Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[Clark Kellogg]

I don't know.....these are exactly the trolling kind of statements Stan would make about the Rangers back in the 70's and 80's when he was a regular columnist in the Hockey News. He's really much more attuned to the Devils and Islanders and always has been since the inception of both of those teams. He's always been something of a crap talking /gossip hound journalist and that's not really changed.....trying to live off pissing off one side to favor another. In the past it gained him notoriety which also got him work. Basically he's a grifter (but for some a very likable one) and always has been.

I've never taken what he's said all that seriously because there's always been an agenda and not really much analysis. He belongs to the age of the Bill Chadwick's. He may be more knowledgeable about subways than he is about hockey.

Does he still have a following? Maybe among Ranger hater’s? For those people it’s like they found their old man’s playboy magazine and now they’re in the bathroom.
Kinda sad for Stan and anyone who still listens to his hockey takes.

 

[mas0764]

The difference being that Hank actually was the only reason we even made the playoffs for years. Igor has had 1 historic season but never shown the consistency of Lundqvist. And nothing against Igor as a playoff performer, but wake me when he shuts out a team in a Game 6 or 7 (or back to back) like Hank did every year.

Also sad to say but isnt the fact that we paid Henrik and he retired cupless a good reason not to pay Igor an exorbitant amount?

Wise

 

[eco's bones]

Does he still have a following? Maybe among Ranger hater’s? For those people it’s like they found their old man’s playboy magazine and now they’re in the bathroom.
Kinda sad for Stan and anyone who still listens to his hockey takes.

I don't hate the guy but I've never really thought he was all that knowledgeable about the game and he's never really cared for the Rangers at all.....not that he necessarily should but then he should at least make an attempt to be fair . Bissonnette these days kind of trolls us like he use to do. Bissonnette maybe a bit smarter all in all but he's an ex-player.

 

[haohmaru]

Trouba clearly a value contract...

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Being able to replace trouba $8mm with mancini’s elc on bottom pair next year is huge for our cap situation. Do we like pettersson to play with fox/schenider?

 

[bernmeister]

Can we make it official?

I [and others] said Cuylle - Chytil - Kakko was a real thing, w/real chemistry. We were right. For now, stop moving KK up and Cuyle down. Ride these guys, no changes going forward.

Ditto 2nd line, bread - Tro - LaF, except if we can move Panarin for value we should...
Ditto top line, I said Kreider will be a lifer, he keeps himself in peak physical shape, should be here another 5 yrs/+
Zib ok but if we can do better we should

4th line RempEd and bpa

 

[bernmeister]

Last nite reinforces what I suggested earlier:

ok here's a bern special...

DEAL 1
rights to Anton Silavey LD 10OA 2024 draft 6'7 [elc deal once signed]
Simon Nimec RD 2OA 6'1 elc 2 yrs remaining 918,333 x 2
Palat LW 6m x 3
Haula C/LW 3.15m x 2

for

Panarin W 11,642,857 reduced 5,642,857 to 6m per x 2
Trouba RD 8m reduced 3m to 5m x 2
Jones LD plays either side, 812,500 elc expiring -> rfa

4 players for 3 — cap ballpark assumes Silavey not yet signed
2 elcs almost cancel out
Rs are sending Ds just under 20m value reduced to 11 for 2 yrs
to get close, Jersey sends NY 9.15
this puts Devils 1.85 in the hole [half of which would go weee Silavey signed]
they have currently* 1.75m cap space per capwages.com and they want a small cushion regardless but obv they can move some small contracts and be there easily
[* as of date I first posted this]

Assessment:
NJ gets immediate help for 2 yrs on current window
NY more for flexibility but with youth added for age, extends its window = better

Jersey -
Panarin younger much better than Palat, who is not bad
Trouba not as good as Nemic but as 3RD behind Pesce and Hamilton anyway mitigates loss of 3RD
Jones is useful, they are thin in lefthanded backliners
can absorb loss of extra F from within, esp since bread is currently best player in the deal

Gotham -
paying a high price, but get younger replaces Trouba w/better RD, ends drama now
Silavey is a stud LD, some thought he would go higher, will help when he gets here 1-2 yrs
see Palat Haula moved subsequently

Rangers D now =
Fox (switched to LD) - Schneider
KAM - Nemic
Scanlin/bpa - Mancini


