Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[Alluckks]

I'd suggest you don't put it in writing if you can't back it up

I'll let others make real bets with you, I'm just telling you my confidence in the craziness of you (surprise surprise) hot take!

 

[Thirty One]

I think you're getting a little nutty but I can afford it, can you?

Yeah. I mean, I think you'll probably flake on it, but I think the odds are too good to pass up. The terms above? Shattenkirk is named captain before opening day 2018? Yes - I pay you $500. No - you pay me $500.

 

[NYR]

Yeah. I mean, I think you'll probably flake on it, but I think the odds are too good to pass up. The terms above? Shattenkirk is named captain before opening day 2018? Yes - I pay you $500. No - you pay me $500.

Dude stop talking shit already.
Your little one sentence wise cracks are some what amusing but getting old.
You want to lose your money then PM me..

 

[Thirty One]

Dude stop talking **** already.
Your little one sentence wise cracks are some what amusing but getting old.
You want to lose your money then PM me..

I will PM you a formal contract in the morrow.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I agree about the skilled player thing, but that is not a causal connection. Not all skilled players should wear letters and not all who wear letters are skilled players. It is why I said that your comment about letters being for superstars is a fallacy. Like I said, giving a player a letter should always, and usually does, have a lot more to do with what happens outside of game night - practice, locker room, offseason, etc.



Yah, he has never played less than 19:50 TOI in a season. There is no one in the NHL that would say a bottom pairing Dman plays 20-22 minutes a night. This is just some agenda bs with nothing substantive to back it up other than a hot take. He is at worth a 4th pairing guy, so labeling him as a "4-6" is just some straight up garbage. I'd say he is more a 2-3 and also excels on the PP.

Look at 5 on 5 time... and AV would say thats a 3rd pairing d Man lol

 

[NYR]

I will PM you a formal contract in the morrow.

In the morrow.
K..I'll hold my breath

 

[Thirty One]

In the morrow.
K..I'll hold my breath

Don't hold your breath overnight.

 

[Nopuckluck]

I hope Gorton is doing everything he can to pry Draisaitl out of Edmonton. How about Zucc, our two late 1sts and Namestnikov and Spooner for Leon D and a 2019 first?

That’s our Franchise center for the next decade

 

[bl02]

I hope Gorton is doing everything he can to pry Draisaitl out of Edmonton. How about Zucc, our two late 1sts and Namestnikov and Spooner for Leon D and a 2019 first?

That’s our Franchise center for the next decade

I would love to see how this trade proposal would go over on the main boards

 

[Lays]

Shattenkirk was on the 3rd pair for both st. louis and washington.... Just because our defense sucks and he can eat minutes doesnt mean hes at that level.

And I think theres a bit of causality there with giving skilled players letters. More often than not players are so skilled because of their effort level and their dedication to hockey. The instances of skilled guys with a bad work ethic are minuscule compared to the examples of skilled players that are highly motivated and have good work ethic

You really think he’s a 4-6 dman..? The same guy who put up 56 points last year? Your defense can be god awful but if you put up 56 points you’re easily a top 4 D, Shatty’s defense isn’t horrible. Also, by your logic is Malkin a 2C? Shatty played 2nd pair in St Louis and that’s only because he was behind Pietrangelo (top 5-10 Dman) whos a fellow RHD. He was behind Carlson and Niskanen (both top pair defenders and RHD) in Washington and that’s also mostly because the top 4 pairings were already set. He was injured the whole year for us and you’re basing it off this year I assume? Shatty is a 2/3 dman

 

[Lays]

I hope Gorton is doing everything he can to pry Draisaitl out of Edmonton. How about Zucc, our two late 1sts and Namestnikov and Spooner for Leon D and a 2019 first?

That’s our Franchise center for the next decade

Please don’t post this on the main boards. Why the hell do the Oilers do this. There is NOTHING realistic we can offer to get Drai out of Edmonton, even if they have Chia as a GM

 

[NYR]

I agree about the skilled player thing, but that is not a causal connection. Not all skilled players should wear letters and not all who wear letters are skilled players. It is why I said that your comment about letters being for superstars is a fallacy. Like I said, giving a player a letter should always, and usually does, have a lot more to do with what happens outside of game night - practice, locker room, offseason, etc.



