Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[duhmetreE]

EF on 32T. Igor wants $12M-$12.5M. He wants to be the highest paid player on the team.

CBA expires in 2026. New agreement will bring a big jump to the cap.

$92.5M next season and big jump in 26-27. EF said some people are thinking/hoping the NHL rips up the last season of the CBA. Bettman said earlier this at the BOG meeting that they are hoping to announce a new CBA before the Cup final. Some people hope the new CBA would start next season and not in two seasons. Gary isn't doing that.

sorry, 12.5 is absurd.

This isn't Hanks teams where we were devoid of talent. We actually do have some talent that needs to get paid.

I love Igor. He's the best goalie in the game.... He's not Nathan MacKinnon though. He plays 55 games out of 82. 10-11 is way more than fair.

 

[eco's bones]

There aren't that many elite players in the league and when you do get one you don't necessarily get to choose what position. You don't win Cups very often without elite players. St. Louis kind of did....the Bruins back in 2011. When you lose one also you don't very often find another elite player to replace him with. What team takes a step back if it doesn't have to? Igor is pretty much universally thought of as elite and the best goalie in the league.....and that's the case of why I think the Rangers are going to bite the bullet with him and give him the contract he wants. The other part of it is they have a 38 year old backup and their best prospect might become a good NHL player but expecting more probably is expecting way too much.

So on Raphael Lavoie. Just because you see a dime or a quarter laying on the ground doesn't mean you have to pick it up.

 

[IDvsEGO]

There aren't that many elite players in the league and when you do get one you don't necessarily get to choose what position. You don't win Cups very often without elite players. St. Louis kind of did....the Bruins back in 2011. When you lose one also you don't very often find another elite player to replace him with. What team takes a step back if it doesn't have to? Igor is pretty much universally thought of as elite and the best goalie in the league.....and that's the case of why I think the Rangers are going to bite the bullet with him and give him the contract he wants. The other part of it is they have a 38 year old backup and their best prospect might become a good NHL player but expecting more probably is expecting way too much.

So on Raphael Lavoie. Just because you see a dime or a quarter laying on the ground doesn't mean you have to pick it up.

The thing is, the rangers have other talents they’ll have to pay.
Hanks rangers would’ve won the penguins game 1-0.
We have multiple forwards and a defenseman who are considered elite talents.

There is no elite goalie who’s cap hit is even close to 12m. Most of us would be fine with 10.5-11. But when he’s asking for 2m over almost every other comparable, he loses me. He’s not 3-4 million better than say ullmark, or swayman, or Hellebuyck.

there’s a difference between wanting to be the highest paid player, and needing excess of that to stay in a location.
The leafs had to pay Matthews because they’re terrified he walks if he ever gets another offer(for good reason).
Igor walks and we’ll still make the playoffs, and might even make another deep run.

 

[McRanger92]

The fact that he's in talks for a team friendly contract after the last couple years - no powerplay time, team isn't maximizing his production ect. He must love being a Ranger. I wish other guys on the team would have the same attitude.

Probably some conversations had internally about him and Fox being the faces of the franchise as the NMC gang age out. Makes complete sense. Fox is a local kid Norris winner and Laffy is the highest draft pick in franchise history who is clearly on the upswing. Build around these guys going forward.

 

[bernmeister]

8x 8.25 make it happen please.

this is the # I called
but again
no nmcs for anyone
reasonable ntcs

 

[Kords]

Igor was great but Benny made him elite. Good chance he isn’t what he is without the Rangers. If he just wants to be the highest paid for the sake of being the highest paid he can frick right off. Let him test free agency at this point and stick at 11. I almost wanna see Drury drop the offer a quarter mil out of spite.

 

[TGWL]

I think some people worry about Trouba too much. Don't think there's much doubt he'll be moving next summer with only one year of term left and I expect the Rangers are going to re-sign Igor--$12 mil or bust. They'll do it. Rangers have 3 RD in Fox, Schneider and Mancini so that won't be a problem either. But anyway I don't think Drury will be f***ing around with any ifs, ands or buts this time. He's forewarned so it's a matter of dotting I's and crossing t's.

That doesn't mean the Rangers won't look to pick up a vet D on their left side.

But moving him doesn't guarantee moving the entire cap hit. Sometimes you have to eat some cap. Sometimes you have to take a player back. Sometimes, the player is so bad that year, you're going to end up eating more than you'd like. While, yes, Trouba is likely gone, the money saved may not be the full cap hit to use elsewhere.

 

[bernmeister]

....and that's .... why I think the Rangers are going to bite the bullet with him and give him the contract he wants. .....

