haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Staal retiring would help this team immensely. I appreciate the guy and all he did with what he had, but it's time.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIII
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Especially for someone like Shatty, I think there is a big difference between playing for Tampa and playing for us. And to be honest, I don't think we had any offer on the table for Names, and that we jumped on the first opportunity to move him.
I fully agree with you that Staal should have been bought out though, but not instead of Shatty but in addition to him. And B Smith too. If we buy-out all three, we clean enough money to lock-up Lemieux, TDA and Buch to 5-6 year deals. TDA can probably be strong-armed into signing say a 5-6 year deal at 3.75m per. Buch maybe 4.5m per for 5-6 years? Lemieux is harder to predict what it would take.
In my world, maybe I am lost, but to me it just seems that (i) those deals would save us a big amount of cap space the coming years, and (ii) immensely increase the value on the trade market of the players in question.
I think you are right, but one thing.
I think its much more valuable to get a 1st round pick now than in March. We hit the jack-pot with the Winnipeg trade. But 9/10 times if you sell a player to a contender in March, that pick is going to be in the 24-31 range.
But looking at the league right now, how competitive it is, I just think that only a very limited number of teams are safe from facing adversity during the year. Florida and Buffalo have started great in the East. Like if they make the POs, which team will miss it? Right now Tampa is out of the POs and Toronto is in by 1 pt and have played 2 more games than MTL. Pittsburgh are on the verge.
If we got STL 1st round pick today, I would certainly not give up hope that it could become a pick we would get to make before 24 instead of after 24. They lost Taranseko. Playing let wears on you. So many teams making the SCFs have tackled off the season after. Before you know it they get a couple of injuries. There are very little marginals in this league.
NYI reaped the benefits of making an early move when they sent Hammonic to Calgary. Colorado did it with the Ottawa trade, although that is probably hard to repeat. But Calgary certainly thought that they wheren't giving up a lottery pick when trading their 1st for Hammonic.
The Rangers buyout both Staal and Smith in June. Both buyouts would add $6.35M to the buyout ledger for 20-21. The Rangers save $3.7M on the cap next season and open up two roster spots. The Rangers can replace them with entry level contracts. $13,844,000 in buyout money for 20-21. Both buyouts would add $1.85M to the buyout ledger for 21-22. The Rangers buyouts for 21-22 would increase to $4,394,444.
Quinn scratched Staal against TB. Everyone thought Staal would be the player to take the ceremonial puck drop during the Girardi tribute. Staal was a healthy scratch. That must have really hurt him. Some people said it was scumbag move. I loved it.
Quinn scratched Staal against TB. Everyone thought Staal would be the player to take the ceremonial puck drop during the Girardi tribute. Staal was a healthy scratch. That must have really hurt him. Some people said it was scumbag move. I loved it.
pld459666
Registered User
With Tank down for the year, that mindset may not be so rigid
NYR Viper
Registered User
How about:
Marc Staal for Victor Rask
Make the trade this season. If Rask performs well, play him next year and then re-assess. If not, just buy him out. Minnesota can either bite the bullet and play Marc for (1) more year or buy him out. It's possible they would prefer to just bite the bullet as they don't appear to be winning anything this year or next year. Perhaps Marc plays pretty well and they can move him at the deadline.
Rask Buyout
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Staal Buyout
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Marc Staal for Victor Rask
Make the trade this season. If Rask performs well, play him next year and then re-assess. If not, just buy him out. Minnesota can either bite the bullet and play Marc for (1) more year or buy him out. It's possible they would prefer to just bite the bullet as they don't appear to be winning anything this year or next year. Perhaps Marc plays pretty well and they can move him at the deadline.