Yah, he has never played less than 19:50 TOI in a season. There is no one in the NHL that would say a bottom pairing Dman plays 20-22 minutes a night. This is just some agenda bs with nothing substantive to back it up other than a hot take. He is at worth a 4th pairing guy, so labeling him as a "4-6" is just some straight up garbage. I'd say he is more a 2-3 and also excels on the PP.

You seem to love throwing around the term hot takes but in what world and 3 coaches and 3 teams later is he a 2-3 D?

 

[NYR]

You really think he’s a 4-6 dman..? The same guy who put up 56 points last year? Your defense can be god awful but if you put up 56 points you’re easily a top 4 D, Shatty’s defense isn’t horrible. Also, by your logic is Malkin a 2C? Shatty played 2nd pair in St Louis and that’s only because he was behind Pietrangelo (top 5-10 Dman) whos a fellow RHD. He was behind Carlson and Niskanen (both top pair defenders and RHD) in Washington and that’s also mostly because the top 4 pairings were already set. He was injured the whole year for us and you’re basing it off this year I assume? Shatty is a 2/3 dman

He's easily been outplayed on every team he's been on.
Producing point wise is great but if you can't defend it's like taking one step fwd and 2 steps backward.
How do you think he'd fare in tonight's game?
Here's the hard cold truth..He'd get lit the f*** up!
He can't even penalty kill and he's a top 4?
Staahhpp!

 

[Alluckks]

Look at 5 on 5 time... and AV would say thats a 3rd pairing d Man lol

He comes in at 96th in Even Strength TOI this season. That is right there are 2nd pairing even strength time - and that is with you entirely discounting him being one of the best PP men in the league. He is at 86th total time on ice. Saying he is 3rd pairing is just a bad opinion with absolutely nothing to back it up.

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats...time=0&pos=4&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&page=2

In fact, you've just made claims multiple times and made me do the research for you. You just say crap and then don't want to put in any effort to prove a point. When in reality your credibility just goes out the window when you make claims that just get proven wrong later because you're too lazy to look it up yourself.

 

[Alluckks]

You seem to love throwing around the term hot takes but in what world and 3 coaches and 3 teams later is he a 2-3 D?

In this world, I know you don't choose to recognize it.

I don't throw around "hot takes." It is a term used for people saying something to try and get a response out of people, and it is often when someone says something as as certainty without any actual substance backing it up. I provided concrete numbers. You provide opinions that go against the grain and then insults. There is a difference regardless whether or not you see it.

 

[BBKers]

What are you guys drinking? Rattlesnake venom? Give me some to wake me outta this catatonic coma...

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I would love to see how this trade proposal would go over on the main boards

Yeah they would say that's a bad offer for Drai but tbh it's way too much to give up for a not even elite C, even if he is really young. 3 legit roster players plus 3 1sts?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Putting aside the decline in his game, Staal has been an exemplary Ranger. I think he's a fine choice as an A. You don't have to give letters to your best players. It should be the guys who embody hard work, dedication and leadership. Staal fits that bill. IMO, anyway.

I don't want to give it to the best players either. That's not the issue. I never felt Staal was a leader. Not when he got the A years ago and not throughout the years.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Doesn't he still have like 4 years left on it? Little too long for my preference, but I also don't think we should be looking to add more picks for the 2018 draft at this point

Lucic + 10th overall for Staal + 29th overall?

 

[Vitto79]

So plenty of cap space to sign rfas and a good ufa


Thinking enough for a cap dump for pick too ?

 

[DutchShamrock]

There is literally a sportsbook on this site.

 

[Irishguy42]

Detroit wants to move 6OA but stay in the Top 10.

9OA plus 26OA for 6OA?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Detroit wants to move 6OA but stay in the Top 10.

9OA plus 26OA for 6OA?

