Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[IDvsEGO]

I mean there are still Bobrovsky and Vasilevskiy contracts to consider both of whom are closer to Shesterkin level than the rest. The point is that $11m is really in line for the best goalie for the next 8 years and should be reconsidered by the Russian. If he needs to save face make it $11.25 or something ala Swayman negotiations (but maybe offset it with more team friendly structure).

Vasy signed for 9.5, and then we watched as tampa had to essentially gut its team.
The cap has gone up slightly since then, not a huge amount.
The market for goalies is set.
I'd rather not break the market for a player who's great, but not going to carry us to a stanley cup.
He's claiming to be the best player on the team, and he's not.
Thats panarin or fox.

His play last year overall was only 14.2 goals above expected. Thats a 5m contract not a 11.5m contract. He's not putting up .940 seasons, he's putting up .910-.920
His run in 21-22 seems more the aberration than the expected.

 

[bhamill]

If Igor gets $12 Mil from the NY Rangers, who then is the sacrificial mule/s? After the Trouba drama i would assume he is staying put till the end of his deal.

$11,100,000 Coming off the books with 5 players.
Smith's $3,750,000 expires.
Vesey's $800,000 expires
Lindgren's $4,500,000 expires
Quick's $1,275,000 expires
Ruhwedl's $775,000 expires

Some real Key RFA's due significant raises.

RFA's
Lafreniere (8mil?)
Miller
Kakko
Cuylle
Jones
Edstrom
Rempe

Trouba is gone in the off season so that’s 19 mil coming off. And the cap rises by 4mil. That’s 23 million to get’er done.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

@Clark Kellogg

Rangers rank 7th in height, 8th in weight.

NHL Team Biometrics: Average Age, Height, and Weight | leftwinglock.com

NHL Team Biometrics: Average Age, Height, and Weight.

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Sounded like a job for the Amazing Kreiderman.
TY

 

[TGWL]

Honestly, and this won't be popular, but it's possible Drury and his team could choose to move on From Chytil in the off-season if he has a good year. There may still be concerns over his health and they may be able to sign a veteran center on a short term deal for cheaper than $4.375m per season. The ever discussed Yanni Gourde is a UFA this upcoming off-season.

Trade Chytil for a young, cost controlled LD and sign Gourde?

The problem is that in a year nobody will bat an eye at players like Gourde making more than 4.3 if he can get back to a high 40 pace. He will alsos be turning 34 2 months into next season. Don't really know if that makes us better and doesn't seem to save us much money.

 

[bhamill]

Of course he does. His internal replacements if needed would come in at about $1m while in even conservative estimates he’s going to be close to $4. Let’s say the difference is about $2.5m. Between cap increase and “losing” Trouba, Lindgren, Smith and this $2.5m for Kakko IMO this is all cap space that would be needed to address Shesterkin, Lafreniere and Miller without losing much else.

There’s no way you are getting a top notch defensive 3rd line forward who has scored at 0.5ppg, and even last season at 0.3PPG for 1m dollars. Kakko will come in between 2.5 and 5mil. 2.5 if he repeats last years scoring pace, 5 if he takes a step. In either scenario it very poor asset management to use him as a cap dump. And any player they might trade him for at value is going to cost about as much as him in AAV. THIS team ain’t trading him for futures unless it’s an overpay. Think that’ll happen? Doubtful. I’m 100% Kakko will not be a cap casualty. If he’s gone it’s to improve the hockey team and cap will come back with whomever we acquire.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The problem is that in a year nobody will bat an eye at players like Gourde making more than 4.3 if he can get back to a high 40 pace. He will alsos be turning 34 2 months into next season. Don't really know if that makes us better and doesn't seem to save us much money.

Exactly.
Unless we're moving Chytil for an ELC contract on a high end player. Say Hutson.
It doesn't actually make us better. We still have to replace his production, and then we have to pay the player who we get for him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sounded like a job for the Amazing Kreiderman.
TY

I couldn't quote the original message since the thread was already closed.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Igor would have to get near 14 mil on a contract without the 8 years to get 12.5 somewhere else. Even at 11 he'd have to get 12.5 somewhere else, does anyone think he'd get those numbers somewhere else? I think 11 is more than fair

 

[Clark Kellogg]

All the recent top goaltenders who have signed from Hellebuyck on down have signed for 8.5 and 8.25 million.
Igor’s camp wants 12 million?
That slightly over 41% of Hellebuycks contract.
As great as Shesterkin is, I don’t believe he is 41 percent better the next 4 that just signed.
Trade him or let him finish out his contract and then compete against other bidders. I’d begrudgingly offer him 9.75 million (for his ego) x 8 or start looking at trade options.

