Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[Savant]

We’ll see how things look with Smith on this line this year, but I don’t see Zibanejad magically becoming good at 5v5 offense again. And I don’t see Guentzel as being a massive upgrade from Smith

Guentzel is significantly better than Smith.

Call me crazy, but (IMO) nothing is going to help the BFFs until they decide to help themselves. The revolving door on the other wing has been a circus. Guentzel was not going to make them any better. I always felt the best solution for them is to separate them once and for all.

I think Guentzel proved in Carolina he can elevate his linemates, and again it’s easier to split them up if one of them has a player like Guentzel going with him.

 

[SA16]

There have been 88 forwards to play at least 300 5v5 minutes over the last 3 years in the playoffs.

Marner has the 6th best primary points/60.

He has the 6th best GF%.

His reputation as a bad playoff performer is nonsense. It's largely just a lack of secondary assists.

 

[Barnaby]

And where did that get us?

The ECF.

I don’t get how trading our 1 star who showed up makes the team better.

 

[Levitate]

Guentzel is significantly better than Smith.


I think Guentzel proved in Carolina he can elevate his linemates, and again it’s easier to split them up if one of them has a player like Guentzel going with him.

Guentzel gets hurt a lot, might be somethign to worry about

 

[TominNC]

Guentzel gets hurt a lot, might be somethign to worry about

Seem to recall we beat them

 

[Guyute]

There have been 88 forwards to play at least 300 5v5 minutes over the last 3 years in the playoffs.

Marner has the 6th best primary points/60.

He has the 6th best GF%.

His reputation as a bad playoff performer is nonsense. It's largely just a lack of secondary assists.

Agreed. I would be all over Marner the player.

Ultimately his contract expectations scare me away. We can’t afford him, and even if we could, signing him to a $12+ million AAV contract would make Shesty, Laf, and Miller demand big bucks too in the same way that the Tavares contract raised the bar for locking up Matthews and Marner that same summer.

 

[Savant]

Guentzel gets hurt a lot, might be somethign to worry about

Wasn’t when we could have used him. Tampa can worry about that now. But they love a LTIR slot

 

[eco's bones]

One of the complaints about Marner is he disappears in the playoffs. We already have a couple guys doing that kind of for us. It would cost probably as much if not more to get Brady Tkachuk and Brady has never been in playoffs before but my guess is he'd be like his brother Matthew. A complete pain in the ass for the other side. Actually he seems more a pain in the ass than Matthew. If there were a way to get him out of Ottawa that's who I'd aim for. I'd take Fox and Igor off the table work from there. Maybe I'd take Rempe off the table too

 

[bhamill]

By itself, probably not, but I also think this team needs to just get rid of the crutch of having the best goalie in the league if they're going to change anything.

There’s some logic there but would McDavid be considered a crutch that EDM would be better off getting rid of? I’m seriously wondering this, I’m not being “cute”. I don’t think it would be better for EDM. But in the case of a goalie it might force them to learn to play a better 200 foot game without him…

I mean I think in the regular season you want Igor. In the postseason you want the extra all star

I don’t know. It’s an interesting question for sure.

 

[Machinehead]

There’s some logic there but would McDavid be considered a crutch that EDM would be better off getting rid of? I’m seriously wondering this, I’m not being “cute”. I don’t think it would be better for EDM. But in the case of a goalie it might force them to learn to play a better 200 foot game without him…

Goalies mask bad play in a way that the other positions don't.

You can also literally play bad when your goalie is good, whereas when McDavid is on the ice, the Oilers are just good.

Igor, and Hank before him, made this team ok with being bad most of the game.

 

[haohmaru]

Doesn't Bob and the Panthers fly in the face of this "can't win with a goalie make XYZ% of the total team cap hit".

What was Bob's % of the cap when he signed his contract years ago.

I'd certainly say Igor > Bob as well in the playoffs.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

There have been 88 forwards to play at least 300 5v5 minutes over the last 3 years in the playoffs.

Marner has the 6th best primary points/60.

He has the 6th best GF%.

His reputation as a bad playoff performer is nonsense. It's largely just a lack of secondary assists.

Leafs are very similar to NYR. Amazing top forwards, 3-4 caveman defenseman at all times by design, everyone ignoring it and blaming the forwards

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Doesn't Bob and the Panthers fly in the face of this "can't win with a goalie make XYZ% of the total team cap hit".

What was Bob's % of the cap when he signed his contract years ago.

I'd certainly say Igor > Bob as well in the playoffs.

It does, and Bob is also significantly worse than Igor. There’s no reason NYR can’t win with Igor getting market value. As always it will be a matter of whether they want to use a team of NHLers

 

[Machinehead]

Doesn't Bob and the Panthers fly in the face of this "can't win with a goalie make XYZ% of the total team cap hit".

What was Bob's % of the cap when he signed his contract years ago.

I'd certainly say Igor > Bob as well in the playoffs.

But the team in front of him was always good.

I have very little confidence that the Rangers will fix the real issues they have as long as they have a guy that's going to consistently bail them out.

Going from generational goalie to generational goalie has created a culture of "aw shucks" defense within this organization.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The ECF.