9OA + 29OA maybe. Moving up 3 spots in the bottom-half of the top-10 should cost a late first or early 2nd.

 

[Irishguy42]

9OA + 29OA maybe. Moving up 3 spots in the bottom-half of the top-10 should cost a late first or early 2nd.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

What is the historical value of trading up that far?

I know there is a list compiled somewhere, but I don't recall where I saw it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah, that's what I figured.

What is the historical value of trading up that far?

I know there is a list compiled somewhere, but I don't recall where I saw it.

I need to bookmark my own posts haha. See below:

I know there's an overview with this info but that was rather limited. I took the time to put some more emphasis on the difference between trading with just picks, or trading with players involved.


Going back to 2010, these are the trades I could find of teams trading up solely using picks:

2017: 26th (DAL) for 29th + 70th (CHI)
2016: 26th (STL) for 28th + 87th (WSH)
2016: 18th + 3rd (WPG) for 22nd + 2nd (PHI)
2016: 16th + Datsyuk* (ARI) for 20th + 2nd (DET)
2016: 11th (OTT) for 12th + 3rd (NJD)
2015: 29th (CLB) for 33rd + 68th (TOR)
2015: 24th (PHI) for 29th + 61st (TOR)
2014: 20th + 179th (SJS) for 28th + 62nd (CHI)
2014: 28th (NYI) for 35th and 57th (TBL)
2013: 18th (SJS) for 20th + 58th (DET)
2012: 14th (BUF) for 21st + 42nd (CGY)
2011: 22nd (TOR) for 30th + 39th (ANA)
2011: 24th (OTT) for 35th + 48th (DET)
2010: 15th (LAK) for 19th + 59th (BOS)
2010: 22nd + 113th (MTL) for 27th + 57th (ARI)
2010: 30th (NYI) for 35th and 58th (CHI)

*Datsyuk already retired from the NHL, so this was just the cap hit traded to Arizona

And these are the teams who traded into the 1st (or up) with players involved:

2017: 7th overall + DeAngelo (NYR) for Raanta + Stepan (ARI)
2017: 31st overall + Sundqvist (STL) for Reaves + 2nd (PIT)
2017: 27th overall + cond. '18 1st + Lehtera (PHI) for B. Schenn (STL)
2016: 30th overall + '17 2nd (ANA) for Andersen (TOR)
2015: 21st overall (OTT) for Lehner + Legwand (BUF)
2015: 15th overall + two 2nd (BOS) for D. Hamilton (CGY)
2015: 13th overall + C. Miller + M. Jones (BOS) for Lucic (LAK)
2015: 16th overall + 2nd (NYI) for G. Reinhart (EDM)
2014: 24th overall + Sbisa, Bonino, 3rd (VAN) for Kesler + 3rd (ANA)
2014: 10th overall + Silfverberg + Noesen (ANA) for Ryan (OTT)
2013: 9th overall (VAN) for Schneider (NJD)
2013: 16th overall (BUF) + Hackett + J. Larsson for Pominville + 4th (MIN)

Posting this again since Gorton said they're looking to move up.


Here's a list in recent years as per CapFriendly.
2016: NJD trades #11 to OTT for #12 and #80 (3rd round)
2012: BUF trades #21 and #42 (2nd round) to CGY for #14
2009: NYI trades #16, #77 (3rd round) and #182 (7th round) to MIN for #12
2008: NYI trades #5 to TOR for #7, #68 (3rd round), and #37 in 2009 (2nd round); NYI trades #7 to NSH for #9 and #40 (2nd round)
2007: STL trades #9 to SJS for #13, #44 (2nd round), and #87 in 2008 (3rd round)
2005: ATL trades #8 to SJS for #12, #49 (2nd round), and #207 (7th round); ATL trades #12 to NYR for #16, and #41 (2nd rounder)

With our pick being 9th OA, and we want to trade up, this should be the realistic price (with a possible 7th rounder here and there):

8: our 3rd rounder
7: NJ 2nd rounder
6: our 2nd rounder
Anything higher will probably involve one of our late 1st rounders then.