Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[Vitto79]

I get why he would want to go but why dont we just, you know, play him?

Heck if I know but he’s the obvious guy to go
2nd overall hurts him even though he’s a useful player . Just time for a change but need a solid return

 

[LOFIN]

Heck if I know but he’s the obvious guy to go
2nd overall hurts him even though he’s a useful player . Just time for a change but need a solid return

Yeah well good luck with that when the whole league knows Drury is probably desperate to make a trade and then the coach scratches him.

If you want to maximise his value, it would probably have to be a multi piece trade.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Barclay Goodrow told Drury he’d work with him to find a new team if he had to be moved. Neither he or his agent ever heard back from Golden Boy Chris. Because he panics. He panicked over the summer when he couldn’t get the Trouba deal done. He panicked when he sent the memo out and put guys on blast. And he panicked when he signed Igor and he .8 whatever save percentage to that monumentally stupid deal before seeing how the rest of the season played out. And that’s why the Trouba situation ended differently because Drury already had a shit ton of egg on his face. He needs to learn how to conduct business differently. It’s fair to say he didnt like how the season was progressing and he is well within his rights to look to make changes but he should know how to go about doing things. Make the deal or shut up. There’s no benefit to this fake tough guy persona. Whether people like it or not there’s a human element to these things and managing people is part of the job description. The players aren’t without blame either, they stink too. But they probably deserved more than 20 games to right the ship. If they didn’t it’s much easier to go nuclear at the trade deadline, when teams are actually looking to make deals. Both sides stink right now.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I don't care if Drury parks in handicap spots. The problem with the team is the group of guys spending their time whining about him instead of shutting him up by playing good hockey.

Anything we do to the coaching staff or management is just going to extend the leash for them, and push any cup aspirations off even farther down the road.

 

[Machinehead]

I get why he would want to go but why dont we just, you know, play him?

He's been a very awkward fit on a number of lines.

Granted, if we just played that whole line more, I wouldn't be against it.

 

[TGWL]

Everyone needs to settle down. The players are just on vacation. They will make playoffs and have 0 pressure for the first time ever. Then the games begin.... This master plan has been brought to you by Zibanejad and Kreider's 2am coffee gathering,

 

[Siddi]

Why are you certain of that? I can't see why any fan would even want to root for a group of players who let their personal feelings for their boss get in the way of playing with effort. Drury hasnt done a single thing against the players, aside from removing underperforming players with albatross contracts. Something every fan asked for. And Im supposed to want him fired? I dont really get the logic.

I dont know what Drury might have done to f*** the room up the way it is. Getting rid of Trouba and Goodies contract was and still is the right move but for whatever reason the players feel like it was handled the wrong way. Am I proud of how the players have handled things, f*** no but this is the situation right now and the easiest solution is to remove Drury.

As to why I believe the team is capable of turning it around? They have the talent. This is not a case of player decline. Not this fast and not with this group. No one can convince me that the team forgot how to play hockey over night en masse. Look at a player like Zibanejad. For all the rightful flack he is getting for his play he is still 4th on the team in points. That is with the minimal effort we all see on display game after game. Are you going to tell me that with just a little more effort he wont be at ppg pace?

Nah, these guys are waiting to flip the switch once they win this internal dick measuring contest.

Right or wrong it is what it is.

 

[alkurtz]

There is nothing more debilitating than working in a toxic work environment.

I've had the displeasure of working in a toxic environment in a professional organization both as an employee and part of management.

I'm sure many of you have had similar experiences.

We all know the amount of bitching, moaning, and groaning that can go on. Even as part of the management team, we sat around the table with the head of the organization kicking each other under the table aghast at all the stupidity we heard.

But workers and management still came to work and did their jobs. Maybe nobody was happy, maybe nobody went "above and beyond," but as professionals, we did our work.

A professional sports team is different. The employees do the work in public. They do their work against other teams that are trying to beat them.

