Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

[TGWL]

Interesting. I'm wondering if Panarin can repeat a 100+ points season with that setup.

Do you think he reaches 100 points if they swap Trocheck and Laf on the powerplay? Panarin has finished with over 35 points on the powerplay the last 3 seasons. Even if they take a step back, the difference between Laf and Trocheck on PP1 probably won't be the reason he does or does not reach 100 points.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Do you think he reaches 100 points if they swap Trocheck and Laf on the powerplay? Panarin has finished with over 35 points on the powerplay the last 3 seasons. Even if they take a step back, the difference between Laf and Trocheck on PP1 probably won't be the reason he does or does not reach 100 points.

I rather have Panarin dominate in the playoffs than get him regular season points.

 

[TominNC]

Replacing Trochek with Laf on PP1 makes no sense.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Robertson stinks so I don’t really care whether he gets a game or not

 

[IDvsEGO]

Was skating in a red jersey with the main group
He may still get a look

Red is non contact.
We have 8 days before a regular season game. He’s not playing in one.

 

[bhamill]

My initial comment was ”why does this team think they need 2 power play units” implying that they want to prioritize them both equally. This was because the tweet showed Fox and Panarin on different units and it would make no sense to do anything other than give them equal time with those two split up. I have no idea what you are even arguing with I never said they can’t try new stuff lol. I’ve been the biggest critic of adjusting PP1

Your implication was not clear. Also they obviously NEED at least a PP2 because PP1 cant play the whole 2, 4 or 5 mins of a powerplay...
What I have been saying since PP1 shit the bed again against the Panthers is that we need alternatives that are ready to be deployed in the playoffs, rather than developed on the spot. That hasn't changed... So then I have no idea what you are arguing with either... hahahaha.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Replacing Trochek with Laf on PP1 makes no sense.

How does it not make sense? Besides faceoffs, Trocheck doesn’t really have a role on the PP. He’s not a shooter, a distributor , playmaker, or net front guy.

You already have a right handed center in Zibanejad .

Laf at least offers a precious left handed shot, and is a more skilled player.


Imagine Panarin or Zib taking one timers when the PK actually has a shooting threat on the other side?

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Your implication was not clear. Also they obviously NEED at least a PP2 because PP1 cant play the whole 2, 4 or 5 mins of a powerplay...
What I have been saying since PP1 shit the bed again against the Panthers is that we need alternatives that are ready to be deployed in the playoffs, rather than developed on the spot. That hasn't changed... So then I have no idea what you are arguing with either... hahahaha.

Wait so you interpreted that 100% literally and thought I meant that they didn’t need a second unit whatsoever to mop up the remaining time

 

[effen]

The bumper guy is the 5th most important guy on the Rangers PP as constructed.

Not sure why you'd remove your faceoff God for a guy who is not a faceoff God.

 

[TGWL]

I rather have Panarin dominate in the playoffs than get him regular season points.

I'd rather Kakko score the game winning Stanley cup goal than getting scratched, but you know.. It doesn't always work out like that.

 

[SA16]

How does it not make sense? Besides faceoffs, Trocheck doesn’t really have a role on the PP. He’s not a shooter, a distributor , playmaker, or net front guy.

You already have a right handed center in Zibanejad .

Laf at least offers a precious left handed shot, and is a more skilled player.


Imagine Panarin or Zib taking one timers when the PK actually has a shooting threat on the other side?

11 goals, 13 assists, 64% on PP faceoffs and he's somehow not a shooter or anything.

His PP scoring has to do with his ability and the role considering Strome played the same role and has a career high of 5 PPG.

 

[fm]

mika is the guy (if any) who should get the bump for laf. w troch, the faceoffs are invaluable

 

[SA16]

If you absolutely had to jam Laf onto PP1 the obvious guy to remove is Kreider considering you can make a direct swap and change nothing to do with the structure of the unit.

