Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[CLW]

Do not fire Laviolette, that’s giving this rotten core a pass. This is on them, no heart, no fight, absolute disgrace. Start with Lindgren, Smith and, Kreider at the trade deadline. Do all you can to get Zibanejad to waive in the summer. This team needs to be turned over to the younger players before the rot continues to spread and it’s too late.

This is the story about Cinderella's glass slippers. The slippers do not fit so we need to take the axe to the toes. Drury the genius brought in the same shit coach three times over and things went south three times. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Let's keep the shit coach, the shit GM and try new players, that will work (not).

There is not a single poster here that seriously argues against changes on the roster, but claiming the coaches and Drury are victims is hilarious.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

2 paths for Drury imo

Try to salvage the season. imo That means a new coach and some defensive upgrades. We’ve seen this already. It works for a while

Or tank for next season. Sell off whatever vets you can and retool. Also a new coach in the offseason

At some point they need some coaching stability and can't treat head coaches like Doctor Who.

Lavi is fine, as are Muse and Peca. The core players are rotten,

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

This is the story about Cinderella's glass slippers. The slippers do not fit so we need to take the axe to the toes. Drury the genius brought in the same shit coach three times over and things went south three times. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Let's keep the shit coach, the shit GM and try new players, that will work (not).

There is not a single poster here that seriously argues against changes on the roster, but claiming the coaches and Drury are victims is hilarious.

Drury as a GM has been very successful: two trips to the ECF. You're not gonna fire a GM over that unless he pulls something like the former Mets GM did.

His draft picks are just starting to become NHL regulars.

Lavi's a good coach. His record speaks for itself.

Can't keep firing coaches every two years. That's Phil Esposito GMing.

 

[pld459666]

Chris Kreider was dropped to the 4th line in the 3rd period. His game has fallen apart. He looks mimiserable.

Could be that Kreider already knows he is being shopped.

Hope so

Mika should also get the boot

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

Firing Laviolette isn't going to do anything unless you bring Torts or someone like him in. A coach that will hold EVERYONE accountable. But that's not happening.

While this is a noble sentiment, Dolan would have a heart attack seeing his high salaried players in the press box or glued to the bench.

 

[CLW]

Drury as a GM has been very successful: two trips to the ECF. You're not gonna fire a GM over that unless he pulls something like the former Mets GM did.

His draft picks are just starting to become NHL regulars.

Lavi's a good coach. His record speaks for itself.

Can't keep firing coaches every two years. That's Phil Esposito GMing.

Drury rode Gorton's foundation, while squandering the immense amount of ammo left in his care. Drury's draft picks are nice but every NHL org has similar. Drury is the person most responsible for the current mess.

Lavi is just another standard retread, who might have been a good coach 20 years ago. I guess he is "fine" if you give him a regular standard type A NHL roster so he can roll his utterly predictable boring crap, but this roster isn't that.

You can fire coaches if they are stupid hires to begin with. Nothing wrong with fixing your mistakes.

 

[eco's bones]

I haven't been watching very many games for a while.....which is okay. There are years that almost everything goes right---kind of like last year until the Florida series and years when almost nothing goes right like this year and it's seeming like this might carry on throughout. Sometimes when a team is out or just about is when they get their game back together.....all the pressure's gone and they become world beaters when things are too late.

It's good to have distractions. Other things you can do with your time. As far as hockey the WJC's will be a thing for me. Not so sure about the 4 nations thing though.

As far as the Rangers---some cleaning house is probably needed. Kreider hasn't scored in quite a while. Zibanejad's overall game kind of sucks and Lindgren is heading towards his rental year. So is Smith....and Quick. So those would be guys I would be looking at moving or not returning next year. If the team is going to flame out some/most of the vets need to go. If Miller looks intent on bending us over on his next contract....his game this year doesn't justify what Lafreniere got....he might have to go too.....and the Kreider's, Zibanejad's might have to go just because of the soap opera that's been around this team all year long which might have its roots going back to the Goodrow business but there's a point where enough is enough and only so much patience left for all the chest beating.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Drury rode Gorton's foundation, while squandering the immense amount of ammo left in his care. Drury's draft picks are nice but every NHL org has similar.

