Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[Barnaby]

Thats a hot take about Drury's deadline deals.
There are a lot of very valid criticisms about Drury as GM. That would be the lowest on my list.

Copp+Vatrano+Motte for A very high conditional 1st and change, was a great pickup. It gave our team depth, and they all put up big plays in the playoffs.
Tarasenko and Mikkola were another great move, and, we still had a first round pick that year. (please note, I ignore the kane move which I hated at the time, and hate even more now, as something Dolan pushed on him not a move drury wanted to make)
Roslovic and Wennberg were solid depth moves, and were good pickups without sacrificing a first.

Making splashes while still keeping 2/3 first round picks, AND going to the ECF 2x in 3 years with the pickups all contributing in the playoffs.

Drury is interesting.

Drury has made some savvy moves.

Drury has made some blunders.

Assuming he sticks around, I don’t know what to expect. I feel like it’s a coin flip whether he rights the ship or sinks it.

 

[Barnaby]

Drury has a chance to do something REALLY funny, which is trade Fox and Igor before their NMCs kick in.

Who's with me.

Two months ago id say you’re nuts.

Today id roll with it.

 

[Savant]

The players are obviously trying to get Drury and Laviolette fired.

At this point you have to fire Drury. Not just because the team won’t play for him, but because if he’s a lame duck, you don’t want him making deals for the next GM. It’s a very bad situation

 

[eco's bones]

fact Kreider is on the short list for my favorite player on current team, honestly, is moot
This is personal w/zib for me
He has to be made to totally capitulate by waiving
which can only happen now by him not playing



too many retorts, must pass for now..



respectful disagree
it is more on the players
the most genius braintrust can't help if we don't have the horses

May be all of those things but not equally
Players w/few exceptions need to go
THEN we look at the staff and figure out what staff is best w/what we have/where we intend to go



we do

Chris has always been a favorite player of mine too but he's put up 1 goal and 1 assist in the last 13 games. That you can't contemplate moving him is absurd. He's given us great value for his contract up until this year but he hasn't made a positive impact on the ice pretty much in the last month. He wears an A and is a veteran so responsibility should fall on his shoulders. It's very questionable also that if the Rangers moved Zibanejad it will improve Kreider's play. These two attached to each other both as line mates and on a psychological emotional level for the last several years. He's absolutely tradable playing as he has and if he still is around at the deadline and the Rangers aren't in real position to go into the playoffs like it's looking it would be a dereliction of duty for our GM not to move him.

You'd move everyone else pretty much on the team.....fire the coach and GM to save his ass and it's kind of f***ed up and it makes it impossible to take seriously whatever other trades you would make. Kreider absolutely has been part of the problem and moving him would for sure signal we're changing the culture of the team.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Drury has a chance to do something REALLY funny, which is trade Fox and Igor before their NMCs kick in.

Who's with me.

I’m going to say yes but only because I’m caught up in the moment with Fox.
On one hand he has been a top 5 d-man in the league.
The other side of the coin is he hasn’t been the same player since those two knee injuries last season and he doesn’t seem to be the best role model as far as conditioning for young players the would inevitably be coming back in trades to purge this team.
Igor 100 %. Can’t have an 11.5 million dollar player that only appears in 55 regular season games.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

January 1 Lineup

Lafreniere-Chytil-Cuylle
Panarin-Trocheck-Berard
Edstrom-Carrick-Othmann
Kreider-Mika-Rempe

Miller-Fox
Vaakanainen-Schneider
Jones-Clifton



Why not?

March 8th lineup:

Lafreniere-Chytil-Cuylle
Panarin-Groulx*-Othmann
Berard-Trocheck-Belzile
Edstrom-Rempe-Zibanejad
Brodzinski

Vaakanainen*-Schneider
Jones-Ruhwedel *
Harpur-Fitzgerald *

* place holder for incoming players received from trading:
Kreider
Smith
Vesey
Carrick
Fox
Miller
Lindgren
Shesterkin

**if there is an overwhelming offer for Quick and he’s willing to go trade him as well.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

All boils down to canning Drury and letting a new gm decide the direction of this franchise

 

[bernmeister]

Bern, you never addressed any of the points in my response. Kreider's play is in the basement. He's a player who, due to reputation, would bring a decent return. He's a guy who has SEVERAL potential replacements who are younger and performing better. His cap hit, while not bad, could be better applied towards a top-4 LHD. What is the logic for NOT moving him? There is none. To paraphrase a passionate poster on this site, no sacred cows. .

