roster needs to be turned over to new blood.

I’m fine firing Lavs. Maybe Drury needs to go too. However, we’ve learned nothing if that’s all we do and leave the roster as is. A new GM and coach is just going to lean on the vets and we’ll be right back here again. And I can say this with confidence because we’ve already done it. Culture change doesn’t need to just start at the top, but also in the room.

Best post of the day

 

[Siddi]

Dangle is a clown, albeit an entertaining one and I am not saying Lazarus is wrong but the wording feels strange. "Current" NHL players? So they have not had it confirmed or denied by any Rangers?

 

[mike14]

Ngl, Messier's TV analysis is so mind-numbingly surface level, I really don't think he understands the modern NHL well enough to be in a position of significant org leadership and responsibility.

95% of his analysis is some kind of "He's just a really good player", "He plays with a lot of heart", "Love to play with a gritty guy like that" and "Well the goalie's making the stops right now".

He literally admitted during the last playoffs that he didn't know some of the rules