I don’t get how trading our 1 star who showed up makes the team better.

It’s a long term decision.

Force these idiots to build a proper team for once instead of relying on a goalie to carry them

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Marner? So you want to trade one of the best playoff performers in the league for one of the worst? How do we know Garand ever becomes a starter? In theory if he’s a top 10 goalie maybe peanuts then great, but you could say that about any prospect.

He was an example of a player of similar salary and a team that wants goaltending. Maybe it's someone else, Brady Tkachuk and a young d maybe just spitballing because I have no idea who is moving on from their teams. i think you get the point even if you aren't admitting it, you can't pay your goalie that much because his salary makes us a lot weaker somewhere else on the ice. We had a ridiculously hard time generating any type of offense vs Florida and while Bob was good we didn't exactly make it hard for him. Now try and imagine how we get better with less cap space and Miller and Lafreniere coming due their deals.

 

[Savant]

Doesn't Bob and the Panthers fly in the face of this "can't win with a goalie make XYZ% of the total team cap hit".

What was Bob's % of the cap when he signed his contract years ago.

I'd certainly say Igor > Bob as well in the playoffs.

Only the teams in tax free income states can pull it off

 

[eco's bones]

Reilly Smith did not have a great year last year. It was his first in Pittsburgh and coming off winning the Cup for Vegas. There are reasons why players don't do well with new teams sometimes but last year might be age catching up with him or it could have been the short summer after playing very late for the Cup or it could be he wasn't a good fit with the Pens or it could even be a combination of factors. He has been a good playoff guy over the years in that he scores at a better rate in the postseason (0.75) than he does in the regular season (0.61). For most players it doesn't work that way.

We have a hole at RW and personally I didn't see anyone of Kakko, Wheeler or Roslovic filling it all that well last year. Kakko didn't step up and got injured again. Wheeler was past his sell by date and Roslovic was the best of them all IMO but he still left a lot to be desired.

The top 6 RW spot is for Smith and Kakko to fight over this year. Maybe Berard could push them.

 

[leetch99]

One of the complaints about Marner is he disappears in the playoffs. We already have a couple guys doing that kind of for us. It would cost probably as much if not more to get Brady Tkachuk and Brady has never been in playoffs before but my guess is he'd be like his brother Matthew. A complete pain in the ass for the other side. Actually he seems more a pain in the ass than Matthew. If there were a way to get him out of Ottawa that's who I'd aim for. I'd take Fox and Igor off the table work from there. Maybe I'd take Rempe off the table too

I cannot cheer hard enough for a Tkachuk trade . It would change the dynamic of this club in a heartbeat . The team pulse would be quickened BOOM.....just like that !!! One can dream.....

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The only way this team is better next year is if kakko, Chytil, Jones and one of Berard or Othmann have big years. I'm not betting on smith becoming a 70 point player with us or anything.

 

[SA16]

If Brady Tkachuk is like his brother Matthew in the playoffs then we shouldn't try to trade for him since it means three years of being labeled as a playoff choker before doing anything.

 

[TominNC]

Hilarious stuff --- at least all the deranged, self loathing, pessimistic fans are all here.

The Athletic has a feature on how each fan base and the public in general, have confidence in the team's front office. There are some crap teams with high grades. And there we are 17th. And that's only because the general public like our position much better than fans do. And some responses, and the authors basically saying - lighten up, you've been to 2 of 3 ECF. You have some good contracts and will be contending again.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Hilarious stuff --- at least all the deranged, self loathing, pessimistic fans are all here.

The Athletic has a feature on how each fan base and the public in general, have confidence in the team's front office. There are some crap teams with high grades. And there we are 17th. And that's only because the general public like our position much better than fans do. And some responses, and the authors basically saying - lighten up, you've been to 2 of 3 ECF. You have some good contracts and will be contending again.

If regular season and losing in the ECF gives you the warm and fuzzies, more power to you. The “Public” gave Drury a B for trading and an A- for roster construction…to me the take away is the public is smoking crack. And that it’s really hard for any one person to evaluate all 32 teams.

 

[IDvsEGO]

If regular season and losing in the ECF gives you the warm and fuzzies, more power to you. The “Public” gave Drury a B for trading and an A- for roster construction…to me the take away is the public is smoking crack. And that it’s really hard for any one person to evaluate all 32 teams.

Im sorry, being in the final 4 teams, and what should we be ranked lower than teams who didn’t make the playoffs? Or were bounced in the first round?

 

[noncents]

Im sorry, being in the final 4 teams, and what should we be ranked lower than teams who didn’t make the playoffs? Or were bounced in the first round?

listen i'm not arguing that we're a bad team, or that going deep in the playoffs is bad, or means we're bad, and i'm certainly not commenting on the athletic article.

but take the isles of a few years back. they had a recipe that led to postseason success relatively greater than might have been expected based on their talent level. there are multiple ways to skin the cat, and even more ways to get close without getting over the hill.

In the abstract - I'm not sure there isn't merit to the argument that a team that does more poorly in the regular season and playoffs but is built a certain way, with talent speed grit goaltending and coaching that has yet to precipitate or emulsify, is *closer* to winning a cup than a team that gets deep into the playoffs.