Toggle sidebar

Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIII: Have no fear, the TDL is near (Mod Post page 233, #5809 - READ IT)

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
  • We are currently aware of "log in/security error" issues that are affecting some users. We apologize and ask for your patience as we try to get these issues fixed.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Lol miller is not a give it all on the ice type of player... he just hits occasionally. Half the reason he finds himself in the bottom six most games is because he make incredibly lazy plays leading to some of the worst turnovers I’ve seen and he thinks he’s datsyuk but has below average hands
 
  • Like
Reactions: RGY
Capt McDonut said:
Lol miller is not a give it all on the ice type of player... he just hits occasionally. Half the reason he finds himself in the bottom six most games is because he make incredibly lazy plays leading to some of the worst turnovers I’ve seen and he thinks he’s datsyuk but has below average hands
Click to expand...
Miller has been more frustrating than Brendan Smith this year for the reasons listed above AINEC.

The expectations are so much higher with Miller so the disappointment has been even greater. He was a one of the key players who needed to take the next step with Stepan being traded and he has done anything but that. In fact his game has regressed. Had we made the playoffs I would be terrified with him getting important minutes. He is pretty much an idiot. People had questioned Kreider’s Hockey IQ, but it is pretty clear Miller’s is practically non-existent. You can blame AV and is system all you want, but it is Miller who constantly, constantly makes egregious turnovers in the neutral zone and from behind his own net.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vinny DeAngelo
So what about something like this:

McDonagh for Foote + Howden + Stephens/Hejak + TB 1st '18 + TB 2nd '18 + Coburn

The bold is for cap dump purposes

And then the Rangers turn around and trade:

Coburn @ $2.7m (1m retained this year and next) for ________
 
haohmaru said:
On top of that, Kovalchuk is exactly the type of player that they seem like they want to avoid. He's a talented scorer, but he's not interested in playing defense and you have to question his effort sometimes. Couple that with the fact that he completely screwed the Devils -AND- you're responsible for his contract no matter what (retirement, injury, back to Russia blues, etc...) because he's over 35 and it's a huge NO for me.
Click to expand...
I don't know where people get the assumption of Kovy being lazy and not playing good D. When he was in the NHL he was a 2way beast. He was what Nash wishes he could be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pavel Buchnevich
Boom Boom Apathy said:
McDonagh is a tough one. Rebuilds don't always take as along as some think. Toronto set out on that path after the start of the 15/16 season when they parted with Kessel and Phaneuf, and frankly, were in a similar spot as the Rangers are right now.

12/13: Leafs made the playoffs = 16/17 Rangers made the playoffs
13/14: Leafs struggled = 17/18 Rangers struggle
2014: Draft, Leafs got #7 OA pick (Nylander) and got the #22 OA pick (Kapanen) via trade = 2017 NHL Draft Rangers got #7 OA pick (Andersson) via trade and #21 OA pick (Chytl)
This is about where the Rangers are right now.
2015: Draft, Leafs got #5 OA pick (Marner) and an extra 1st (due to trade deadline deals the prior year), which they traded down to the 2nd (Dermott).
2016: Total tank job and got Matthews.
2017: Back in the playoffs only 2 years after parting with Kessel and Phaneuf.

The Leafs had some good, young (ish) pieces in place already (Reilly, Gardiner, Kadri, JVR, Bozak) so that when they rebuilt, it didn't take long. IMO, that's where the Rangers are. Rangers have a lot of good, young (ish) pieces still in place in NY (Miller, Kreider, Hayes, McD, Zib, Buch, Skjei) and with some shrewd moves, could be back in contention in as little as 1-2 years. Of course, it all depends on what spot you get in the draft, but I think the bones are there for a quick turn around if done right (unfortunately, as a Canes fan). Guys like Nash, Zucc, Grabner, Staal etc.. are easy moves. I'd be hesitant to move guys like McD unless the return is spectacular. I would hold on to most of the other young guys I mentioned unless it's a move for a young player that plays a different position (Offense for defense move for example).
Click to expand...

The Leafs took Nylander 8th overall in 2014 and Marner 4th overall in 2015.

The Rangers are looking at trading some of the players you mentioned as keepers.
 
NYR Viper said:
So what about something like this:

McDonagh for Foote + Howden + Stephens/Hejak + TB 1st '18 + TB 2nd '18 + Coburn

The bold is for cap dump purposes

And then the Rangers turn around and trade:

Coburn @ $2.7m (1m retained this year and next) for ________
Click to expand...