So on Raphael Lavoie. Just because you see a dime or a quarter laying on the ground doesn't mean you have to pick it up.

value to dealing him now vs keeping dealing him later
even if have to eat some of that big #
key are clauses
we can do even13 x 3, 12.25 x 4, but again, club has total flexibility

otherwise, I see Leafs as a taker right now, good return our way

RapLav = yeah, you don't have to, but to just do a free pickup, no reason not to.
Deal Vesey + coupla others and there is room
He is a pivot

 

[Boris Zubov]

EF on 32T. Igor wants $12M-$12.5M. He wants to be the highest paid player on the team.

9.6M would make him the highest paid player on the team. His agent & his ego are out of control.

 

[eco's bones]

The thing is, the rangers have other talents they’ll have to pay.
Hanks rangers would’ve won the penguins game 1-0.
We have multiple forwards and a defenseman who are considered elite talents.

There is no elite goalie who’s cap hit is even close to 12m. Most of us would be fine with 10.5-11. But when he’s asking for 2m over almost every other comparable, he loses me. He’s not 3-4 million better than say ullmark, or swayman, or Hellebuyck.

there’s a difference between wanting to be the highest paid player, and needing excess of that to stay in a location.
The leafs had to pay Matthews because they’re terrified he walks if he ever gets another offer(for good reason).
Igor walks and we’ll still make the playoffs, and might even make another deep run.

Of course they do. It's partly also why we'll be cutting bait with Trouba and Lindgren next off season. It won't necessarily be because the fans have at least to some degree turned on those players. That doesn't mean shit to Dolan, Drury, Laviolette. It will because neither are really worth what they're being paid and because Sheshterkin, Lafreniere and to a lesser degree Miller's deal are coming up. But apart from those 3 I don't see big contracts coming up unless the Rangers choose to re-sign Panarin. But if they do it will be for less term and less money.

Also if you're gambling on no more global pandemics for a while (which is a legit gamble) and the cap going up year after year after year Igor's cap hit will get more and more manageable into the second, third, fourth years etc. The wonder then will be when will he starts to decline. Goalies in that can be a bit different than forwards and defensemen. For one thing they're not getting hit all the time. Henrik's decline started after 35. That's not unusual for goalies.

As far as Ullmark, Swayman or Hellebuyck are you suggesting that maybe we could dump Igor and get one of them because that seems a little farfetched to me and we would pay in players/prospects/draft picks for that and cap hit and term if we got any one of them too. A likelier scenario would be some midlevel goalie like a Montembeault or Merzlikins and hope that Garand turns into something.

Looking at last year. We probably make the playoffs without Igor but we wouldn't have been first overall and wouldn't have got the Caps in the first round. We might easily have been bounced in the first round and if not probably in the second. There's not even a controversy that Igor was our best player against both the Hurricanes and Panthers and it wasn't even very close to who was our second best guy. He was it.....end of story. We got as far as we did because he got us that far. Just think if we'd hung on to Georgiev (who is a midlevel NHL goalie) instead of Igor and he led us into the playoffs. How far do you think we would have gone in 2022 and 2024 with him?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

They’ll settle at 12 million and that will be that

Guarantee it gets done before the end of the calendar year

 

[IDvsEGO]

They’ll settle at 12 million and that will be that

Guarantee it gets done before the end of the calendar year

If we’re giving Laf 8ish, we’re not gonna be able to sign him to 12.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

$12M for Igor is complete insanity. Basing it on projected future cap increases…in the NHL…when they need a new CBA…would really be something.

 

[Ruggs225]

If we’re giving Laf 8ish, we’re not gonna be able to sign him to 12.

And if Kakko breaks out it will be even harder.

We might have to gut the team to afford him.

and he isnt $4m better than swayman, helly or Saros.

This is just insanity

 

[IDvsEGO]

And if Kakko breaks out it will be even harder.

We might have to gut the team to afford him.

and he isnt $4m better than swayman, helly or Saros.

This is just insanity

Kakko even if he breaks out likely gets probably a 4y x 5m

 

[NYR Viper]

Kakko even if he breaks out likely gets probably a 4y x 5m

For me, if Kakko gets to 40-45 points, I lock him up long term. Like 6 years x $4m if he'll take it

 

[Ruggs225]

Kakko even if he breaks out likely gets probably a 4y x 5m

And here is the biggest problem.

if miller and kakko have big years they need to be paid too. Where is this money coming from?

We cant move vets bc they all have NMCs. And if trouba blocks a trade we are really screwed.

I still think they should wait to offseason to sign Shesty. Sign laff now. Then see what miller and kakko want.

