Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[Boris Zubov]

If kappo has a break out year he will probably get traded. Ranger prospects are all wings and I doubt they break the bank on a guy who has had more mediocre seasons then good ones. Plus he has never had success on the top two lines. Terrible combo

Rangers nightmare.....Shesty signs in Carolina next year.

No chance Dundon coughs up the kinda dough that Igor is asking for. He's a notorious cheap skate.

 

[Kocur Dill]

If kappo has a break out year he will probably get traded. Ranger prospects are all wings and I doubt they break the bank on a guy who has had more mediocre seasons then good ones. Plus he has never had success on the top two lines. Terrible combo

Rangers nightmare.....Shesty signs in Carolina next year.

If Kakko breaks out this year it opens the door for Kreider, Trouble, and Bread to be ushered out in the next 2 year with Kappo and Laf as the top 6 replacements and new leadership core for another retool while Shesty is still Prime.

We aren't riding Kreider, Panarin, and Ziba into their twilights like Pitt and Washington have done.

Ziba is serviceable at his cap hit through the end of its term, especially with cap going up and no one in the system to replace him.

The only way I see Kappo traded is if he isn't cutting it, or has a minor improvement over last season and/or scrapes by at his previous all time high.

Nailing down Kappo (star level) and Laf at less than 14m combined is the difference between a rebuild and a retool. I'd imagine a rebuild with Shesty on the books isn't a good look.

 

[Flan the incredible]

No chance Dundon coughs up the kinda dough that Igor is asking for. He's a notorious cheap skate.

If the Canes had Igor and the Rangers had Freddie they win that serious easily. They will have plenty of cash and if they fall flat this year I bet he entertains the idea. The system they play and the age of their core they are an immediate cup contender for the next 5 years.

 

[Flan the incredible]

If Kakko breaks out this year it opens the door for Kreider, Trouble, and Bread to be ushered out in the next 2 year with Kappo and Laf as the top 6 replacements and new leadership core for another retool while Shesty is still Prime.

We aren't riding Kreider, Panarin, and Ziba into their twilights like Pitt and Washington have done.

Ziba is serviceable at his cap hit through the end of its term, especially with cap going up and no one in the system to replace him.

The only way I see Kappo traded is if he isn't cutting it, or has a minor improvement over last season and/or scrapes by at his previous all time high.

Nailing down Kappo (star level) and Laf at less than 14m combined is the difference between a rebuild and a retool. I'd imagine a rebuild with Shesty on the books isn't a good look.

I disagree. Trouba is gone no matter what and Panarin they are going to try and resign. Kreider is on a steal of a contract and offers a skillet not found much in the NHL. The hate he gets is ridiculous.

Rangers arent paying kappo for 1 good season just as they didnt pay him for his 40 point season. Even if he breaks out its all about consistency. Paying him 5 or 6 mill and having him revert to what we have seen in the last few years would be a massive mistake. There is simply no cap space if he breaks out and puts up 50+ points .

 

[IDvsEGO]

If Kakko breaks out this year it opens the door for Kreider, Trouble, and Bread to be ushered out in the next 2 year with Kappo and Laf as the top 6 replacements and new leadership core for another retool while Shesty is still Prime.

We aren't riding Kreider, Panarin, and Ziba into their twilights like Pitt and Washington have done.

Ziba is serviceable at his cap hit through the end of its term, especially with cap going up and no one in the system to replace him.

The only way I see Kappo traded is if he isn't cutting it, or has a minor improvement over last season and/or scrapes by at his previous all time high.

Nailing down Kappo (star level) and Laf at less than 14m combined is the difference between a rebuild and a retool. I'd imagine a rebuild with Shesty on the books isn't a good look.

Kakko takes the step we want to see, I absolutely see drury locking him up, and us looking to move mika and taking a swing at mcd.
Panarin's deal comes off the books in that same off season. We don't have any huge UFA deals to sign then, and the cap will also rise, replace Mika with MCD's production and you're suddenly looking at a very very scary lineup.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I disagree. Trouba is gone no matter what and Panarin they are going to try and resign. Kreider is on a steal of a contract and offers a skillet not found much in the NHL. The hate he gets is ridiculous.

Rangers arent paying kappo for 1 good season just as they didnt pay him for his 40 point season. Even if he breaks out its all about consistency. Paying him 5 or 6 mill and having him revert to what we have seen in the last few years would be a massive mistake. There is simply no cap space if he breaks out and puts up 50+ points .