However, this is of course a bad idea considering Kreider is among the best, if not the best, at playing that role on the PP

Change for the sake of change. This is also exceptionally bad timing to put Laf on PP1. We know the unit is good and he's in a contract year. Why do we want to artificially boost his numbers to increase the value of his long term deal? You can see the GMs/Agent know his numbers were held back by the lack of PP role but it doesn't really work that way when negotiating the deal. He would certianly get paid more if he scores 85 points this year compared to 60.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

11 goals, 13 assists, 64% on PP faceoffs and he's somehow not a shooter or anything.

His PP scoring has to do with his ability and the role considering Strome played the same role and has a career high of 5 PPG.

He still produced the least of the top unit. Makes me think he’s benefitting from them more than the other way around.

And I just hate having all righties on the unit. Kreider doesn’t count as a LHS because he doesn’t actually shoot.

Zib’s shot was neutered heavily last season because teams knew they could just shadow that side of the ice because that’s the only place a big shot is coming from.

 

[eco's bones]

All parts that go into our 1st unit power play are at least close to equal in importance and the current 5 that we go with all have different and necessary things they bring to it. Winning face-offs are important, net front presence, a bit shot from somewhere, high IQ playmaking that has the ability to make plays through seams, keeping plays alive at the point from another player with an innate ability to make seam passes. The right shots whipping one time passes around. The Rangers power play has been set up the way it has to break down opponents penalty kills and to exploit those break downs and I don't think you can just figure a new guy in the mix is going to change things for the better when it hampers the one time passing and the face-offs.

We do have some components to potentially make our 2nd unit better and Lafreniere would be probably the most main component--maybe Chytil, Smith, Jones, Kakko, Cuylle being in the mix for that.

 

[SA16]

He still produced the least of the top unit. Makes me think he’s benefitting from them more than the other way around.

And I just hate having all righties on the unit. Kreider doesn’t count as a LHS because he doesn’t actually shoot.

Zib’s shot was neutered heavily last season because teams knew they could just shadow that side of the ice because that’s the only place a big shot is coming from.

And how well did "neutering" Zib's shot work considering the strategy you mentioned of "shadowing that side of the ice" led to the Rangers 2nd highest PP% of all time and 11th highest PP% of any team in the last 20 years? Maybe it's better that teams covered that leaving more room open in other areas of the ice that they wouldn't have had otherwise?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

And how well did "neutering" Zib's shot work considering the strategy you mentioned of "shadowing that side of the ice" led to the Rangers 2nd highest PP% of all time and 11th highest PP% of any team in the last 20 years? Maybe it's better that teams covered that leaving more room open in other areas of the ice that they wouldn't have had otherwise?

got us knocked out of the playoffs 2 years in a row because it turns out our PP is pretty one dimensional and easy to adjust to in a long series

But sure it looks good against Anaheim on a random Tuesday in January

 

[Harbour Dog]

If you absolutely had to jam Laf onto PP1 the obvious guy to remove is Kreider considering you can make a direct swap and change nothing to do with the structure of the unit.

However, this is of course a bad idea considering Kreider is among the best, if not the best, at playing that role on the PP

Change for the sake of change. This is also exceptionally bad timing to put Laf on PP1. We know the unit is good and he's in a contract year. Why do we want to artificially boost his numbers to increase the value of his long term deal? You can see the GMs/Agent know his numbers were held back by the lack of PP role but it doesn't really work that way when negotiating the deal. He would certianly get paid more if he scores 85 points this year compared to 60.

Kreider is very possibly the best net front PP guy ever. Zibanejad is the guy that should be looked at as where Laf could potential bring an upgrade.

In the last two seasons combined, Zib has 50 ESP. Lafreniere had 49 last year alone. It really shouldn't be that much of a reach to think that he would also produce more on the PP. Maybe the setup changes enough, to the point that the powerplay is less efficient; that's very possible. But we've got a weapon in Lafreniere that we haven't even test fired yet to see if it works.

 

[SA16]

Kreider is very possibly the best net front PP guy ever. Zibanejad is the guy that should be looked at as where Laf could potential bring an upgrade.