No.
 
RangerBoy said:
The Leafs took Nylander 8th overall in 2014 and Marner 4th overall in 2015.
Click to expand...

Yeah, for some reason my mind went back to where the Canes picked in those 2 drafts when I said 7th and 5th. Doesn't change the message in my post at all though, but thanks for the correction.

The Rangers are looking at trading some of the players you mentioned as keepers.
Click to expand...

I wasn't implying they were all "keepers", just that there are a number of young guys that can be kept to accelerate a rebuild. As a Canes fan, I'd rather see you guys move all of those young guys because IMO, rebuilds like that take much longer, vs. like what Toronto did and the Rangers are capable of doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pavel Buchnevich
So once 30 other NHL coaches have passed on taking Smith, someone tell me how it’s still because AV is to blame for his current level of play.
 
Avery16 said:
So once 30 other NHL coaches have passed on taking Smith, someone tell me how it’s still because AV is to blame for his current level of play.
Click to expand...
If they pass on him it is because a team is not taking on his AAV and term left with the uncertainty of their team’s roster through the trade deadline and into next season while staying under the cap.

So I would hardly try to exonerate AV based off of if Smith clears or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: haveandare
RGY said:
If they pass on him it is because a team is not taking on his AAV and term left with the uncertainty of their team’s roster through the trade deadline and into next season while staying under the cap.

So I would hardly try to exonerate AV based off of if Smith clears or not.
Click to expand...
If he’s a physical defenseman who can handle top four minutes without all the unforced errors in most systems, that AAV shouldn’t shy anyone away.
 
Last thing the Rangers need is to try to rebuild within 1 or 2 years. Unless they are picking 1st, 2nd overall or are lucky the players they draft are not even likely to be making a NHL impact by that point.
 
I find it interesting that Smith played great when he got here, before he knew AV's system. He comes in and just plays and does great. Maybe it's the whole contract year thing, maybe it's the system. We won't be able to sort it out from our seats.

We don't really have a choice. He gets the summer to get in shape and find his game. He shows up to camp and competes for a spot. No one is claiming him. No one is trading for him.

With Miller, that's another tough call. He has earned the strikes for work ethic and decisions but he had a bad situation with always getting moved around. Between center and wing, different line combination with AV's random line generator.

We aren't building a contender overnight. If Miller's value is low, now is not the time. Same for Smith. Hang on and no rash decisions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: haveandare
Boom Boom Apathy said:
McDonagh is a tough one. Rebuilds don't always take as along as some think. Toronto set out on that path after the start of the 15/16 season when they parted with Kessel and Phaneuf, and frankly, were in a similar spot as the Rangers are right now.

12/13: Leafs made the playoffs = 16/17 Rangers made the playoffs
13/14: Leafs struggled = 17/18 Rangers struggle
2014: Draft, Leafs got #8 OA pick (Nylander) and got the #22 OA pick (Kapanen) via trade = 2017 NHL Draft Rangers got #7 OA pick (Andersson) via trade and #21 OA pick (Chytl)
This is about where the Rangers are right now.
2015: Draft, Leafs got #4 OA pick (Marner) and an extra 1st (due to trade deadline deals the prior year), which they traded down to the 2nd (Dermott).
2016: Total tank job and got Matthews.
2017: Back in the playoffs only 2 years after parting with Kessel and Phaneuf.

The Leafs had some good, young (ish) pieces in place already (Reilly, Gardiner, Kadri, JVR, Bozak) so that when they rebuilt, it didn't take long. IMO, that's where the Rangers are. Rangers have a lot of good, young (ish) pieces still in place in NY (Miller, Kreider, Hayes, McD, Zib, Buch, Skjei) and with some shrewd moves, could be back in contention in as little as 1-2 years. Of course, it all depends on what spot you get in the draft, but I think the bones are there for a quick turn around if done right (unfortunately, as a Canes fan). Guys like Nash, Zucc, Grabner, Staal etc.. are easy moves. I'd be hesitant to move guys like McD unless the return is spectacular. I would hold on to most of the other young guys I mentioned unless it's a move for a young player that plays a different position (Offense for defense move for example).
Click to expand...