It's not about consistency, its about paying for future performance vs past performance.
Kakko took a "show me" deal. he signed it 2 days after the season ended. That was absolutely a "i want to stay here, and i'm going to earn the deal".
Drury fails to pay kakko if he breaks out, it sends a message that a player should never want sign a "show me" contract.
We have the cap to sign kakko, its not that hard.
We're moving Lindgren, we're moving trouba, Shesty isn't going above 11 or he walks.
The cap is going up more than the 5 million it has.
We're gonna replace smith on our right side with perreault next year.
We actually have prospects. We've done well recently with drafting. The only thing we don't have is a center but thats a very very hard thing to get where we draft.

We'll be tight for 1 year, and thats it.

 

[TominNC]

Kakko takes the step we want to see, I absolutely see drury locking him up, and us looking to move mika and taking a swing at mcd.
Panarin's deal comes off the books in that same off season. We don't have any huge UFA deals to sign then, and the cap will also rise, replace Mika with MCD's production and you're suddenly looking at a very very scary lineup.

Replacing Panarin and Mika with McD?

Also, doesn’t Mika have a NMC?

 

[IDvsEGO]

Replacing Panarin and Mika with McD?

Also, doesn’t Mika have a NMC?

He does. But if we're moving off panarin, there's a chance we convince him to waive.
Also it would be more of a
replacing panarin with laf
replacing mika with mcd

 

[Savant]

If the Canes had Igor and the Rangers had Freddie they win that serious easily. They will have plenty of cash and if they fall flat this year I bet he entertains the idea. The system they play and the age of their core they are an immediate cup contender for the next 5 years.

Igor is going to go take a blank check from like Chicago. He isn’t leaving NY to go to Carolina. If Carolina breaks the bank it’ll be for a forward(s). They wanted Guentzel back BAD, and you can see the Guentzel sized hole in their lineup right now

 

[kovazub94]

If Kakko breaks out this year it opens the door for Kreider, Trouble, and Bread to be ushered out in the next 2 year with Kappo and Laf as the top 6 replacements and new leadership core for another retool while Shesty is still Prime.

We aren't riding Kreider, Panarin, and Ziba into their twilights like Pitt and Washington have done.

Ziba is serviceable at his cap hit through the end of its term, especially with cap going up and no one in the system to replace him.

The only way I see Kappo traded is if he isn't cutting it, or has a minor improvement over last season and/or scrapes by at his previous all time high.

Nailing down Kappo (star level) and Laf at less than 14m combined is the difference between a rebuild and a retool. I'd imagine a rebuild with Shesty on the books isn't a good look.

Star level Kakko? Let him first be a consistent 40-point player and maybe get (close) to 50-point threshold before we start mentioning his name in the context of forcing Kreider or Panarin out. Most of us just want enough offense out of Kakko to have the Rangers 3rd line be a difference maker.

 

[kovazub94]

It's not about consistency, its about paying for future performance vs past performance.
Kakko took a "show me" deal. he signed it 2 days after the season ended. That was absolutely a "i want to stay here, and i'm going to earn the deal".
Drury fails to pay kakko if he breaks out, it sends a message that a player should never want sign a "show me" contract.
We have the cap to sign kakko, its not that hard.
We're moving Lindgren, we're moving trouba, Shesty isn't going above 11 or he walks.
The cap is going up more than the 5 million it has.
We're gonna replace smith on our right side with perreault next year.
We actually have prospects. We've done well recently with drafting. The only thing we don't have is a center but thats a very very hard thing to get where we draft.

We'll be tight for 1 year, and thats it.

I disagree with your view on what this contract represents. I think it’s much less likely that Kakko stays here long term regardless of his performance this year (I’m taking a scenario where he’s suddenly 30-goal / 60 point player out of discussion because this is a pretty unlikely scenario). If Drury had an acceptable deal (whatever it is) offered to him Kakko would be gone - and also with little regret from Kakko. This one year deal IMO is to show to league that Kakko is a better player than what he was last year so Drury gets his trade and Kakko gets a better long term contract too.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Star level Kakko? Let him first be a consistent 40-point player and maybe get (close) to 50-point threshold before we start mentioning his name in the context of forcing Kreider or Panarin out. Most of us just want enough offense out of Kakko to have the Rangers 3rd line be a difference maker.