DEAL 2
Shesty 5,666,667 currently, reduced by 2.666,667 to 3.0 x 1, expiring (permission granted to set extension in advance, retained by Leafs going forward)
Zib 8.5 x 6
Haula C/LW 3.15m x 2
total cap 14.15
for
Nylander 11.5 x 8
Knies 925k elc expiring ->rfa
Liljegren 3m x 2 expiring
tml 2027 1st
total cap 15.425

Leafs have close to zero cap space, Rangers get paid to accommodate
besides using last retention are now under 1m deficit cap on this deal

to recover, Rs will move Lindgren 4.5 expiring, and probably Palat 6m and Liljegren, Vesey, etc

rationale: Leafs cannot do another yr more of the same. They have to take a bold initiative. Shesterkin could be dif on cup, Zib replaces most of Nylander, Haula is ok 3rd line pivot/F stopgap

Rs get better pure scorer in Nylander which helps now, 6-8 yrs hence maybe/maybe not, but overall recovering value for Shesty, can promote Garand backed by Quick, reinforced by Domingue
add a promising younger W in Knies

=================================

post trade Rs are handcuffed 2 seasons cap wise as to retained $$$, but get out from under long term structural cap = mo important, add high quality youth for vets, some vets remaining can be moved for futures

Kreider - Edstrom - Nylander
Knies - Tro - LaF
Cuylle - Chytil - Kakko
Smith- Brodz - Rempe
Carrick, Groulx
presumes Palat is moved

Fox (switched to LD) - Schneider
KAM - Nemic
Scanlin - Mancini
but around the corner Silavey, Emery, Fortescue

================
when Gabe Perreault is ready, he gets first crack at 1RW w/slot now created, Nylander over to pivot, Edstrom reunites with Rempe

Othmann can marinate this season
We prob keep LaF going forward, but he is a hedge insuring we have a step in if LaF next contract is crazy.

 

[Machinehead]

View attachment 914561

Trouba clearly a value contract...

Whole team positive

 

[TGWL]

Some insider mentioned Utah could make a big splash this year. Send Shesterkin to Utah where he can sign his big money, 8 year deal and play with Sergachev. Aim for Tij Iginla and a 2025 1st round pick.

Then pipe dream would be flipping Iginla (and Garand?) to Calgary for Dustin Wolf. Let him grow into the starter role with Quick as his mentor.

View attachment 914016

There's no way we're bringing back Tij Iginla, and even if we did, we certainly wouldn't be flipping him for Dustin Wolf.

 

[TGWL]

Last nite reinforces what I suggested earlier:

ok here's a bern special...

I am not going to quote the entire post. But just know it takes two to tangle. The other team has to see the benefit in doing it. You don't just get to have everyone's top prospect like this is a video game. Most often than not these block buster trades don't happen, and when they do, it's generally 1 player for a block buster/high package, not multiple top prospects/players.

 

[bernmeister]

I am not going to quote the entire post. But just know it takes two to tangle. The other team has to see the benefit in doing it. You don't just get to have everyone's top prospect like this is a video game. Most often than not these block buster trades don't happen, and when they do, it's generally 1 player for a block buster/high package, not multiple top prospects/players.

fair 'nuf

but that said. comprehensive scenario usually can't be skimmed down cause it means one side gets shortchanged

as to "other team has to see the benefit in doing it" I believe I took pains to sufficiently demonstrate that.

Leafs - Shesty are a fit
what they give up is a wince, but they arguably profit, as do we

ditto Jersey, taking into acct we are eating so much cap for 2 yrs
for nyr, short term pain -> long term gain and we extend our window
If Jersey sufficiently all in immediately, then this gets their approval also

 

[Savant]

View attachment 914561

Trouba clearly a value contract...

if Braden Schneider is able to play consistently in his off side, that’s going to be a huge help

 

[duhmetreE]

Biggest issue with the org is dead weight.

Mika is not a 1C. ( the bigger issue is not his contract per se but that he gets all the top offensive responsibilities when there’s clearly better options )

Trouba is a bottom pairing defenseman.

Replace Trouba and Lindgren with actual good defenseman. Demote Zibs.

That’s our full potential imo

 

[McRanger92]

Biggest issue with the org is dead weight.

Mika is not a 1C. ( the bigger issue is not his contract per se but that he gets all the top offensive responsibilities when there’s clearly better options )

Trouba is a bottom pairing defenseman.

Replace Trouba and Lindgren with actual good defenseman. Demote Zibs.

That’s our full potential imo

Mancini takes Trouba's role over the next year+ and Chytil eventually gets top 6 minutes while Mika plays a more offensive Jordan Staal shutdown role as he ages. That would be my vision as we transition from the NMC core to the rebuild core.