Lavi is just another standard retread, who might have been a good coach 20 years ago. I guess he is "fine" if you give him a regular standard type A NHL roster so he can roll his utterly predictable boring crap, but this roster isn't that.

You can fire coaches if they are stupid hires to begin with. Nothing wrong with fixing your mistakes.

Three questions: Are Drury's picks becoming solid/cost controlled NHL players? Are there still a number of malcontents asking out and going AWOL in the organization? Did Lavi not lead the team to the President's Trophy and ECF half a year ago?

Bonus: Who should be the coach then?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm convinced fans that want Torts don't remember 2013. It wasn't that much worse than this version until they made a couple of smart moves at the deadline. That team hovered around .500 for the longest time and didn't play all that hard.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I haven't been watching very many games for a while.....which is okay. There are years that almost everything goes right---kind of like last year until the Florida series and years when almost nothing goes right like this year and it's seeming like this might carry on throughout. Sometimes when a team is out or just about is when they get their game back together.....all the pressure's gone and they become world beaters when things are too late.

It's good to have distractions. Other things you can do with your time. As far as hockey the WJC's will be a thing for me. Not so sure about the 4 nations thing though.

As far as the Rangers---some cleaning house is probably needed. Kreider hasn't scored in quite a while. Zibanejad's overall game kind of sucks and Lindgren is heading towards his rental year. So is Smith....and Quick. So those would be guys I would be looking at moving or not returning next year. If the team is going to flame out some/most of the vets need to go. If Miller looks intent on bending us over on his next contract....his game this year doesn't justify what Lafreniere got....he might have to go too.....and the Kreider's, Zibanejad's might have to go just because of the soap opera that's been around this team all year long which might have its roots going back to the Goodrow business but there's a point where enough is enough and only so much patience left for all the chest beating.

If I were Drury because I hate "yeah but....." arguments and like to come up with factual actual answers.

Coaching staff: stays for one more year with only Housley getting let go.

Mika: stays at least another two years in a Jordan Staal 3C role.
Kreider: trade him this deadline to the highest bidder.
Lindgren: trade him as soon as possible.
Kakko: trade him between now and the deadline.
Smith: trade him at the deadline to the highest bidder.
Vesey: trade him at the deadline for a late round pick
Quick: See if there's any interest for a late round pick
Carrick: See if there's any interest in him for a 6th or 7th
Chytil: Trade him if there's a great return
Miller: I'd keep him and sign him to a fair deal. Work with him on offseason training.
Othmann: Call him up
Rempe: Call him up
Garand: Call him up

Summer of 2025: sign some value UFAs to fair deals and of course Perrault, Laba, and Lamb joining the organization.

 

[CTRanger]

This is the story about Cinderella's glass slippers. The slippers do not fit so we need to take the axe to the toes. Drury the genius brought in the same shit coach three times over and things went south three times. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Let's keep the shit coach, the shit GM and try new players, that will work (not).

There is not a single poster here that seriously argues against changes on the roster, but claiming the coaches and Drury are victims is hilarious.

I didn’t claim anyone was a victim, your words. Laviolette should be gone in the summer. But to do it now IMO lets the players off, they should all wallow in this shit pile together.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I'm convinced fans that want Torts don't remember 2013. It wasn't that much worse than this version until they made a couple of smart moves at the deadline. That team hovered around .500 for the longest time and didn't play all that hard.

The equivalent would be trading Panarin for 3 depth pieces.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The equivalent would be trading Panarin for 3 depth pieces.

Nope, Gaborik at his best can't touch Panarin at his worst and unlike Panarin was having a horrible season that year. BTW, before the trades the Rangers were 17-15-3 and they finished 8 games over .500 in a 48 game schedule even including the trades.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Nope, Gaborik at his best can't touch Panarin at his worst and unlike Panarin was having a horrible season that year. BTW, before the trades the Rangers were 17-15-3 and they finished 8 games over .500 in a 48 game schedule even including the trades.

Who is Gabriel? Perrault luckily isn't near this mess.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

At some point they need some coaching stability and can't treat head coaches like Doctor Who.

Lavi is fine, as are Muse and Peca. The core players are rotten,

Lavi is terrible.

The core is rotten.

Both can be true.