As for Zib, as with you, he's the player I'm MOST aggravated at. But again, we need to apply logic. Right now, Zib can't be moved. Even if you manage to piss him off enough to waive his NMC (and I don't think that's likely to work), who is going to trade for him at that cap hit for another half decade? Other teams can also see how he's playing. And if we DID somehow manage to move him, who replaces him? Trocheck and Chytil are the only other top 9 centers in the entire Rangers system. Top 6 centers are difficult to acquire. They rarely hit FA. They aren't often available for trade. The team needs to try to fix Zibanejad. Not because he deserves more chances, but because we're stuck with him either way.

Kreider -
I did explain in overview, you simply do not accept my answers.
That he has only 1G in last 13 or whatev games is consistent w/my appraisal that the rest of the team is dragging him down, not the other way around.
Revelation of back issues, not to be dismissed, is new and disconcerting as it comes with the territory. Fortunately my understanding is with treatment he can manage and continue.

Look at it this way. Either I'm right or I'm wrong.
If I'm right Kreider has game, he has value. We can deal him now or deal him later. There is no urgency to dealing him now when the most cancerous guy is zib, and moving him and others should be the move, not Kreider.
If I'm wrong, Kreider will have min value. Other clubs will not buy due to rep. They will gamble that the issue is the back and it can be overcome. But by definition, CK having no-min value presumes his back etc situation is so severe that he cannot expect best case rebound scenario. In such event, any return for him is minimal. Ergo, best option is hold CK, deal older vets, reassess.

Zib
We have a deal for Zib where it is plausible he will waive.
But we need to have real expectations.
Peeps saying we are going to get dollar/top dollar are wrong
there has already been too much damage for too long for anything that gives us a good return. We must accept this is addition by subtraction, and bite the bullet.
Posters here insisting on keeping this arrogant sleeze b'c they can't let him go otherwise w/o a substantial return need to get real, and admit I am right.

Zib - I said give him away cheap to VAN not for JT Miller [unrealistic] but to give VAN depth while JT was away.
Now that he has returned while that is not the same impetus [other than if JT has to suddenly get up and go once again], adding zib for depth works for nucks
Howev, he is a head case and has to be extremely discounted.
This also works for us because taking a min return is a slap to zibs face

zib max reduced to 4.25
for
Raty, Juulsen, Descharnais + if they are ok, also Forbot

Desch is huge useless pylon zero mobility thru next season
Jettisoning him works for them and removes bad cap
Raty is ok+ for bottom 6 pivot but they can short term surrender in this circumstance
Juulsen playing surprisingly well but is bottom 6
Forbot also ok but expiring
thing here is can they pick up cheap Ds after this deal

Zib at half they can live w/b'c at 4.25, can retain further and deal to bottom feeder if nec
Zib waives to avoid all this and play w/EPetterssen

Again Zib HAS TO go before Kreider to break Zib
THAT IS NON NEGOTIABLE

Who in Nashville are you bringing here to help things? Seriously?

Who from Buffalo? People keep saying Byram and it shows that they haven't watch much of Byram.

I get how high Byram was drafted, and there is a chance he could pull and Ekblad and after many concussions, magically continue like they never did.
Howev, that is exceptional
Regardless of how good Byram is/is not, concussion risk = no good unless super extreme buy low, which ain't happening

Add size, physicality, and speed?

Who’s trading that to us for small, slow, and weak?

In seriousness, I wouldn’t mind a big shake up trade, but those Bern style trades don’t seem to happen these days for a variety of reasons. Even less likely in season.

we would be better off if they did happen is my pt

also, in my case, I usually take pains to explain why other team does

The players are obviously trying to get Drury and Laviolette fired.

At this point you have to fire Drury. Not just because the team won’t play for him, but because if he’s a lame duck, you don’t want him making deals for the next GM. It’s a very bad situation

And while I have no particular love for either gm or coach [I wanted Knoblauch], we can't allow the players to win

clear all player deadwood first
then reassess

Chris has always been a favorite player of mine too but he's put up 1 goal and 1 assist in the last 13 games. That you can't contemplate moving him is absurd. He's given us great value for his contract up until this year but he hasn't made a positive impact on the ice pretty much in the last month. He wears an A and is a veteran so responsibility should fall on his shoulders. It's very questionable also that if the Rangers moved Zibanejad it will improve Kreider's play. These two attached to each other both as line mates and on a psychological emotional level for the last several years. He's absolutely tradable playing as he has and if he still is around at the deadline and the Rangers aren't in real position to go into the playoffs like it's looking it would be a dereliction of duty for our GM not to move him.

You'd move everyone else pretty much on the team.....fire the coach and GM to save his ass and it's kind of f***ed up and it makes it impossible to take seriously whatever other trades you would make. Kreider absolutely has been part of the problem and moving him would for sure signal we're changing the culture of the team.

Pls read earlier part of my response
CK is NOT part of the problem

 

[surlysailor]

Connor Clifton? @Barnaby mentioned finding 2014 Kevin Klein, and that's pretty close. Hardnosed guy who can move better than any other defender we have. It would be a start.