I didn't say forcing out.

But let's face reality here. This core is on thin ice.

If Kakko has a (relatively) ridiculous season out of nowhere like Laf did last year, and you have Shesterkin to deal with for the next 8 years, you gotta have a plan-d that includes the scenario where Laf and Kakko are the top 6 leaders and Kreider/Panarin walk or are used to restock the cupboard.

There is no way, competent management at the pro level, does not have dossiers of plans and scenarios with a tree of paths to take going forward.

 

[Ruggs225]

There is no way, competent management at the pro level, does not have dossiers of plans and scenarios with a tree of paths to take going forward.

Have u followed the NY Jets.

Though to be fair u did say competent management

 

[Boris Zubov]

If the Canes had Igor and the Rangers had Freddie they win that serious easily. They will have plenty of cash and if they fall flat this year I bet he entertains the idea. The system they play and the age of their core they are an immediate cup contender for the next 5 years.

That might all be true, but none of it addresses the point I made about their cheapskate owner. He's not paying Igor or anyone else $91M.

 

[bernmeister]

If Kakko breaks out this year it opens the door for Kreider, Trouble, and Bread to be ushered out in the next 2 year with Kappo and Laf as the top 6 replacements and new leadership core for another retool while Shesty is still Prime.

We aren't riding Kreider, Panarin, and Ziba into their twilights like Pitt and Washington have done.

Ziba is serviceable at his cap hit through the end of its term, especially with cap going up and no one in the system to replace him.

The only way I see Kappo traded is if he isn't cutting it, or has a minor improvement over last season and/or scrapes by at his previous all time high.

Nailing down Kappo (star level) and Laf at less than 14m combined is the difference between a rebuild and a retool. I'd imagine a rebuild with Shesty on the books isn't a good look.

Kreider is still the one guy who reliably gives beast factor and does what it takes to train to stay in optimal shape. Plus his # is beyond reasonable approaching bargain for what he delivers.
I see him here as long as he can cut it, 3-5 yrs min.

I disagree. Trouba is gone no matter what and Panarin they are going to try and resign. Kreider is on a steal of a contract and offers a skillet not found much in the NHL. The hate he gets is ridiculous.

Rangers arent paying kappo for 1 good season just as they didnt pay him for his 40 point season. Even if he breaks out its all about consistency. Paying him 5 or 6 mill and having him revert to what we have seen in the last few years would be a massive mistake. There is simply no cap space if he breaks out and puts up 50+ points .

Fully agree w/da bold and dat skillset.

As to KK, we should lock him up long term as a bargain, but not a crazy #.
Min would be 3.75-4.25 maybe 4.8 long term
it could be a bit more, but I don't see that
To protect us and the player, instead I see 5 or 6 yrs instead of 8
This way he can poise himself for a really big deal if he deserves it.
Right now, he is still learning how to be excellent w/anyone-everyone.
That is a step he may acquire, we hope, w/experience
It is enuf tho, that he is gellin w/kid line
Ride that kid line

Kakko takes the step we want to see, I absolutely see drury locking him up, and us looking to move mika and taking a swing at mcd.
Panarin's deal comes off the books in that same off season. We don't have any huge UFA deals to sign then, and the cap will also rise, replace Mika with MCD's production and you're suddenly looking at a very very scary lineup.

I'm with ya except we gotta expect McD most likely to re-up w/LeoDrai in EDM

But moving Mika NOW w/Shesty + for Nylander + Knies + is the way to go

It's not about consistency, its about paying for future performance vs past performance.
Kakko took a "show me" deal. he signed it 2 days after the season ended. That was absolutely a "i want to stay here, and i'm going to earn the deal".
Drury fails to pay kakko if he breaks out, it sends a message that a player should never want sign a "show me" contract.
We have the cap to sign kakko, its not that hard.
We're moving Lindgren, we're moving trouba, Shesty isn't going above 11 or he walks.
The cap is going up more than the 5 million it has.
We're gonna replace smith on our right side with perreault next year.
We actually have prospects. We've done well recently with drafting. The only thing we don't have is a center but thats a very very hard thing to get where we draft.

We'll be tight for 1 year, and thats it.

General extensive agree
I am not in favor of letting shesty walk for nada
deal now if TOR pays as I suspect they would
or if Igor wants do 4-ish yr deal for mo $$ but again, bend buckle and break on NMC and not unlimited ntc

that gives flexibility
we should replace Shesty w/Garand asap, b'c we need to repurpose Igor's value into areas of need
Garand will not immediately 111% doppelganger Shesty but he will be more than fine

I didn't say forcing out.

