Off Sides
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- Sep 8, 2008
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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
- Start date
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HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Overall thoughts as of 2/27:
Holden: B
Grabner: C+
Nash: A-
McD: B+
Miller: D
Direction of the team / pulling the trigger: A+
Not unexpected at all, but I doubt any 1F/1D players came back in these deals, though Howden and Hajek have more skill than many give them credit for. Right now the NYR have one prospect in the organization with that upside. Again - did not expect that they would acquire another at the TDL. But it is a fact that ultimately the success of this rebuild will be determined at the draft table.
One way or another they need to acquire an elite player for this next generation. Targeting "character" to develop a new generation of Dubinskys and Anisimovs to be traded for Rick Nash(s) in 2022 is not a long term Cup-caliber plan. In totality this franchise can't try to build the same type of farm they built a decade ago minus the HOF goaltender.
Additionally I would argue that they should not sign a bunch of JVR/Kovalchuk UFAs this Summer and pick 12-20th next year. That could spiral this far down barring crazy lottery luck.
I can only hope they see this.
Holden: B
Grabner: C+
Nash: A-
McD: B+
Miller: D
Direction of the team / pulling the trigger: A+
Not unexpected at all, but I doubt any 1F/1D players came back in these deals, though Howden and Hajek have more skill than many give them credit for. Right now the NYR have one prospect in the organization with that upside. Again - did not expect that they would acquire another at the TDL. But it is a fact that ultimately the success of this rebuild will be determined at the draft table.
One way or another they need to acquire an elite player for this next generation. Targeting "character" to develop a new generation of Dubinskys and Anisimovs to be traded for Rick Nash(s) in 2022 is not a long term Cup-caliber plan. In totality this franchise can't try to build the same type of farm they built a decade ago minus the HOF goaltender.
Additionally I would argue that they should not sign a bunch of JVR/Kovalchuk UFAs this Summer and pick 12-20th next year. That could spiral this far down barring crazy lottery luck.
I can only hope they see this.
MarkMessyay11
Registered User
Just some lines/thoughts that stand out to me. Gorton has his head on right, IMO...has be believing in this thing already.
I've been away all day, can anyone help me catch up -- has Gorton made any worthless trades yet today? Buch to Tampa for a 7th rounder maybe?
On a serious note, I don't really disagree much with this, but would hardly give McD more than a C. Like what is a "worse" deal than what we got? Its really ugly. Gorton got rental value for him. Should have been more, but its not a disaster. The JT Miller trade is of course E minus. The problem is, volume-weighted those two trades overshadows the rest.
I also think its a huge mistake to go so hard after these LD's. Think its bad management. First of all, to develop these Ds you need to give them a strong environment and let them play to their strength. It takes time to develop them too. They are also easy to get a hold of, there is a reason everyone is trading them, its a area of strength for everyone. Would definitely have preferred some good prospect wingers instead of -- only -- LDs. Cept Howden of course.
The direction we are going into -- like it or not, if we are going there lets go there. No half arsed attempt. And Gorton seems deadbent on doing it properly. That is great.
Have you made any posts that contributed something positive to the conversation today? Tried to not see everything so negatively maybe?
Gorton gets an A- from me for the way he handled this entire deadline. Think of how fans in Ottawa and Detroit must feel when they see us whining about how our GM botched the deadline. Get real. Imagine Islanders fans when they finish 9th or 10th in the east and Tavares leaves. We've started something real here, and we're headed in the right direction. Be happy
How do you want to do with the defense? Zone or man-man?
Think Ruff is an option if AV is going.
Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
I think they get one in this draft. They likely need another. Which is why they need another shot at the top five in 2019.
Off Sides
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- Sep 8, 2008
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"Coveted Hajek, couldn't get him earlier cause we had no picks"
Looked at Sather and rolled his eyes
Looked at Sather and rolled his eyes
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
He shouldn't be. This entire coaching staff except for Allaire should be spaced out of an airlock.
We're really in what is, for Ranger fans, uncharted territory. I've seen it happen with the Rangers maybe 3X: when Francis rebuilt a truly horrid team during the mid-60s and had it emerge as a power in the late 60s; the fairly quick rebuild that occurred after the end of the Francis era under John Ferguson (Duguay, Murdoch, Davidson, et al), and at the start of the most recent era after the long dark ages (Lundqvist, Staal, everyone else; 3 excellent coaches each adding something to the mix).
But what we have to realize is that there is no magic formula here. It is not as simple as "do this, do that, then do this, then do that" and, presto, an elite team! You can do everything right (including getting high draft picks for a few years in a row, have the right developmental coaches in place, etc) and it still may not work. We've seen, all to often, first round picks get hurt or worse. Projecting 18 year olds is not a science, as much as scouts would like it to be. Outside events impinge on players' lives. Personality plays a part (I always remember a photo of Ranger prospects during developmental camp in the year JT Miller was drafted. Maybe they were on the Circle Line or going to the Statue of Liberty, some group bonding activity. Everyone was smiling and happy except for JT, who just looked dour and upset: was this a harbinger of things to come?). Having the right vets around as mentors is important. Obviously the right coach. So many factors, many often out of a team's control.
Things look quite promising right now: Andersson, Chytl, all the guys we've acquired, the ones we are going to draft. But you just never know. We've seen teams with the best intentions fall into losing ruts that last for years and sometimes decades.