Cap is going to be nasty next year for us.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Get that Laf extension done yesterday

 

[IDvsEGO]

And here is the biggest problem.

if miller and kakko have big years they need to be paid too. Where is this money coming from?

We cant move vets bc they all have NMCs. And if trouba blocks a trade we are really screwed.

I still think they should wait to offseason to sign Shesty. Sign laff now. Then see what miller and kakko want.

Cap is going to be nasty next year for us.

Trouba isn’t blocking a trade.
His own responses make it clear he’s not.

The team gave him the year, he’s gonna respond by giving them a legit list where he’d move and not block it.

That frees up 7ish million (8m - replacement)

Assuming the cap goes up another 5 million.

Laf is a 6m jump.
If Kakko takes the leap and earns a 6m that’s a 4m raise.
So that’s 10 total.
Miller probably max’s at 6-7 so that’s only 3-4 million.

Bringing in perreault and Othmann in our top 9 will help as they’re elc’s.
Jones and Mancini are cheap as well.

It’s gonna be tight but we can afford it.
Adding Shesty in there makes it impossible for more than a 5 million dollar raise.

And that’s with a conservative cap rise. The math has said that 10m or so is possible.

 

[bl02]

When you have a team that has a 50 goal scorer on one line and a 100 plus point guy on another BUT are most excited about the new kid line that is a good thing.

 

[NYR Viper]

And here is the biggest problem.

if miller and kakko have big years they need to be paid too. Where is this money coming from?

We cant move vets bc they all have NMCs. And if trouba blocks a trade we are really screwed.

I still think they should wait to offseason to sign Shesty. Sign laff now. Then see what miller and kakko want.

Cap is going to be nasty next year for us.

They'll make it work. Smith will be replaced by Berard or Othmann. Lindgren will be gone, likely. Trouba will be gone, replaced by Mancini likely. If Kakko breaks out, then the Lindgren replacement will likely need to be a very cheap veteran on a short term deal.

Trouba --> Mancini = $7.1m in savings
Lindgren --> Vet cheap LD = $3.5m in savings
Smith --> Berard = $3m in savings

Cap goes up $4m
Total to spend = $17.6m

Shesty raise $5.625m --> $12.625m = $7m
Miller raise $3.872m --> $6m = $2.128m
Lafreniere raise $2.325m --> $8.325 = $6m
Thats a total of $15.128m delta leaving ~$2.472m more to spend

If Kakko breaks out, let's assume his next deal will be looking at $4m, that's only a $1.6m raise so that leaves $800k left to sprinkle around.

I thin Shesty's contract is a bit high and even if Kakko breaks out, I'm not sure he gets $4m but maybe.

Will it be tight? Yes, but Drury can make it work.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Laf is a 6m jump.
If Kakko takes the leap and earns a 6m that’s a 4m raise.
So that’s 10 total.
Miller probably max’s at 6-7 so that’s only 3-4 million.

Are you secretly working for Kakko's agent? You're really pushing these unrealistic salary scenarios for KK. Earlier in the week you talked about 8 x 5, now you're giving him 6M.

Realistically he'd have to score 55+ points to earn that 8 x 5 deal. I'd just be happy to see him crack 40 again.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Are you secretly working for Kakko's agent? You're really pushing these unrealistic salary scenarios for KK. Earlier in the week you talked about 8 x 5, now you're giving him 6M.

Realistically he'd have to score 55+ points to earn that 8 x 5 deal. I'd just be happy to see him crack 40 again.

I just happen to think his game is something that’s important to win and want to see the kid succeed, and it annoys me when I hear people shit talk him as if they want him to fail, or compare him to vk who couldn’t even crack an nhl roster.

 

[NYR Viper]

I just happen to think his game is something that’s important to win and want to see the kid succeed, and it annoys me when I hear people shit talk him as if they want him to fail, or compare him to vk who couldn’t even crack an nhl roster.

I'll keep screaming this from the rooftops:

If he can regain his form and get back to 40 points, he is a VERY VALUABLE piece for a competing team. He's a big body who plays solid 2-way hockey and can generate 5v5 points. At some point, a middle-6 power forward isn't a disappointment

 

[Boris Zubov]

I just happen to think his game is something that’s important to win and want to see the kid succeed, and it annoys me when I hear people shit talk him as if they want him to fail, or compare him to vk who couldn’t even crack an nhl roster.

I've been critical of him, but it's been mostly fair about his skating & his shot. I don't shit on him, nor root for him to fail, but there's a difference saying he sucks or I hate him than me saying the salary you're ready to hand over to him is out of line.