Rask Buyout
| SEASON | INITIAL BASE SALARY | INITIAL CAP HIT | SIGNING BONUS | BUYOUT COST | POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS | SAVINGS | CAP HIT (
|
| 2020-21 | $4,000,000 | $4,000,000 | $0 | $1,333,333 | $1,333,333 | $2,666,667 | $1,333,333 |
| 2021-22 | $4,000,000 | $4,000,000 | $0 | $1,333,333 | $1,333,333 | $2,666,667 | $1,333,333 |
| 2022-23 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $1,333,333 | $1,333,333 | -$1,333,333 | $1,333,333 |
| 2023-24 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $1,333,333 | $1,333,333 | -$1,333,333 | $1,333,333 |
| TOTAL | $8,000,000 | $8,000,000 | $0 | $5,333,333 | $5,333,333 | $2,666,667 | $5,333,332 |
Staal Buyout
| SEASON | INITIAL BASE SALARY | INITIAL CAP HIT | SIGNING BONUS | BUYOUT COST | POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS | SAVINGS | CAP HIT (
|
| 2020-21 | $3,200,000 | $5,700,000 | $1,000,000 | $1,066,667 | $2,066,667 | $2,133,333 | $3,566,667 |
| 2021-22 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $1,066,667 | $1,066,667 | -$1,066,667 | $1,066,667 |
| TOTAL | $3,200,000 | $5,700,000 | $1,000,000 | $2,133,333 | $3,133,333 | $1,066,667 | $4,633,334 |
Yeah, and I mean, if you are a team that played over 100 games last season and have a roster of players that to some extent at least might be a little gassed, you can say a lot of things about Kreider but he would certainly make the wheels roll.
With that said, I am not sure if Kyrou is the guy. Just because we shouldn't deal for a center his age if we weren't absolutely sure that he was going to be an upgrade over Chytil, Lias and Howden. And if we could be absolutely sure of that, why would STL deal him?
But I am all for sending Kreider to STL for picks. Make it a Gorton special, Kreider for a 1st in 19', a 2nd in 20' that becomes a 1st if Kreider resigns in STL and a 3rd in 21' or whatever.
I wouldn't be super keen on getting Boston or Washington's 1st round picks in 2020, but of the 29 other teams in this league, I think its really hard to speculate with any certainty on where they would end up in the standings. We where soooo close to getting Dallas' 1st round pick this year, that pick could easily end up being top 10...
BTW I definitely approve of RB talking about the buy-out scenarios in other terms than "costs" and "savings". If you have a player that easily can be replaced, if not upgraded, with a minimum contract/ELC -- that player's entire cap-hit is only a cost.
Like Staal. I think he has been trashed too much the last years. If anything, I thought that he last year even was slightly better than the years before that. But this year he has just been a mess so far. Move on. Its the same with Smith. Move on.
And like, I think its a bit backwards how we "value" these things. Its certainly possible to calculate on how much value an open roster spot has in itself. Are we taking that value into account with these things? Players are available for free of waivers or on your farm. If you have an open roster spot those players can be claimed or promoted. By offering them that open roster spot, you utilize an opportunity to have an asset increase value that you otherwise would not be able to do.
The marginals between better players and the players on the outside looking in is getting smaller. There are many OK players in the AHL or scratched regularly. There are certainly players out there that could thrive if they got a shot in the right role for them. There are many casualties from the numbers game. Danny Briere passed through waivers before he became a star. MSL passed through waivers before winning the Hart. Grabner fetched us a good return, he was waived.
Like Staal. I think he has been trashed too much the last years. If anything, I thought that he last year even was slightly better than the years before that. But this year he has just been a mess so far. Move on. Its the same with Smith. Move on.
And like, I think its a bit backwards how we "value" these things. Its certainly possible to calculate on how much value an open roster spot has in itself. Are we taking that value into account with these things? Players are available for free of waivers or on your farm. If you have an open roster spot those players can be claimed or promoted. By offering them that open roster spot, you utilize an opportunity to have an asset increase value that you otherwise would not be able to do.
The marginals between better players and the players on the outside looking in is getting smaller. There are many OK players in the AHL or scratched regularly. There are certainly players out there that could thrive if they got a shot in the right role for them. There are many casualties from the numbers game. Danny Briere passed through waivers before he became a star. MSL passed through waivers before winning the Hart. Grabner fetched us a good return, he was waived.
How about:
Marc Staal for Victor Rask
Make the trade this season. If Rask performs well, play him next year and then re-assess. If not, just buy him out. Minnesota can either bite the bullet and play Marc for (1) more year or buy him out. It's possible they would prefer to just bite the bullet as they don't appear to be winning anything this year or next year. Perhaps Marc plays pretty well and they can move him at the deadline.