But we need to be realistic. We need not to rush the process. This is an exciting time if you are a hard core fan. It is something so many of year have wished for over and over again. It's going to be exciting watching kids come up and process. It is going to be upsetting watching some guys with high upsides wither and not make it. We seem to have the right GM. Coaching remains problematic. It's going to be bumpy. Hey, I'm 70 years old and have Ranger memories going back to 1958 and have been a hard core fan since 1962 but I'm excited to see what the future will bring.
But what we have to realize is that there is no magic formula here. It is not as simple as "do this, do that, then do this, then do that" and, presto, an elite team! You can do everything right (including getting high draft picks for a few years in a row, have the right developmental coaches in place, etc) and it still may not work. We've seen, all to often, first round picks get hurt or worse. Projecting 18 year olds is not a science, as much as scouts would like it to be. Outside events impinge on players' lives. Personality plays a part (I always remember a photo of Ranger prospects during developmental camp in the year JT Miller was drafted. Maybe they were on the Circle Line or going to the Statue of Liberty, some group bonding activity. Everyone was smiling and happy except for JT, who just looked dour and upset: was this a harbinger of things to come?). Having the right vets around as mentors is important. Obviously the right coach. So many factors, many often out of a team's control.
Things look quite promising right now: Andersson, Chytl, all the guys we've acquired, the ones we are going to draft. But you just never know. We've seen teams with the best intentions fall into losing ruts that last for years and sometimes decades.
But we need to be realistic. We need not to rush the process. This is an exciting time if you are a hard core fan. It is something so many of year have wished for over and over again. It's going to be exciting watching kids come up and process. It is going to be upsetting watching some guys with high upsides wither and not make it. We seem to have the right GM. Coaching remains problematic. It's going to be bumpy. Hey, I'm 70 years old and have Ranger memories going back to 1958 and have been a hard core fan since 1962 but I'm excited to see what the future will bring.
- Nov 2, 2011
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Deal Hayes, sign Kovalchuk - draft Boqvist or Dahlin (depending on where we get in lottery)
Zib stays at center, Chytil moves to LW (he is a left shot, Kovy is a right shot)
Kreider Tavares Buch
Chytil Zib Zucc
Spooner Namestnikov Kovalchuk
Vesey Andersson Fast
I see Andersson and Namestikov switching down the line, Andersson likely has a higher offensive ceiling. When Howden comes next year he can be 4C and Names goes to left wing.
Skjei Shattenkirk
Staal Boqvist
Smith DeAngelo/Pionk
Eventually Lindgren/Hajek/Rykov can take over the Staal/Smith left side.
Skjei, Hajek, Smith have all been able to play their off-side, if we get Dahlin or move stuff around down the line.
- Nov 2, 2011
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leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
I just hope that the team goes in the direction of being... having each other's back... type of club and not one that allows their stars to be mauled . There is nothing more demoralizing than watching that crap happen. It was great to hear that some of the blueline guys we picked up have some nastiness in them....they don't have to be Chris Nilan types but just somebody that will stand up like TonyD did with Simmonds . This team needs to start having each other's backs and the coach has to buy into that if he wants to have any sort of chemistry on the ice and in the room . Secondly...if somebody is going to be given a C...they better prepare themselves to at least be willing to drop the gloves like Crosby does ....winning is secondary ...dropping them is mandatory .
- Nov 2, 2011
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Ruff came here partially for his own agenda and partially to help AV. He didn't show anything, why would he be considered.
Clean house coaching staff this off-season.
- Nov 2, 2011
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Tawnos
A guy with a bass
I hope everyone who views NTCs as huge roadblocks to trades caught what happened yesterday with Paul Stastny.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
I agree
Gorton is going to want his guy. AV isn't his guy, he was Slats'. Ruff isn't his guy either
BobMarleyNYR
Rangers future on D
No, not if it is conditional 1st is protected.
If there is a mindblowing offer for Kreider now, then okay, a price for everyone. But absent that Kreider should be here at least another 3-4 years before we expect MAYBE the edge to his game is reduced and a less intensive return makes sense.
Which is a shame b'c I think esp if AV gone, as is something that just has to happen at some point sooner than later, he would have extended for 8 yrs at 4.25mper.
Miller is the guy EDM would have paid a premium for.
Should have packaged him w/Zib for Oiler 1st, Poolparty.
Can still consider Zib w/correct add.
The missed play was something around
McD, Zuc, Miller, Smith (half) Staal (half) 2019 + 2020 1sts
for
Karlsson, Chabot, Ryan, Ottawa 2018 1st
that ship has sailed.
Ott - There is a risk if the 1st is moved and nets 1OA, they can get burned. But it is a statistically small risk, mathematically. If it is enough overpayment to do that, they have to consider it.
Rangers eating half on both Staal + Smith is a start, with Ryan coming here at full pop. That is huge. We can still do the 2 1sts upcoming for their 2018 1st. Not sure how much more needs to be added and if we can squeeze Chabot out of it.
I have been saying this for upwards of 2 years, if you put him with Kreider as bookend 1Ws. Obvious chemistry together.
A good and noble dream IF you do a more expensive version of Shattenkirk. Overpay on 3 - 4 yr deal, 11 yr 1, 10 yr 2, 9 yr 3. possible rental end of term. No long term deal risking stuck if he has injury.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
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