Ranger players might be dissatisfied and unhappy with management. But I don't believe anyone is sulking, anyone is not putting out their maximum effort.

The reason is simple and this is what makes hockey culture different than all other sports. Players are incredibly loyal to each other. "Team" means more in hockey than in any other sport. If individual players are not putting out their maximum effort, they would be called out. I don't get that sense here.

The group dynamics of sports teams has always fascinated me and here we have a case study of a team that has lost all confidence, that expects things to go wrong, that tells itself they must do certain things but when the time comes to put their words into action, it's almost as if they do the opposite. A team where players are peeved at management.

Plus, we have an older core that is aging faster than anyone has expected.

A toxic work environment.

 

[Ruggs225]

This team is less likeable than the NYJ right now. Thats impressive

 

[alkurtz]

Toxic work environments don't heal themselves, they fester, become self-perpetuating, and worsen.

Drury is partly responsible. He must go. Laviolette is not to blame, but as part of this management team, he too must go.

"Punishing" players by trading them does not help. Knee-jerk trades don't work.

Something must give now, or in the off-season. This can't go on.

 

[McRanger92]

I dont know what Drury might have done to f*** the room up the way it is. Getting rid of Trouba and Goodies contract was and still is the right move but for whatever reason the players feel like it was handled the wrong way. Am I proud of how the players have handled things, f*** no but this is the situation right now and the easiest solution is to remove Drury.

As to why I believe the team is capable of turning it around? They have the talent. This is not a case of player decline. Not this fast and not with this group. No one can convince me that the team forgot how to play hockey over night en masse. Look at a player like Zibanejad. For all the rightful flack he is getting for his play he is still 4th on the team in points. That is with the minimal effort we all see on display game after game. Are you going to tell me that with just a little more effort he wont be at ppg pace?

Nah, these guys are waiting to flip the switch once they win this internal dick measuring contest.

Right or wrong it is what it is.

Was Mika giving his full effort last year? Because he was horrible then too. he and Kreider haven't been good 5v5 together since before covid. These issues didnt just pop up out of nowhere, and the players dont deserve the benefit of the doubt. They didnt allow Drury to make changes in the summer, and now that he wants to he's the villain? We all knew after they lost to Florida they werent good enough.

You don't get to be a flip the switch team when you've never won. Their behavior is wrong. The treatment of the fans who shell out big money to see them shit down their leg at home makes me irate. They deserve to be punished for that. If you dont trust Drury to be the retool GM, that's one thing. But if you're firing him to placate entitled players, it would be another black mark on the organization. This player mutiny is the most Dark Ages thing we've seen.

Toxic work environments don't heal themselves, they fester, become self-perpetuating, and worsen.

Drury is partly responsible. He must go. Laviolette is not to blame, but as part of this management team, he too must go.

"Punishing" players by trading them does not help. Knee-jerk trades don't work.

Something must give now, or in the off-season. This can't go on.

The players made it toxic. Drury did nothing wrong moving the players he did. These guys have barely even seen their ice time affected. Soft in the room, soft on the ice.

 

[eco's bones]

Speaking of Drury. I didn't like him as a player for us. He fit in with the Avalanche as a 3rd liner and on a Sabres team that was pretty much 4 lines deep. He didn't fit on the Rangers nearly as well but he was also getting older and in his last couple years he was pretty much in decline useless and injury prone and not willing to retire before his cap hit played out.

As a GM we have pretty much the same personality. I like his drafts. Some nice later round picks. The 2022 deadline trades were good. Trocheck and Quick have been good but some of his free agent signings not so hot.

My guess right now is if Drury is feuding with some of the vets on the team....some of those vets are going to go but if the Rangers right the ship and get at least into the playoffs he'll get canned at the end of the year and someone else will take over. Whether Laviolette makes it that far I'd say probably not.