 

[CLW]

Three questions: Are Drury's picks becoming solid/cost controlled NHL players? Are there still a number of malcontents asking out and going AWOL in the organization? Did Lavi not lead the team to the President's Trophy and ECF half a year ago?

Bonus: Who should be the coach then?

Nobody's arguing against Drury's picks. Why even bring it up? It's the rest of his work that has been a huge mess starting immediately with his first summer.

Who gives a shit about the President's Trophy? I ridiculed it last season because we were playing shit hockey then too despite the winning record.

Malcontents are a result of Drury's continuous mismanagement. You can say they have no right to be malcontent, but that's not how human beings work. If people find the management above them and their immediate bosses toxic assholes, it will always be hard to do your best.

Counter questions:

Why does Lavi lose his teams over and over?

What exactly makes Drury a highly successful GM? Going deep in the playoffs but failing to win the cup? That is failure, not success. Solid drafting? That's to be expected as the minimum standard.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Who is Gabriel? Perrault luckily isn't near this mess.

I changed it. I don't know if it was autocorrect or a brain fart when I starting typing "Gab".

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Nobody's arguing against Drury's picks. Why even bring it up? It's the rest of his work that has been a huge mess starting immediately with his first summer.

Who gives a shit about the President's Trophy? I ridiculed it last season because we were playing shit hockey then too despite the winning record.

Malcontents are a result of Drury's continuous mismanagement. You can say they have no right to be malcontent, but that's not how human beings work. If people find the management above them and their immediate bosses toxic assholes, it will always be hard to do your best.

Counter questions:

Why does Lavi lose his teams over and over?

What exactly makes Drury a highly successful GM? Going deep in the playoffs but failing to win the cup? That is failure, not success. Solid drafting? That's to be expected as the minimum standard.

Lavi has an above average stay for most of his stops.

It's about expectations for playoff success. Going to the ECF is having a successful season especially in 2021-22 when that team overachieved.

And drafting well? None of his picks have walked out or asked for contract termination, None of the players have punched other players in the face or gotten into automobile incidents. A bunch of players had hurt feelings over losing their friend to waivers and because someone supported his wife.

Yes, drafting pieces is important to longevity.

I'll be back in a few hours to debate more bro.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Nobody's arguing against Drury's picks. Why even bring it up? It's the rest of his work that has been a huge mess starting immediately with his first summer.

Who gives a shit about the President's Trophy? I ridiculed it last season because we were playing shit hockey then too despite the winning record.

Malcontents are a result of Drury's continuous mismanagement. You can say they have no right to be malcontent, but that's not how human beings work. If people find the management above them and their immediate bosses toxic assholes, it will always be hard to do your best.

Counter questions:

Why does Lavi lose his teams over and over?

What exactly makes Drury a highly successful GM? Going deep in the playoffs but failing to win the cup? That is failure, not success. Solid drafting? That's to be expected as the minimum standard.

The expectations of this board are legitimately insane.
Drury is a failure because he hasn't won a cup.
Ok so then there are what 5 GM's who aren't failures?
Thats an insane benchmark.
The rangers the past 3 years were one of the youngest teams to make the playoffs (as opposed to the hank years where they were the oldest). And yet somehow they've managed to get to the ECF TWICE!

"The malcontents are a result of Drury's mismanagement" - Lets rephrase that "The locker room wasn't happy because goodrow was moved via waivers and now trouba was moved via waivers"
Both moves WE LOVED because they were both dragging the team down for well more than their cap space.
JFC if the board is siding with the players on two actually good move.

Your counter question is flawed - ALL COACHES Lose the room. Paul maurice very famously QUIT on a team because he lost the room, and guess what, they're looking pretty solid now.
Coaches lose the room. It happens.
In this case? I'm on Lavi's side, because he's the first coach we've actually had, who's even slightly developed kids. The problem is the vets.
I dont see how anyone sides with any of the players at the moment.

Also note, Lavi can't healthy scratch all the vets. We need them moved, but unless drury knows he's safe for another 2 years, he can't pull that trigger.