Rask Buyout
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
SEASON INITIAL BASE SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT SIGNING BONUS BUYOUT COST POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS SAVINGS CAP HIT ( MIN)2020-21 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 $0 $1,333,333 $1,333,333 $2,666,667 $1,333,333 2021-22 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 $0 $1,333,333 $1,333,333 $2,666,667 $1,333,333 2022-23 $0 $0 $0 $1,333,333 $1,333,333 -$1,333,333 $1,333,333 2023-24 $0 $0 $0 $1,333,333 $1,333,333 -$1,333,333 $1,333,333 TOTAL $8,000,000 $8,000,000 $0 $5,333,333 $5,333,333 $2,666,667 $5,333,332
Staal Buyout
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
SEASON INITIAL BASE SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT SIGNING BONUS BUYOUT COST POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS SAVINGS CAP HIT ( NYR)2020-21 $3,200,000 $5,700,000 $1,000,000 $1,066,667 $2,066,667 $2,133,333 $3,566,667 2021-22 $0 $0 $0 $1,066,667 $1,066,667 -$1,066,667 $1,066,667 TOTAL $3,200,000 $5,700,000 $1,000,000 $2,133,333 $3,133,333 $1,066,667 $4,633,334
does the Wild need defense? why would they want someone who sucks
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
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Imo the only team that might take Staal would be Ottawa and we would have to give something of value with him. It took a 1st rounder to get rid of Marleau this summer and he wasnt even that bad last year so it might take atleast a 2nd to dump him and you might even have to pay some salary. If the organization would just keep him as the 7th guy and let his contract run out I'd be happier
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,304
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Don't buyout anybody. Just healthy scratch Staal until he asks for a trade.
he also had a 35+ contract which made the buyout really rough.
SA16
Sixstring
There is no need to pay to trade Staal or to buyout Staal. Just don't play Staal. He can sit as a healthy scratch for the next two years and collect his money or if he really has an issue with it I suppose they can agree to mutually terminate the contract.
Rongomania
Registered User
Gotta stop these Staal deals. Never gonna happen. Makes Wade Redden look like Dahlin.
NYR Viper
Registered User
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Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
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Just offer him a position with the team if he retires.Ruffs coaching spot preferably
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 36,378
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Could also cook up some b.s. ltir excuse for Staal next year. Everyone else is doing it.
I can't imagine Staal or his family would be terribly opposed to letting him get paid to not take a physical beating for a year. Get someone to look at his eye. Is his vision debilitating? Callahan had his back issues and Hossa had his equipment allergy.
I can't imagine Staal or his family would be terribly opposed to letting him get paid to not take a physical beating for a year. Get someone to look at his eye. Is his vision debilitating? Callahan had his back issues and Hossa had his equipment allergy.
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The quicker we can jettison Staal and Smith, the quicker the rebuild can go. I liked the idea of buying both out, swallowing a 12 mil pill next season and then it becomes very manageable.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
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I think you only buyout if you really have to to get the guys you want under the cap. Buyouts turn a one year big problem into a two year slightly smaller problem.
Paulie Walnutz
HFNYR JUST AS SOFT AS NYR
- Oct 1, 2008
- 11,139
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Because they only accept guys who are old, overpaid and on Social Security
- Sep 17, 2007
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Does Staal still want to play? I would assume he does, but if he gets scratched enough this year, maybe that will change.
LTIR isn't ideal, which is why Chicago traded Hossa's contract after he went on LTIR. If the move it to simply get him off the roster and not actually use the LTIR cap space, then fine.
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
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Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
There's almost no way I can get behind buying out anyone else this summer, let alone both Smith and Staal.
They have one year left after this season, just wait it out. Smith is fine as he is, and put Staal in the pressbox, there are enough ELC defenders to make up for the money wasted on him
They have one year left after this season, just wait it out. Smith is fine as he is, and put Staal in the pressbox, there are enough ELC defenders to make up for the money wasted on him
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
if I were him I wouldn’t do it either. One can dream though.
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