On Zibanejad---he's been awful. He doesn't drive defenses back anymore nor does he turn defenders and it's one of the reasons his 5v5 took a shit. It is like he's lost an extra gear. That's bad but even worse his defensive zone coverage has been atrocious at times and cost us games and he's made numerous soft plays that have led to goals against. His linemate Kreider has done a disappearing act. We've been through that before with him but it had been a while and now as a leader but in his 30's with a significant cap hit it's less acceptable.

I've seen teams lose faith in each other and themselves before so it's not like this is new but it is unexpected coming off last season and the first few games of the year. It's something that can snowball throughout a season and putting shit back together might be a project for the next few years. For Drury to panic and sell off on everybody would be a mistake. He's got to keep enough players so as to have a structural framework to break out of this funk if not this year then hopefully next season.....even if he's not around for it.

 

[Machinehead]

I dont know what Drury might have done to f*** the room up the way it is. Getting rid of Trouba and Goodies contract was and still is the right move but for whatever reason the players feel like it was handled the wrong way. Am I proud of how the players have handled things, f*** no but this is the situation right now and the easiest solution is to remove Drury.

As to why I believe the team is capable of turning it around? They have the talent. This is not a case of player decline. Not this fast and not with this group. No one can convince me that the team forgot how to play hockey over night en masse. Look at a player like Zibanejad. For all the rightful flack he is getting for his play he is still 4th on the team in points. That is with the minimal effort we all see on display game after game. Are you going to tell me that with just a little more effort he wont be at ppg pace?

Nah, these guys are waiting to flip the switch once they win this internal dick measuring contest.

Right or wrong it is what it is.

The players feel like it was handled the wrong way because unusual tactics were used.

Waiving Goodrow to get around his NTC and threatening to do the same with Trouba was hardly business as usual.

I could give Drury a pass with Trouba, because he didn't sign the contract, and was forced to do whatever necessary to get out of it. He did sign Goodrow's contract and then basically turned around and fired him, after a very good postseason, let's not forget. I would be upset too. Everyone in that room has to feel pretty unsafe.

Now I know people will look at some of the guys they want to get rid of and say "based," but they're real people and this is their real job. There's a difference between accountability and mismanagement. There's a difference between scratching a guy, and going around a clause that he negotiated.

That's not to absolve this group of anything they've done. The team sucks and plays a grabass brand of hockey. That being said, I don't think there's any group of players that would be happy with this.

Again, I think Goodrow is the smoking gun. If it were a bunch of guys where Drury said "oh well, this isn't my team," he probably gets a pass for that. He went out and signed Goodrow himself.

Like I said, hate this group all you want, but not one group of players under the sun would be happy with that move.

 

[Siddi]

Was Mika giving his full effort last year? Because he was horrible then too. he and Kreider haven't been good 5v5 together since before covid. These issues didnt just pop up out of nowhere, and the players dont deserve the benefit of the doubt. They didnt allow Drury to make changes in the summer, and now that he wants to he's the villain? We all knew after they lost to Florida they werent good enough.

You don't get to be a flip the switch team when you've never won. Their behavior is wrong. The treatment of the fans who shell out big money to see them shit down their leg at home makes me irate. They deserve to be punished for that. If you dont trust Drury to be the retool GM, that's one thing. But if you're firing him to placate entitled players, it would be another black mark on the organization. This player mutiny is the most Dark Ages thing we've seen.



The players made it toxic. Drury did nothing wrong moving the players he did. These guys have barely even seen their ice time affected. Soft in the room, soft on the ice.

Whatever we as fans might feel, this is the situation we find us in and the least painful solution is to get rid of Drury. And lets be real, what Drury did to Goodie was a dick move.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The lack of self awareness among the players is astounding. They really do not give a f*** about the paying customer.

Toxic work environments don't heal themselves, they fester, become self-perpetuating, and worsen.

Drury is partly responsible. He must go. Laviolette is not to blame, but as part of this management team, he too must go.

"Punishing" players by trading them does not help. Knee-jerk trades don't work.

Something must give now, or in the off-season. This can't go on.

Here’s the problem with firing Drury.
You then literally handed the control of the team to the players.