 

[IDvsEGO]

All the recent top goaltenders who have signed from Hellebuyck on down have signed for 8.5 and 8.25 million.
Igor’s camp wants 12 million?
That slightly over 41% of Hellebuycks contract.
As great as Shesterkin is, I don’t believe he is 41 percent better the next 4 that just signed.
Trade him or let him finish out his contract and then compete against other bidders. I’d begrudgingly offer him 9.75 million (for his ego) x 8 or start looking at trade options.

I’m fine with 10. We can manage that. And he is a yearly vezina candidate. That level of consistency is something to want.
But he’s not .940 yearly.
If he was then I’d absolutely give him 12.
The last Hank contract is looked at as a major mistake as it handcuffed us.
We couldn’t lock up other pieces, which actually has us in the cap situation we’re in now.
Let’s not make the same mistake twice.

 

[kovazub94]

There’s no way you are getting a top notch defensive 3rd line forward who has scored at 0.5ppg, and even last season at 0.3PPG for 1m dollars. Kakko will come in between 2.5 and 5mil. 2.5 if he repeats last years scoring pace, 5 if he takes a step. In either scenario it very poor asset management to use him as a cap dump. And any player they might trade him for at value is going to cost about as much as him in AAV. THIS team ain’t trading him for futures unless it’s an overpay. Think that’ll happen? Doubtful. I’m 100% Kakko will not be a cap casualty. If he’s gone it’s to improve the hockey team and cap will come back with whomever we acquire.

And this is where Kakko’s perspective comes in. Some of posters think that him signing one-year contract was a sign of his long term loyalty to the organization whereas I think it was acknowledging the convenience to both parties in order for him to move on after this season if not earlier. We shall see which is it.

 

[MrAlmost]

Panarin over here helping ranger negotiations. You're not the best player Igor. Top 3 though, sure.

 

[B17 Apricots]

Vasy signed for 9.5, and then we watched as tampa had to essentially gut its team.
The cap has gone up slightly since then, not a huge amount.
The market for goalies is set.
I'd rather not break the market for a player who's great, but not going to carry us to a stanley cup.
He's claiming to be the best player on the team, and he's not.
Thats panarin or fox.

His play last year overall was only 14.2 goals above expected. Thats a 5m contract not a 11.5m contract. He's not putting up .940 seasons, he's putting up .910-.920
His run in 21-22 seems more the aberration than the expected.

I dont like what the broadcast team said last night one bit. I don't know if this is the agent's sentiment or if this is Igor's thoughts, but I didn't like to hear that. They said he wants to be the highest paid player on the team because he thinks he's the most important player on the team. He said he wants to be the highest paid goalie because he thinks he's the best goalie in the league.

He has zero issues with handicapping the team. On personal level, great go get that money make as much as you can. In terms of being a fan, who the hell wants to hear that? The way the broadcast team reported it last night it rubbed me the wrong way. It came off incredibly arrogant and narcissistic. After they said it I pretty much felt, here's 10 million.. you don't want it go f*** yourself.

 

[TominNC]

Lots of fans taking it personally.

 

[IDvsEGO]

And this is where Kakko’s perspective comes in. Some of posters think that him signing one-year contract was a sign of his long term loyalty to the organization whereas I think it was acknowledging the convenience to both parties in order for him to move on after this season if not earlier. We shall see which is it.

I think if he didn’t have any desire to stay in New York, he sits on the offer from Drury and looks for an rfa offer sheet.
He absolutely is worth one. He’s a former 2nd overall, with great defensive metrics and at least one very positive offensive season.
You take a gamble on players like that.

He chose not to. You say convenience and I don’t see it. What convenience? He doesn’t have to move? He makes less money so his taxes are easier?

 

[Fitzy]

Panarin over here helping ranger negotiations. You're not the best player Igor. Top 3 though, sure.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, just presenting the counter argument, but over the last 4 seasons, do NYR go further in the playoffs sans Igor or sans Panarin?

Because that's the case for Igor.

 

[bhamill]

And this is where Kakko’s perspective comes in. Some of posters think that him signing one-year contract was a sign of his long term loyalty to the organization whereas I think it was acknowledging the convenience to both parties in order for him to move on after this season if not earlier. We shall see which is it.