In the last two seasons combined, Zib has 50 ESP. Lafreniere had 49 last year alone. It really shouldn't be that much of a reach to think that he would also produce more on the PP. Maybe the setup changes enough, to the point that the powerplay is less efficient; that's very possible. But we've got a weapon in Lafreniere that we haven't even test fired yet to see if it works.

Laf can play Kreider's role. Laf can't play Zibanejad's role. If you want him on PP1 you can easily put him there except the downside (similar to any change with Laf on PP1) is it will likely be less effective.

Why are you discussing ESP when this is about the PP? It's not a direct correlation. In the last 2 seasons Zibanejad has the 6th most PPG. By year, the last 5 years he's been 3rd, 7th, 10th, 3rd, 20th. I think it's a pretty big stretch to think Laf would outproduce that. Among the guys who play in the left circle on the PP he has the most PPG the last 5 years and 2nd most the last 3 years. That's guys like Ovechkin, Stamkos, Pastrnak. Would we be saying those guys should be taken off the PP for Laf?

 

[Harbour Dog]

Laf can play Kreider's role. Laf can't play Zibanejad's role. If you want him on PP1 you can easily put him there except the downside (similar to any change with Laf on PP1) is it will likely be less effective.

Replacing Zib with him would also necessitate some shuffling of pieces, or at least change the way they create chances, yeah. There'd be more cross ice shenanigans from both sides and much less of a one timer threat from that side. That's the main reason I lean toward it likely not being as effective as the current setup, but I need to see it before I say it's not the better option.

Replacing Kreider is a non-starter for me. Him, Fox, and Panarin are the engine.

 

[SA16]

got us knocked out of the playoffs 2 years in a row because it turns out our PP is pretty one dimensional and easy to adjust to in a long series

But sure it looks good against Anaheim on a random Tuesday in January

How is a PP that had four players score 10+ goals one dimensional? They were the only team in the league to have that.

 

[bhamill]

Wait so you interpreted that 100% literally and thought I meant that they didn’t need a second unit whatsoever to mop up the remaining time

How about 50%? Have you READ this board? People post shit without thinking ALL THE TIME. You know what clears this kind of thing up? Making your post clear enough that it REQUIRES no interpretation. Hahahahaha.

 

[McRanger92]

Putting Laf on the PP is tricky. He probably deserves to be on it but if you're making the decision with his next contract in mind, it's the wrong reasoning.

Now, if Mika's one timer is still as ineffective as it was last year, he needs to come off the PP1. He is essentially useless sitting on the perimeter hoping to score from such a predictable area. He'll get his ice time in other situations. If he or anyone starts griping about being pumped off the PP, it would just tell me the team is serious about personal stats and not winning.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

How is a PP that had four players score 10+ goals one dimensional? They were the only team in the league to have that.

Fine , 2 dimensions : one timer from Zib or shot from the point looking for Kreider tip. They hardly ever move and hardly ever use the bumper shot from the slot.

Yeah it’s fine in the regular season.


It’s even “fine” in the playoffs sometimes. But for a team that spec’s all it’s attribute points into special teams (and goaltending) wouldn’t you want to optimize it as much as you can?

We’ve seen this team Peter out 3 years in a row yet not only are we running it back with the same roster but the same lines too?

What do we expect the results to be when we do that?

 

[IDvsEGO]

Putting Laf on the PP is tricky. He probably deserves to be on it but if you're making the decision with his next contract in mind, it's the wrong reasoning.

Now, if Mika's one timer is still as ineffective as it was last year, he needs to come off the PP1. He is essentially useless sitting on the perimeter hoping to score from such a predictable area. He'll get his ice time in other situations. If he or anyone starts griping about being pumped off the PP, it would just tell me the team is serious about personal stats and not winning.

Mikas one timer wasn’t ineffective tho.
His pp points didn’t drop, his 5v5 points did.

This is a wild statement.