“I don’t like my ice time” fire the coach.
“I shouldn’t be playing on a line with kids” fire the coach.

Drury told them “play better or you’re moved” and their response was to play like trash?

And then they had a problem with a bad player being moved?

I’m sorry. Moving trouba was the right decision.
Dolan should walk into the locker room, tell the players “Drury isn’t going anywhere
You’re welcome to waive no move clauses”

Players will never stop signing in New York.
The players are playing like garbage. Moving them is the right thing.

You cannot reward them for that kind of statement.
Fire the gm. That’s not a player decision EVER.

Mcdavid and Eichel both got railed for even suggesting players to add.
This is 100x worse.

And what Drury did isn’t that egregious. He gave Trouba an option of where to go.
That’s far more than he had to.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Fire Drury. Have his replacement replace the key pieces and the coach.

 

[B17 Apricots]

The players don't run the team. These guys have a sense of entitlement. They don't like the coach. They don't like the GM. Jim Ramsey was fired. Isn't Kreider the one common denominator? He has been here a while. The Rangers screwed their own rebuild by keeping him. Jeff Marek and Shayna were discussing the Rangers situation. Marek brought up the plan was to trade Kreider but the Rangers kept him. The Rangers kicked the can down the road.

Chris has always had the sense of douchebag entitlement. The Rangers wanted to get him out of BC after his sophomore year. He said no. Five years later find themselves in a spot where the team has checked out. The philosophy of keeping him was the wrong move. The Drury subtext mentioned Trouba and Kreider. That was no misstep.

Jeffy and Shayna also discussed the Rangers failed to develop Lafreniere and Kakko when they were in their ELC's. True. This organization prioritized Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad. That is true even today. 2024. Soon to be 2025.



The Rangers short circuited their own rebuild. Now the time has come to take a step back and minimize the damage. They can't turn back the clock.

Go to war with the players. Tony Montana style.

100% agree with you.

Even leaving out the rumored returns on Kreider, was this team really much better off? The crazy thing... when Laf "stunk" trying to acclimate himself to the league as a teenager/early 20s, the f***ing kid pretty much put up the same numbers as Kreider at 5v5. Their rate metrics are both very, very similar for Laf's first few years. That tells you all you need to know. One was a 20 year old, the other was a 30 year old. They could've ditched CK and they would've more or less got a similar impact. The only caveat to that is that Kreider really rounded himself in those years as one of the top net front guys in the league. He made a killing on the powerplay. He was generally a ~15 point guy his whole career on the PP and then exploded for 35 PP points in 21/22. Then the following year back down to 17.

Now would I think Laf could make that sort of impact on the PP right away? Maybe, maybe not... I don't know that you would've made him the net front guy. Maybe you would've put Kakko there and Laf in the bumper? I don't know, that's not really the point. It was a rebuild and they didn't prioritize them. But in other words, you would've gotten the same 5v5 production and maybe you would've gotten a small trade off temporarily on the PP. Maybe.

That was a huge issue during the rebuild and something I was always bitching about. Why are we prioritizing Strome when Chytil and Andersson should both be getting mintues? Why is Colin Blackwell spending half a season with Panarin during a rebuild? Even going back to Andersson and Kravstov it pissed me off. And people can say what they want about those 2... I don't absolve the players entirely but I think it's crazy to think the organization didn't have a hand in all these players shortcomings. 2 prospects (Laf/KK) that are some of the best in recent times from their region... and they both have major struggles. All these prospects, high pick after high pick, and they all just magically suck? Come on, I'm not buying any of it for a second. We heard about the things David Quinn prioritized. You really have to question what was going on. What were they even having these guys work on? How were they training their skills? We know Quinn was a shitshow. We know Gallant was laissez-faire. Really lame practices. We've heard former players go to other organizations and comment that they've never practiced this hard when they get to the new team. This is our country club mentality. These kids came in here with the blind leading the blind. Zero direction.