This board is still harping on the Buch trade. Drury is an average to above average GM.
He does a good job drafting.
He does a solid job of mid season trades.
He's hired coaches with a mindset of developing youth for long term success.
His Free agent signings have been mixed with some very good positives and some mediocre signings that he's managed to get out consequence free from.
He moved Buch and this board will never forgive him. So he's clearly a failure.

This team needs a short term reset. Firing Drury and/or Lavi is not the answer. They have a direction they want to take the team, that is the right direction. Skill + grit.

The Board seems to think there's magically a different coach who's going to somehow turn Mika into 2019 Ryan O' Reilly.
The problem is the players. Not the coach. Not the GM.
The GM who's loudly said, play better or be gone.
The exact F'ing message we're screaming.
and yet drury is the problem.

 

[CLW]

Lavi has an above average stay for most of his stops.

It's about expectations for playoff success. Going to the ECF is having a successful season especially in 2021-22 when that team overachieved.

And drafting well? None of his picks have walked out or asked for contract termination, None of the players have punched other players in the face or gotten into automobile incidents. A bunch of players had hurt feelings over losing their friend to waivers and because someone supported his wife.

Yes, drafting pieces is important to longevity.

I'll be back in a few hours to debate more bro.

I didn't ask about Lavi's average longevity. I asked why he lost his teams.

Drury has not only failed to create a genuine contender, he has created a massive mess. The rotten culture is the work of management (Drury) because management preferred easy wins to the real work of building a winner.

No need to put lipstick on this pig.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Drury's performance has been disappointing. While the players' underperformance is a major issue, Drury has failed to improve the team and has repeatedly squandered valuable assets on rentals.

agreed but for some reason I have confidence in him to turn it around - Im sure Im wrong lol

 

[Boris Zubov]

Lavi is terrible.

The core is rotten.

Both can be true.

Add Drury to the mix & you've got a trifecta.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Drury needs to use all 3 retention spots at the deadline, either by retaining on players he trades, or being the middle man for teams needs a % of a player covered.

Time to actually get some draft picks back after trading so many picks.

agreed - I want draft picks. Build the right way and then hopefully you have a surplus of talent and can make a strategic trade or two

Kakko needs to be traded, there’s no room for him on RW and he’s not going to be anything more than he is right now.

There’s plenty of room. RW is one of the weakest spots on the roster. The issue is Kakko is a 3rd liner and he’s not going to be worth his next contract.

Not at a Celebrini, Bedard, Hughes level. More like a Nico Hischier level

I’ll take it!

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

The Rangers core has value and if done properly, a quick retool could be successful. The question is can Drury do it properly.

 

[LokiDog]

I don’t think Lavi is a good coach, but I don’t think he’s anywhere near the heart of THE problem at this point. Why he loses teams is irrelevant, IMO. All coaches lose their teams. Most teams have a new coach every 3-5 years. The question isn’t why Lavi loses teams. The question is why THIS team has quit on 3 straight coaches in 5 years. I don’t care who the coach is at that point; it could be Dancing Larry and he could be drunk every game/practice and exclusively talk to the players in pig Latin and I would still be completely incapable of siding with the players on this one. They’re an entitled group of babies who quit on every coach they have.

And the thing is, WE are sitting here saying Lavi needs to go because he doesn’t change up the top PP or break up Kreider and Zib or stop giving Lindgren big minutes… well, what are the players quitting for than? He’s basically doing what THEY want him to do. We want Zib sitting a game. We want Kreider benched. We want vets losing their spots to kids on the PP. We want Lindgren on the bottom pair. If Lavi did all of those things, could you imagine the amount of tears there would be in that locker room? Mika would flood the Garden. So what are they even quitting on? They’re not even being shown tough love.

They’re quitting because they’re gutless pansies who wilt when facing adversity and have been enjoying the scent of their own flatulence for far too long while being absolutely pampered in every way by this organization, it’s media and the multiple coaches they’ve had the privilege of quitting on. I don’t care if you were Al Arbour, Stan Bowman, Joel Quennville, Spencer Carberry… it does not matter. These boys are only going to work hard for you for about 16 months and if they don’t win the Cup that year, you might as well just resign and let them move on to the next coach.

It’s time to break up the band. They haven’t released an album in years and they keep touring, playing songs that used to be hits but they have no energy anymore and the singer’s voice is shot.