But let's face reality here. This core is on thin ice.

If Kakko has a (relatively) ridiculous season out of nowhere like Laf did last year, and you have Shesterkin to deal with for the next 8 years, you gotta have a plan-d that includes the scenario where Laf and Kakko are the top 6 leaders and Kreider/Panarin walk or are used to restock the cupboard.

There is no way, competent management at the pro level, does not have dossiers of plans and scenarios with a tree of paths to take going forward.

I agree on panarin, Mika + shesty -- our biggest $$$ contracts -- going to restock
dealing Kreider anytime soon makes no sense
Kakko is a replacement W even if he stays on kid line
moving KK when bread is gone be buh bye does not make sense

 

[bernmeister]

I would have gladly traded Igor. That’s not the reality that we live in though. We are going to be making moves to accommodate Igor rightfully or wrongfully. If losing Kakko is inevitable because they need the money to sign Igor and plug holes on defense, you simply have to trade Kakko for a Dman/assets to get a Dman. Nothing else on the roster, other than an Igor trade , is able to accomplish that. And again I have been saying trade Igor longer than everyone on here. That’s no longer a realistic option

1. I disagree trading Igor and getting signif return is "no longer a realistic option".
Fact that Garand who was arguably ready before but legit a risk not to be so, is now clearly ready to get eased in behind Quick makes Shesty exit easier than ever

2. We have to repurpose our most expensive guys
bread
zib
trouba
shesty
Lindgren

into value, like it or not
to fail to do so puts all our eggs in the current basket, which is risk stupid
we have some promising prospects along w/some solid younger core
add more quality youth and WE EXTEND THE WINDOW = MULTIPLE shots at MORE cups


As to acquiring a d man Mancini is a godsend.
Do the deals I suggested, replace Trouba w/Nemic as a result, adding a high quality prospect for the near future
Robertson looked good w/Mancini, small sample size I admit, but ... eye test.
Robertson/Scanlin w/Man could be hold the fort stopgap sufficient until Fortescue gets here

Also, in my scenario, we get Lilj back
We can maybe add and flip him for better lefty LD

 

[TominNC]

He does. But if we're moving off panarin, there's a chance we convince him to waive.
Also it would be more of a
replacing panarin with laf
replacing mika with mcd

What does Panarin have to do with Mika? Why would Mika want to move if you’re bringing in McD? Why would he want to go somewhere else in his mid 30s. As we saw with Trouba, players don’t just up and move when they have a NMC.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Igor may just think he's more likely to get 12 x 4 or 5 than 12x8. None of this has earned Igor points with me. I dont love Friedman and others reportage of the situation either.

There's this whole legend of Igor building bc we played two series against spam-shooting teams and Igor had a great performance. He's not a god he's a goalie. And if his hold up is needing to be the highest paid player on the roster, then he should do the math on his $/gp.

Bro sits on the bench for half the season. Hank got his contract, he was playing a CAREER LOW 62 game vezina season, a 42 out of 48 possible gp vezina runner up season, and a season where he would play ONLY 63 times bc of injuries.

Igor has yet to play 59 games in a year.

8.5mil/58 = $146,551.72 per game
11.6mil/82 = $141,463.41 per game

Just FYI, Igor.

Dont know why people keep bringing that up, then just ignore the playoffs?

90% of goalies dont play back to back games, do we need him playing against buffalo and the sharks of the league to wear him down?

Also last i checked he’s playing 60 min a game, while forwards are playing 20. Can we factor the salary like that too for minutes played per dollar?

Lastely, how many games does he miss whem the real season starts? You know, the playoffs? Where he also elevates his game to godlike mode and has the best numbers by any goalie in the last 4 post seasons?

He’s getting paid, by the Rangers. The sooner some posters come to terms with that better off everyone will be.

 

[bhamill]

If Kakko breaks out....good bye Kreider .....frees up a couple of million and makes Igor signing easier to swallow and also opens up a spot for Perreault next season. It certainly solves a few problems and gets us younger and possibly better at 5 on 5 play . Even without KK breaking out...I still move Kreider for a young Dman with upside since we are thin back there and to make more room for Edstrom-Cuylle-Perreault -Othmann next season......unless they get traded away for a D/player depth for the big playoff run this year .......a lot of things to digest .