 

[Ail]

Man don't you guys feel silly now? 114 pages of trying to theory craft the best roster when this one is already literally perfect!

 

[GAGLine]

Mancini takes Trouba's role over the next year+ and Chytil eventually gets top 6 minutes while Mika plays a more offensive Jordan Staal shutdown role as he ages. That would be my vision as we transition from the NMC core to the rebuild core.

That's entirely dependent on Mancini continuing to develop into a top 4 dman and Chytil staying healthy.

 

[duhmetreE]

Mancini takes Trouba's role over the next year+ and Chytil eventually gets top 6 minutes while Mika plays a more offensive Jordan Staal shutdown role as he ages. That would be my vision as we transition from the NMC core to the rebuild core.

That's the ideal situation.

Chytil stays healthy and realizes his potential.

An actual top4LHD is acquired. Mancini hopefully has time to develop while taking the 3-RD role

Laffy replaces Zibs on the PP

 

[McRanger92]

That's entirely dependent on Mancini continuing to develop into a top 4 dman and Chytil staying healthy.

Chytil health for sure but Trouba hasnt really played like a top 4 D. They will need outsid hires in the d-core imo (as soon as this deadline) but when you've got a rookie RD you can prject he'll get better with experience

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I am not going to quote the entire post. But just know it takes two to tangle. The other team has to see the benefit in doing it. You don't just get to have everyone's top prospect like this is a video game. Most often than not these block buster trades don't happen, and when they do, it's generally 1 player for a block buster/high package, not multiple top prospects/players.

two to tangle is a quality malapropism, gonna start saying that

 

[bhamill]

Some here didn't think he had a shot at making the team. He played really well in preseason. Lindgren's injury might have helped but even if he goes down after Lindgren returns to the lineup I think he's very close to being a mainstay on our D.

When Lindgren comes back, Mancini likely goes to Hartford, no waivers. When Lindgren is traded (or allowed to walk after the season) a spot on D is Mancini’s. Also Trouba likely gone this off season. At latest I see Mancini as a regular next season.

 

[Cygnus 2112]

two to tangle is a quality malapropism, gonna start saying that

like the sacred and the propane- ah, Little Carmine.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I didn’t see much of the game, but did it look as if Trouba moved a lot better than he did last season? Maybe the trade rumors got his attention or he’s healthier.

 

[GAGLine]

Chytil health for sure but Trouba hasnt really played like a top 4 D. They will need outsid hires in the d-core imo (as soon as this deadline) but when you've got a rookie RD you can prject he'll get better with experience

That isn't relevant since that's exactly why we are replacing him. The idea is to replace him with someone who can play top 4. If Mancini can't handle that role next season, then we'll have to wait until Emery is ready and hope he can do it, or sign or trade for someone who won't come cheaply. How sure are we that we'll find someone who is better and cheaper than Trouba, and available to sign or trade for?

I'm not advocating we keep Trouba by any means. I'm just suggesting that replacing him isn't nearly as easy as people like to make it sound. And we do have to consider that we have Emery waiting in the wings, and Lindgren will probably be gone too. If we end up paying both Shesty and Laf, we may not have the cap space to spend on multiple dmen. Left defense will be the higher priority as Schneider can slide up into Trouba's spot rather than playing his offside and then paying for a RD. Mancini can play 3RD and not be pressured to take on a role he might not be ready for.

 

[McRanger92]

That isn't relevant since that's exactly why we are replacing him. The idea is to replace him with someone who can play top 4. If Mancini can't handle that role next season, then we'll have to wait until Emery is ready and hope he can do it, or sign or trade for someone who won't come cheaply. How sure are we that we'll find someone who is better and cheaper than Trouba, and available to sign or trade for?

I'm not advocating we keep Trouba by any means. I'm just suggesting that replacing him isn't nearly as easy as people like to make it sound. And we do have to consider that we have Emery waiting in the wings, and Lindgren will probably be gone too. If we end up paying both Shesty and Laf, we may not have the cap space to spend on multiple dmen. Left defense will be the higher priority as Schneider can slide up into Trouba's spot rather than playing his offside and then paying for a RD. Mancini can play 3RD and not be pressured to take on a role he might not be ready for.

Schneider is pretty obviously his direct replacement in the top 4. They need a top 4 LD from outside the organization.

 

[noncents]

schneider replaces trouba
mancini replaces schneider