I don’t mind Clifton, but I’m not trading kk for a 31 yo 5’11 3 million dollar d who is currently scratched by buffalo. Give them a late pick for taking on the salary not a player you should be able to flip for a more useful cost controlled player.

I think kreider to St. Louis makes sense. Get him back with Buch, they have some intriguing prospects like dvorsky, jiricek, snuggard, Fischer. Tho nyr would prob have to take back a bad contract like saad or faksa

 

[RangerBoy]

I read Peter Baugh's article in The Athletic. Tankathon has a strength of schedule feature. The Rangers have the 5th toughest remaining schedule in the NHL.

NHL Remaining Schedule Strength | Tankathon

Shows the remaining strength of schedule for NHL teams based on the points per game of the opponents left on their schedule.

www.tankathon.com

Go to the main NHL page. Go to more in the upper right. Drops down.

The Rangers were 12-4-1. The Rangers are now 15-14-1.

The Rangers lineup looked like a lineup you see at the end of preseason. Some NHL regulars dress on different lines. The career AHL players play. A few kids play. The Blues played the night before in Dallas. The Rangers were in their St.Louis hotel drinking champagne cocktails and eating shrimp watching the Blues on TV in Dallas or maybe they were watching Netflix.

What's up with Panarin? Upper body injury. I was hoping it was a roster management issue and Panarin flew back to NY to consider his options. There are a few trade options available for him and they need his approval. NMC, The Rangers use one of their three retention spots.

The other two retention spots are used on Lindgren and Smith in a package deal to the Jets who need help on the PK. Those retentions end this summer and Panarin's retention ends after 25-26 season.

Drury should trade a player with a NMC and ask the player to waive. If you don't waive, we will leak it to Larry Brooks or EF and your career here is essentially over. The fans will hate you. Waive the clause. Do it before the holiday roster freeze on the 20th. The Rangers players will be so annoyed.

Fire Housley. He has done a terrible job. All of the Rangers D are worse under him. There were a few D in his previous spots in Arizona and Nashville who became good NHL D playing for him. Laviolette will be annoyed.

Send Mancini to the AHL when the team returns from the road trip. He doesn't look very good. Let him play more minutes in Hartford. Mancini can be brought back. Play Ruhwedel. He stinks.

 

[RangerBoy]

EF discusses the Rangers.

Kakko scratch was a surprise.

Kreider and Zibanjead were dropped in the lineup.

Wild rumors flying around about what the Rangers could do.

Are the Rangers trying to make Mika uncomfortable? Sensitive. Play better or he says I want to go somewhere else.

Trade all of them except for Lafreniere, Cuylle, Schneider and most likely Chytil The young guys stay. Igor, The rest of them. See ya later. Back up the truck.

Make they want to make Kreider uncomfortable too. Accept a trade to a team on his NTC list?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Conor Clifton is terrible.

 

[eco's bones]

Do not see Laviolette lasting much longer. Drury might follow him out the door at season's end. Everything that Drury does from now until then is about saving his job meaning he has to make as many smart decisions as possible including players he moves out.

One issue about trading vets for picks, prospects, young players is I've the impression this summer's draft is not a particularly strong draft. Ending up for instance with a 1st rounder in the back half of the first round might not get us a top end type player and maybe you look at picking up picks in next year's draft instead or maybe younger players/prospects will be a better way to go.

If the locker room leadership is a problem not only in the locker room but not producing to expectations on the ice and I'm getting at Kreider, Zibanejad specifically those players have to go even if Laviolette and/or Drury get fired. Actually specifically because you don't want to pass the same problem on to the next coach and/or next GM. Let those players find their way with their new teams as best they can.

It seems to me that the Rangers are going to have a lot of money to work with come July's free agency and we're going to need to rebuild a defense. I expect Lindgren and possibly Miller to be gone too. We're going to need to give Igor more support. So that's one area where I think the Rangers will look to bring in free agents for the next regime.

Bright spots on the horizon:

Dylan Garand is 9-2-2 with a 2.20 GAA and .926% save percentage. He is very much outperforming Louis Domingue this year. If he can keep that up or somewhere in the neighborhood he should be ready for the NHL next year.

On defense Mancini is our top on the cusp guy. Matt Robertson has been playing pretty well of late though. Fortescue and Emery will need more time but are doing fine.

At forward there are any number of players in Hartford and other leagues that continue to make good progress---starting with Brett Berard and Edstrom. I would mention Will Cuylle has been great all year with Rangers. But Sykora, Rempe are doing well and 1st year pros Chmelar, Roobroeck, McConnell-Barker have made the sometimes difficult jump to the pros kind of easily. Also Laba and Lamb (having a really nice season) + of course Gabriel Perreault.

So even with a shit season at the top level we still have a lot of future for the team.