He’s still RFA at season’s end… he can’t just move on. And why would the team want that? The fact is he’s not a liability at his current cap hit and if we resign him he still wont be. He’s going to get a contract commensurate with his performance this year. A young player getting paid correctly who still has some upside… He makes ZERO sense as a cap dump. Trouba, Lindgren, Zibs (if not for his NMC)… players not living up to their contract. Players that are past their peak. That’s who get salary dumped. Kakko even in his current form is an ASSET with further upside. If he’s moved it won’t be a cap dump. And if it helps the team none of us will be opposed to it.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'm not trying to be an asshole, just presenting the counter argument, but over the last 4 seasons, do NYR go further in the playoffs sans Igor or sans Panarin?

Because that's the case for Igor.

Fair, but I also don’t love paying players based on playoff success which can be extremely volatile. What happens if Igor isn’t quite as good or is closer to average the next couple of playoff runs? It’s not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Paying Igor even $11M at this point would be a pretty unforgivable error by Drury.

Unfortunately for him, positional value is real. Based on the recent comps that have come in that factor in the "salary cap explosion" there is really no logical way to justify $11M for Igor let alone more than that.

 

[Daves a mess]

Panarin over here helping ranger negotiations. You're not the best player Igor. Top 3 though, sure.

Bread
Rempe






Igor

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Paying Igor even $11M at this point would be a pretty unforgivable error by Drury.

Unfortunately for him, positional value is real. Based on the recent comps that have come in that factor in the "salary cap explosion" there is really no logical way to justify $11M for Igor let alone more than that.

He already offered 11, I don't think there's any way in hell he's going to come back with a lower offer. The only things the other signings could possibly do is further highlight how outrageous he and his agent are for demanding for 12.

 

[Levitate]

I'm not trying to be an asshole, just presenting the counter argument, but over the last 4 seasons, do NYR go further in the playoffs sans Igor or sans Panarin?

Because that's the case for Igor.

The other case though is we see in a game like the one against Utah that even the best goalie in the league can get lit up if his team isn't helping him defensively. So...is it a better use of money to find an OK goalie for 3 mill and spend $4 mill per on two other players to solidify the lineup and improve team defense and/or team scoring?

I don't want to play goalie roulette where every year we're wondering who the new guy is and hoping he has a decent season and cursing if he's unreliable, but I don't think $11-12 mill on a goalie is a good idea.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

The other case though is we see in a game like the one against Utah that even the best goalie in the league can get lit up if his team isn't helping him defensively. So...is it a better use of money to find an OK goalie for 3 mill and spend $4 mill per on two other players to solidify the lineup and improve team defense and/or team scoring?

I don't want to play goalie roulette where every year we're wondering who the new guy is and hoping he has a decent season and cursing if he's unreliable, but I don't think $11-12 mill on a goalie is a good idea.

See a lot of parallels with Saquon and the NYG.

For the NYG investing Saquon’s money into the oline was absolutely the right choice. They are (more like ‘were’ prob w Thomas injury…) getting decent oline play and the entire offense has looked better including at times the running game, despite the RB position collectively being much weaker.

(And yes I’m sure SB is about to light the NYG up this weekend, but it’s about what’s better for the Giants in a vacuum)

He already offered 11, I don't think there's any way in hell he's going to come back with a lower offer. The only things the other signings could possibly do is further highlight how outrageous he and his agent are for demanding for 12.

I’m sure you are right but at this point $11M is a major unforced error by Drury

 

[MrAlmost]

I'm not trying to be an asshole, just presenting the counter argument, but over the last 4 seasons, do NYR go further in the playoffs sans Igor or sans Panarin?

Because that's the case for Igor.

And that's a good argument. Probably go further without panarin than Igor. However, I think we all see the issue paying panarin as much as we do for him not to produce in the playoffs. It would be equally stupid to pay a player that over produces in the playoffs in the hope that you are even good enough to get there. What if we pay too much for too few players and now we got great playoff players that can't make the playoffs cause the team is shit?

I don't know what the answer is here, but I know I'm happy I don't have to make it. Haha

 

[kovazub94]

I think if he didn’t have any desire to stay in New York, he sits on the offer from Drury and looks for an rfa offer sheet.
He absolutely is worth one. He’s a former 2nd overall, with great defensive metrics and at least one very positive offensive season.
You take a gamble on players like that.

He chose not to. You say convenience and I don’t see it. What convenience? He doesn’t have to move? He makes less money so his taxes are easier?

See your argument is largely based on the availability of a path via RFA offer sheet which is by and large not a thing in today’s NHL, mostly a small exception to the rule. The only real path for Kakko is to work with Drury and wait until he gets more control over his career (in a business sense) as he gets closer to becoming a UFA.