This post is good reading as a potential transition plan. I am curious to see how much the Rangers try to cheat it by looking for players that are close to peak (1st/2nd/3rdish year players in some deals like the Brass/Zibby deal) or if they opt for more futures and prospects 1-2 years away. I personally hope they do the latter.
 
To me there's a good foundation to build on

Start with kzb.
Figure that Hayes and fasth are staying.
On defense you've got Skjei and shattenkirk.

That's 7 prime assets to start off with.

Were set in goal so we can ignore that.

If things work out really well then lias and chytil will be rangers next year.
7 top 9 players.

I really like boo and Carey...that's 2 4th liners.

Figure staals not going anywhere and Kampfer is a totally acceptable number 7 defenseman.

So if you tear it down you're starting with this...

Kreider zibanejad bechnevich
? - Hayes - Andersson
? - chytil - fasth
? - boo - Carey

3 unknowns there and tons of cap space to fill in..need a few depth players as well.

Skjei - shatty
Staal - Ada
? - ?

Is this a cup contending team? No...But you've also added assets from McD Nash zucc Miller grabner Holden and dd...not to mention our own likely top. Draft pick.

I'm excited.
 
  • Like
Reactions: haveandare and Kovalev27
Hopefully the market bears what we're looking for. I'm glad the front office was open and forthright with their plan. But with a premium on high picks, not just in the NHL but the NBA/MLB as well, we may not get what we're all aiming for. Let's hope for the best. I think a lot of us, myself included, saw with the Stepan trade that the pieces we expect back for our guys aren't as available as we hope.
 
I’ve been saying it but will not surprise me at all if we go all in for Tavares and the players inferno just listed as a foundation is the reason why.

This won’t be a total rebuild because we do have some real good players here. Adding Tavares pushes Zibanejad down to second line puts Hayes in a great spot on third line. Maybe you start the two kids as wingers early in their careers. Andersson has already played wing plenty of you put one of them at 4C and get back to our identity of running 4 skill lines.

Do I think it happens? No. But won’t surprise me if we send graves drury and leetch our with the DVDs again to tavares’ house
 
  • Like
Reactions: Inferno
I don't think Tavares is the guy to go after. The summer after that seeing names like Karlsson, Doughty, OEL and possibly even McDonagh is what I would be waiting for. Take your medicine this year and next year and then grab one of those guys
 
That Friedman piece,

Nothing like starting off a rebuild with a ~10M-11M cap hit on Tavares for 7 years. While bringing back some combination of Nash, Grabner, and adding them to Kovalchuk. That is so not like the Rangers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Samuel Culper III
My NHL 18 rebuild:

Neal-Tavares-Reinhart
Dubois-Zib-Point
Domi-Dvorak-Buch
DeBrusk-Komarov-Fast

Skjei-Montour
Dahlin-Tony D
Jacob Larsson-Chris Wideman

Gibson in net
Come at me bro:sarcasm:
 
RGY said:
Miller has been more frustrating than Brendan Smith this year for the reasons listed above AINEC.

The expectations are so much higher with Miller so the disappointment has been even greater. He was a one of the key players who needed to take the next step with Stepan being traded and he has done anything but that. In fact his game has regressed. Had we made the playoffs I would be terrified with him getting important minutes. He is pretty much an idiot. People had questioned Kreider’s Hockey IQ, but it is pretty clear Miller’s is practically non-existent. You can blame AV and is system all you want, but it is Miller who constantly, constantly makes egregious turnovers in the neutral zone and from behind his own net.
Click to expand...

Considering how badly everyone wants to make excuses for Smith and give him another chance under a different coach, I’d be a lot more eager to make excuses for Miller who is younger, better, more important, etc. Maybe Miller has checked out mentally a bit because he’s grown tired of AV jerking him around from wing to C and back, as well as trying to take the grit out of his game and ask him to be Datsyuk instead when he isn’t. Or maybe it’s the opposite and he was simply asked to do too much for a young player who is really a winger in the first place and the attempts at being Datsyuk, etc. are the effects of a young guy who feels pressure to step a game or be a player that he isn’t? I’m not saying any of this with certainty but considering how much of a pass Smith gets around here, I would much rather we give our own home grown kid that same benefit of the doubt before we sour on him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HatTrick Swayze, Off Sides and Avery16
I like j.t. but he doesn't fit what this team is going for in the future...speed and cost controlled...he will be super expensive and he's a poor skater that will only get worse...at least lias Anderson whose an ok skater is still young enough that maybe youlk see some improvement.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom