Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[Drew4u]

People are overrating Edstrom. He had 16 points in 40 ahl games last year. Never produced in EU aswell. Not very physical despite his size.

This coaching staff knows this and will probably play Rempe, Vesey, and Brodz ahead of him.

Cuylle is also perfectly fine on the third line.

 

[Fitzy]

People are overrating Edstrom. He had 16 points in 40 ahl games last year. Never produced in EU aswell. Not very physical despite his size.

This coaching staff knows this and will probably play Rempe, Vesey, and Brodz ahead of him.

Cuylle is also perfectly fine on the third line.

I mean Edstrom won't ever be here to provide offense.

It's like looking at PA Parenteau vs Dale Weise's AHL production. Two different roles. Edstrom won't ever be more than a 4th line player. He doesn't have 30 point NHL offense in him.

 

[JimmyG89]

I know I'm on an island here, but Cuylle is someone who's on the bubble for me and at the very least shouldn't be a lock on the 3rd line.

Think guys like Edstrom and Berard especially with their speed, even Othmann for the scoring upside, should be in direct competition with WIll for that spot. Lavy should be thinking about Cuylle as 4LW with Carrick/Brod and Rempe IMO.

Just don't see what Cuylle adds in a top 9 role right now. He really got away from the game he started last year with, straight lines, chip and chase past defensemen, hitting anybody he could. The energy hasn't been there since Nov/Dec IMO and the rest of his skillset is really vanilla. Think those other three might have more to contribute in a top 9 spot.

For now he has a step on everyone for that spot. The competition behind him are all inexperienced, but I think have more offensive upside. If Berard or Othmann can surpass him, he'll go back to the 4th line.

I would hope that the move for this season is, try out these options up to the deadline and reassess. Should have enough space to add a mid line winger. Hopefully one of these guys can take the steps forward in this time.

Laviolette trusts him enough to only do one scratch in the postseason as a rookie. Maybe the other options were no good, but he still did well in his limited role. I'd like to see him start on LW3 and see where it goes.

 

[cwede]

Canucks waived 2 AAAA D today

waiting to see what happens when NYR waive young not-yet-established guys, say, Scanlin and Roberston to assign to Pack, and they may get grabbed away, as was Emberson last year,
(i know many here have lost faith in Robertson, please, no need to rehash that here)

but conversely, i was glad NYR didn't over-add in July,
because comparable or better names may be posted for free
Cap concerns have led teams to drop decent players

Waivers are evolving into a more appreciated way to add players, [ ... and move out players, eh Mr Goodrow?]
to fill immediate needs, or gamble on potential,
its maybe more likely than ever to find a gem (Forsling, Tolvanen)
and/or often can flip for genuine asset (Emberson reference again)
(... possibly Leschyshyn's recent ice-time might be showcase)

the next 10 days may see some interesting names waived,
while no reason to expect NYR to be over-active,
a proven, or upside, guy might earn their interest.
...and the Lindgren situation of course

 

[JCProdigy]

Shestekin’s contract is going to be terrible.

“Aiming to be the highest paid player on franchise history” is such a turn off as a fan. Typical Rangers. Better not let in more 2 goals in a PO game again dude.

Little reason to take this team seriously with that on the books for the next 8 years.

Which is the turn off? The player asking or the Rangers giving? I can absolutely understand the latter. I laugh at the hypocrisy of people in regards to the former.

There's an opinion that Othmann is done here.

Whose opinion is that? Coming from inside Ranger management?

 

[kovazub94]

In an ideal world, I would like to re-sign Shesterkin, but not at any cost and I don't want to let hm walk out the door for nothing. That would be franchise malpractice. In a trade you can get a goalie back; will he be as good as Shesterkin; not likely, but with a better allocation of resources (including pieces you get back), the Cup window wouldn't be closed. Plus, in an Igor trade, Drury wouldn't be asking for some goalie scrub.

Look at goalies who have won the Cup recently, Adin Hill; Darcy Keumper, Jordan Binnington; Braden Holtby (where's he now?) etc.; none of them are in Shesterkin's class; they all had teams playing like gangbusters in front of them.

Once again wrong perspective. There’re 20+ goalies who are not in Shesterkin class who (in the league with razor thin margins) - not only didn’t help their teams to have any real shot at the cup but actually caused good teams to lose a reasonably good chance.

 

[kovazub94]

I won't tell you that Edstrom shouldn't be on the roster, but I can tell you the reasons why he might not be. You are free to agree or disagree with those reasons.

1) Edstrom may benefit more from playing big minutes in Hartford rather than minimal minutes in the NHL.
2) Edstrom is waiver exempt. We don't have to worry about losing him if he's sent down.
3) Role. Edstrom has never killed a penalty or taken a faceoff in the NHL. Maybe Edstrom can do those things, but Drury/Lavi may prefer a player who has actually done it.
4) Lindgren is hurt and probably won't be ready for the start of the season. This may result in us starting the season with 13 forwards and 8 dmen, rather than 14 and 7.

Maybe you don't think any of those things matter, but they matter to the people in charge.

Personally, I hope Edstrom makes the team. I think he has earned it to this point. But if he's not on the roster on day 1, it's likely for one or more of the reasons I listed.

Let me add one more thing for @noncents benefit: whether it’s Edstrom or Brodzinski - it’s not what’s going to decide the SC. The marginal difference between these two or whoever else is in the lineup IF it’s not Edstrom is minuscule.

 

[kovazub94]

Mackey on the first pair. This is what happens when you don’t have much young defensive depth. On other teams, one of their young dman would take that spot. Mackey and Harpur are awful. I’d try Mancini and Fox. Since Mancini can skate, he might be a good addition to Fox

Nope. That should tell you that Mackey with Fox is just a placeholder while Laviolette is trying to address other things.

I think Shesterkin is worth 11.75M x 8 years. I want to win a Cup and I think he’s capable of stealing 1-2 games a round in the playoffs. That’s immense.

Top tier goalie can take average teams on the extended run.

Average goalies can circumvent good teams chances altogether.

This is the only relevant math.

 

[kovazub94]

Mancini has played LD according to Lavy...early season is perfect time for meritocracy...including any forward who is better than current KK...its not like we can hurt his confidence any further...its rock bottom

Performance in the preseason games does not equate to meritocracy.

I'm intrigued a bit to see if the Rangers grab someone off of waivers as a #7. I haven't looked around but I wonder who will be sent down.

Also, someone brought up Giordano before, this would be a good opportunity for him...

The Ranger have as good 7th D as anyone out there.

 

[kovazub94]

It's rare you will see teams label a concussion with being out "at least 4-6 weeks", especially the day after. So, if I pull out my internet Dr. degree, I'd say it's more likely something else. A broken hand takes 1-2 months to heal. A shoulder injury can vary and his shoulders are held together by Elmer's glue, probably.

This. Such a specific timeline implies it’s not a concussion (where by definition the timeline is very much an unknown). I’m guessing a bone break or a fracture.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

You see a guy like Edstrom who has good balance and positioning, you gotta think about turning him into a PKer. With his reach he could be a real asset in a PK specialist 4th line role. Im exicited to see him and Rempe get more games this year I believe in both of them.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Once again wrong perspective. There’re also another 20+ goalies who are not in Shesterkin class who in the league with razor thin margins - not only didn’t help their teams to have any real shot at the cup but actually caused good teams to lose a good chance.

My point wasn't to say any average goalie can win a Stanley Cup; they are AVERAGE for a reason, or perhaps many reasons. A lot of it depends on the team in front of them. A goalie gets hot at the right time, stand on his head, the team feel confidence in him, they can go on a run.

Again, I state that my preference is to re-sign Shesterkin long term, hopefully at a reasonable AAV. He'll likely get more than most people on here (in terms of AAV) are comfortable with. I hope they don't make the same mistake with Shesterkin they made with Lundqvist; relied on him too much; he covered up a lot of their mistakes; they need to have a team around him to take the next steps. I don't think this core can get them there (Stanley Cup champions); I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Man, if we could get a Konopka type Center for the 4th line. A guy who can win FO, play Zone D, and has some passing ability...we'd have a nasty 4th line with Edstom and Rempe on the wings.

Everyone rides Brodeurs jock for the Devils SC wins, and the stacked D they had, but the Crash line was unsung heros that made match-ups difficult over a series.

I know a few guys here clown truculance and jam, but a 4th line that is a problem thins out teams that are deep in other areas. It's no coincidence that LA and BOS killed us in the SCF because they had excellent 4th lines. Jersey had similar results the years the Crash Line was at its best.

 

[tlk]

Whose opinion is that? Coming from inside Ranger management?

No, I didn't mean it to sound like that.

From a fan who understands the game and sees thru the (anti)hype.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

No, I didn't mean it to sound like that.

From a fan who understands the game and sees thru the (anti)hype.

Yeah, I thought it was odd some poster misread your comment.
Seemed clear to me that you were referring to someone or some people other than yourself.

 

[eco's bones]

I'm kind of expecting the Rangers to make more cuts before the next game. We're at 48 guys currently.

My guess would be something like this:

Rangers--Sheshterkin, Quick, Domingue, Garand.
Hartford--Ollas, Boyko.

Rangers--Fox, Miller, Trouba, Schneider, Jones, Ruhwedel, Lindgren-injured, Mancini, Harpur, Mackey.
Hartford--Fitzgerald, Robertson, Scanlin.
Hartford or released--Bowey.

Rangers--Panarin, Trocheck, Lafreniere, Zibanejad, Kreider, Smith, Chytil, Kakko, Cuylle, Carrick, Vesey, Rempe, Brodzinski, Edstrom, Othmann, Berard, Erne......Nash-inj.
Hartford--Belzile, Blidh, Chmelar, Groulx, Korczak, Leschyshyn, McConnell-Barker, Roobroeck, Sucese, Sykora.

I don't think we can send Nash down until he's cleared to play.

 

[Vitto79]

I mean Edstrom won't ever be here to provide offense.

It's like looking at PA Parenteau vs Dale Weise's AHL production. Two different roles. Edstrom won't ever be more than a 4th line player. He doesn't have 30 point NHL offense in him.

Could be a late bloomer but all I want is a big body 4th liner that can pk and pinch in with like 25 pts

Vesey and Brodz are waiver bubble nhl guys
I want then to be around for depth but I’d play Edstrom over them

 

[McRanger92]

Once again wrong perspective. There’re 20+ goalies who are not in Shesterkin class who (in the league with razor thin margins) - not only didn’t help their teams to have any real shot at the cup but actually caused good teams to lose a reasonably good chance.

For every Vegas, Colorado, St. Louis that won a Cup with a middling goalie, there's a Toronto, Carolina, Edmonton who has continuously disappointed in the playoffs with question marks in goal.

I dont love giving Igor 11-12 mil on principle because its going to make him an enemy of the fanbase. But he does deserve to get his money and he is the one guy on this team who is absolute nails in the playoffs. Im also of the opinion that when you're the New York Rangers (or any NY team for that matter) you don't really let homegrown future Hall of Famers walk over money. Figuring out the rest of the roster to field a competitive team isnt the impossible task its being made out to be.

 

[QJL]

Issue is not what he is worth. Someone who can will pay him top top $, whatev that # is.
Issue is not performance. Consistency is acceptably sufficient + and production is excellent.

Issue is reality of a hard cap, which is not going away.
That = opportunity cost of
restrictions on roster vs roster flexibility

we can gamble on Garand to not be as good as shesty, but good enuf

but we need cap room for KAM LaF Schneider etc etc etc raises
eventually moving Trouba + prob last minute bread will help, but Shesty is LONG TERM SCTRUCTURAL cap, big $$$$ single hit cannot be divided

The Cap will be 30M+ higher by the time Shesty’s contract ends. Pay. the. Man.

 

[NYR Viper]

Could be a late bloomer but all I want is a big body 4th liner that can pk and pinch in with like 25 pts

Vesey and Brodz are waiver bubble nhl guys
I want then to be around for depth but I’d play Edstrom over them

25 points from a 4th liner isn't a 4th liner

 

[Boris Zubov]

The Cap will be 30M+ higher by the time Shesty’s contract ends. Pay. the. Man.

The NHL cap? That's a mighty big assumption. It moves in glacial time.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't understand what some people want from a 4th liner.

If they can skate/forecheck, keep the puck in the opponents end and can play solid defense when needed/PK, you're a great 4th liner.

Edstrom has potential to be a great 4th liner. I do not get why some people require top9 offense from a 4th liner.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't understand what some people want from a 4th liner.

If they can skate/forecheck, keep the puck in the opponents end and can play solid defense when needed/PK, you're a great 4th liner.

Edstrom has potential to be a great 4th liner. I do not get why some people require top9 offense from a 4th liner.

Edstrom should be on the team. I think he will be. Brodzinski will probably get waived because he'll pass thru waivers. i think Jimmy would get claimed. I love Vesey but his usefulness is running out. he didnt do much besides kill penalties the second half of last year. He's a fine 13th forward but he can't play center. They shuld be doing faceoff work with Mr. Ed and Rempe.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The Cap will be 30M+ higher by the time Shesty’s contract ends. Pay. the. Man.

The problem isn’t the end of the contract. But the first and second years of it.
Laf needs a new deal.
Panarins deal expires the following year (maybe that’s one we let walk)
Ck may get a new deal.

We’re in our prime cup window as Laf gets better, and he’s going to be expensive.

 

[QJL]

The NHL cap? That's a mighty big assumption. It moves in glacial time.

It’s not an assumption. There are plenty of projections available from real sources. The cap rises are expected to grow under the new TV deal. Even if the cap maintains a steady 5% like we saw this past year, we’ll be at 130M in 8 years.

The problem isn’t the end of the contract. But the first and second years of it.
Laf needs a new deal.
Panarins deal expires the following year (maybe that’s one we let walk)
Ck may get a new deal.

We’re in our prime cup window as Laf gets better, and he’s going to be expensive.

There are many many ways to work through this for a better future.