And the sad part about all of it... people framed keeping Kreider as some sort of leadership thing to help guide the rebuild with a "winning culture". All that shit went out the window. Many of the young guys were stifled and the gross country club culture still remains.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

And hire who?

Ken Holland as an interim guy. IDK

 

[TGWL]

I have to attend an ugly sweater party. I"m really conflicted on what to wear...

 

[grachevsceiling]

Again, I think Goodrow is the smoking gun. If it were a bunch of guys where Drury said "oh well, this isn't my team," he probably gets a pass for that. He went out and signed Goodrow himself.

Like I said, hate this group all you want, but not one group of players under the sun would be happy with that move.

A sentence I never thought I’d hear in the English language but unfortunately makes sense.

 

[Ruggs225]

I hope we do fire Drury. I dont like him.

I also hope his replacement comes in and immediately trades kreider, miller, lindgren and tried to grt rid of zibs. Bc they are all toxic and need to go.

Plus if i were the new GM i would want to get rid of the players who backstabbed the previous gm so they couldnt do the same to me and get rid of the desdweight.

 

[haohmaru]

If the players are talking about Drury in closed room meetings (which I take with a HUGE grain of salt) instead of their effort then it’s pretty easy to figure out why they’re losing every game.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Any player upset about the Goodrow situation is out of line and overreacting. Goodrow did not have waiver protection in his contract, and was waived. Extremely black and white situation.

Whatever happened to “it’s a business” or does that only apply when you are wildly underperforming your cap hit and still getting paid?

I understand there is a human element and players are allowed to be upset I guess, but the risk of having to move / change situations due to actions of management is the bedrock of pro sports contracts.

 

[Siddi]

Another thing I want to add is that I actually beileve that there is no beef between the players and Lavi. They trusted in his system and that got them within 2 games of the SCF and a great start to this season. I think they bottled up the anger towards Drury after how he treated Goodie and kept on going but the shit hit the fan when Drury used the same methods again to move Trouba.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It's funny that these player's hate Drury so much. I totally believe that Drury is ruthless d-bag that doesnt care about the player's feelings. But I also think that's why he was hired by Dolan. The country club is not a recent occurrence at MSG. Lest we forget the Rangers axed Davidson, Gorton, Quinn and Buchnevich after the Wilson incident when the Rangers couldnt or wouldnt be bothered to defend their star players. It was an issue with the Knicks for years too, until they hired another ruthless executive named Leon Rose.

Rose used his connections to add Brunson when people thought it was crazy. Big win. Rose traded 2 homegrown fan favorites in RJ and Quickly for a massive upgrade mid-season in OG. Rose was at Julius Randle's charity event THE DAY BEFORE he shipped him out for KAT. Divincenzo was so pissed by the trade he tried to fight Rick Brunson during a preseason game this year lol. It's all worked out amazingly for the Knicks. They are a legit contender for the first time since the 90s.

Drury has not been ruthless enough imo, and has to go much further with remaking this team. They have on paper needs, but they also need a heart transplant. The only thing firing Drury now does is embolden continued player apathy and its naive and juvenile to not see that.

Firing Laviolette? That's a different story. He's not helping his cause with the mixed messaging with the benching's and scratches. But unless you're hiring Coach Q, who on paper is a fit for team needing a large kick in the ass and a commitment to defense, what's the point. Drury might as well resign if he's going to let Michael Peca or someone like Jay Woodcroft steer the ship through the storm.

Drury doesn't seem to have a clue how to run a hockey team in the 2020's, it goes back to Hartford when he was fighting with young kids in a new country instead of trying to help them get better and I've said before he's not totally responsible for Andersson and Kravtsov's failings but he certainly derailed them before they got going and that didn't help. Kakko, has had his feet kicked out multiple times by this organization, his recent scratch and his scratches in playoffs for AHL players, Drury has had a hand in 3 highly thought of players becoming a side show. It's time for him to go before he wastes whatever remaining picks and prospects we have on this guy.