Being a GM might be harder than we all think . A lot of moves to make and only so much Cap to work with . You have to do what you need to do to keep the club window open and if it means signing Igor and moving a fan fav....so be it .

I do not think Kreids should be going anywhere. He’s at 6.5m he could get us 40 goals again this year, and he’s unlikely to decline much during his contract. He’s a freak. Plus with the cap going up he’s worth his hit. At worst cut his 5v5 time and give younger guys more responsibility.

 

[bhamill]

Yup. That’s why I said something along the lines of Kakko for Liljegren. Not flashy but makes sense. Liljegren 1 year left at 3m (saves money compared to Lindgren); if he doesn’t work out just let him walk. See if Laviolette can do what he did with Sandin again. Don’t think there are a ton of options out there that make as much sense as this; as of now anyway. Mancini getting a spot would be great; but we need more than one

Letting Liljegren walk would be like letting Kakko walk then. Kakko for a similar situation dman, still young, some potential, has shown mid pair capability, needs a change of scenery, is not a bad idea… but I just don’t really like Liljegren very much. I don’t think he’s what we need. I’d rather keep Kakko at that point. At worst he’s a good middle six defensive forward. And cheap.

 

[Savant]

Letting Liljegren walk would be like letting Kakko walk then. Kakko for a similar situation dman, still young, some potential, has shown mid pair capability, needs a change of scenery, is not a bad idea… but I just don’t really like Liljegren very much.

best case scenario you only need him for one year and then you let him walk (like how we let Gus walk for Jones last summer). But yeah I mean Liljegren is that change of scene Dman. Who isn’t breaking the bank. Kakko’s value (rightfully or wrongfully) might not be all that high either. Think they can get a bit more from Toronto too; doesn’t have to be one for one

I don’t think he’s what we need. I’d rather keep Kakko at that point. At worst he’s a good middle six defensive forward. And cheap.

Kakko is only cheap this year though. Not going to be afford him next year

 

[RangersFan1994]

I do not think Kreids should be going anywhere. He’s at 6.5m he could get us 40 goals again this year, and he’s unlikely to decline much during his contract. He’s a freak. Plus with the cap going up he’s worth his hit. At worst cut his 5v5 time and give younger guys more responsibility.

And one of the few that scores in the playoffs. He leads Rangers in playoff goals in their history. Worth every bit of that contract

 

[bhamill]

best case scenario you only need him for one year and then you let him walk (like how we let Gus walk for Jones last summer). But yeah I mean Liljegren is that change of scene Dman. Who isn’t breaking the bank. Kakko’s value (rightfully or wrongfully) might not be all that high either. Think they can get a bit more from Toronto too; doesn’t have to be one for one

Kakko is only cheap this year though. Not going to be afford him next year

If he doesn’t break out we certainly CAN afford him, he won’t be getting much beyond his current 2.4mil. If he DOES break out, we pay him. Gladly, and are happy we didn’t trade him for Liljegren, who BTW will be getting 3mil AAV the next TWO seasons, can’t let him walk after this season… Like I said in the right deal you trade Kakko. I just dont agree Liljegren is the right deal.
JMO, buddy.

 

[Savant]

If he doesn’t break out we certainly CAN afford him, he won’t be getting much beyond his current 2.4mil. If he DOES break out, we pay him. Gladly, and are happy we didn’t trade him for Liljegren, who BTW will be getting 3mil AAV the next TWO seasons, can’t let him walk after this season… Like I said in the right deal you trade Kakko. I just dont agree Liljegren is the right deal.
JMO, buddy.

If Kakko doesn’t break out, why do we want him?

Liljegren UFA Summer 2026 (which is what we need). Basically going from Lindgren at 4.5 to Liljegren at 3 from a budgetary standpoint

Maybe there will be other deals that make sense this is just, to me, what makes the most sense right now. Need to see what else bubbles up

 

[noncents]

If Kakko doesn’t break out, why do we want him?

Liljegren UFA Summer 2026 (which is what we need). Basically going from Lindgren at 4.5 to Liljegren at 3 from a budgetary standpoint

Maybe there will be other deals that make sense this is just, to me, what makes the most sense right now. Need to see what else bubbles up

to use a "breakout" - based on an arbitrary round number of points produced - as sole basis for whether we try to sign him is bad process.