Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[mas0764]

Call me a Panarin stan but the minute he is gone people will start complaining about why we are fighting for a wild card spot. It doesn't make us better. Nor does trading Mika. People need t get out of their feels and realize there is 1 winner every year, and we are a great team, but not the best. Florida is the best. The only way they lose is if the greatest player of this century goes supernova. If people want to trade these guys, show your work.

On it's face, yes, trading either does not make you better.

But one of them is one of the top 5 players in the league, at least during the regular season, and even with all his crapping the bed he put up 4 points in 6 games against Florida. He put up 76 points NOT on the power play this season.

Mika put up two stinking assists against Florida.... was WAY worse in chances (see the graphic posted earlier).... and scored just 41 points when he wasn't on the power play this year.

When you are evaluating where you can add a player to get you over the hump in the playoffs, and you realize you need to move out salary in order to do that.... one player kinda stands out as the upgrade target more than the other.

 

[McRanger92]

On it's face, yes, trading either does not make you better.

But one of them is one of the top 5 players in the league, at least during the regular season, and even with all his crapping the bed he put up 4 points in 6 games against Florida. He put up 76 points NOT on the power play this season.

Mika put up two stinking assists against Florida.... was WAY worse in chances (see the graphic posted earlier).... and scored just 41 points when he wasn't on the power play this year.

When you are evaluating where you can add a player to get you over the hump in the playoffs, and you realize you need to move out salary in order to do that.... one player kinda stands out as the upgrade target more than the other.

Where are we trading Mika and who is replacing him? It's easy to say he's the problem. What's the solution? Mika also created like 4 shorthanded goals by himself this playoffs. Does that not count for anything? There's more to life than 5 on 5 production.

 

[NYR Viper]

They went to the sixth game of the conference final. That isn’t exactly losing. One of the two big changes in the defense group is giving Schneider top four minutes. They need one more piece - a LHD who can hit and gain the zone. Not easy to find. You can make a pretty good argument that Trouba has lost his top four role and that makes him a prime trade candidate. Lindgren can play anywhere in the top six and as long as he doesn’t get a NTC, there is no downside to resigning him. Given that it’s unlikely either Lindgren or Trouba would bring back a top pair defenseman in a trade, you’re talking about ripping the team apart to find a solution. That almost never works.

I would argue that swapping Lindgren out for a bigger, more physical LD would be just as instrumental in moving the team forward as it would be for the team to replace Trouba with someone who can effectively move the puck.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I would argue that swapping Lindgren out for a bigger, more physical LD would be just as instrumental in moving the team forward as it would be for the team to replace Trouba with someone who can effectively move the puck.

The problem with Lindgren isn’t that he’s small, or not physical.
It’s that he can’t move the puck…

 

[RangerBoy]

They went to the sixth game of the conference final. That isn’t exactly losing. One of the two big changes in the defense group is giving Schneider top four minutes. They need one more piece - a LHD who can hit and gain the zone. Not easy to find. You can make a pretty good argument that Trouba has lost his top four role and that makes him a prime trade candidate. Lindgren can play anywhere in the top six and as long as he doesn’t get a NTC, there is no downside to resigning him. Given that it’s unlikely either Lindgren or Trouba would bring back a top pair defenseman in a trade, you’re talking about ripping the team apart to find a solution. That almost never works.

They went to the sixth game of the conference final two years ago.

Edmonton has a big and long D. All of them are at least 6-2 and weigh 200 pounds or more. Some of them aren't great players but they know their jobs. Kulak. Ceci. I would rather one of them than Gustafsson. Bigger is better in the NHL.

Vegas had a big D last season.

I like Trouba. He has his faults. Trading him for the sake of trading him is dumb. His NTC drops to 12 teams in 25-26. Lindgren is a small D. Lindgren is always hurt. Fractured rib suffered in the Carolina series. It was something else two years ago. Ankle?

TB and the Blues had those big and long D when they won.

 

[McRanger92]

They went to the sixth game of the conference final two years ago.

Edmonton has a big and long D. All of them are at least 6-2 and weigh 200 pounds or more. Some of them aren't great players but they know their jobs.

Vegas had a big D last season.

I like Trouba. He has his faults. Trading him for the sake of trading him is dumb. His NTC drops to 12 teams in 25-26. Lindgren is a small D. Lindgren is always hurt. Fractured rib suffered in the Carolina series. It was something else two years ago. Ankle?

TB and the Blues had those big D when they won.

Edmonton is only there because of McDavid. They were ready to crucify Darnell Nurse who is way worse and more overpaid than Trouba.

Rangers definitely need some more size and ability on the left side specifically though

 

[NYR Viper]

The problem with Lindgren isn’t that he’s small, or not physical.
It’s that he can’t move the puck…

It's really all of those things. Yes, he needs to move the puck more effectively for sure, but his lack of size and reach is also a problem for a guy who leans towards being a 'physical' defenseman.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Where are we trading Mika and who is replacing him? It's easy to say he's the problem. What's the solution? Mika also created like 4 shorthanded goals by himself this playoffs. Does that not count for anything? There's more to life than 5 on 5 production.

Not with this team.

 

[mas0764]

Where are we trading Mika and who is replacing him? It's easy to say he's the problem. What's the solution? Mika also created like 4 shorthanded goals by himself this playoffs. Does that not count for anything? There's more to life than 5 on 5 production.

I wish I was in charge of the solution because I would have enacted it by now, never would have gotten this far down the road with the player.

But no, what's easy is this "what aboutism" game as an excuse to do nothing. The admin should feel pressure to try to find an upgrade. Since I cannot call all 31 other GMs, I'm not sitting here saying I have an answer in hand and I know who is on the block, nor am I saying Mika should be kicked to the curb as addition by subtraction (like I AM saying about Trouba).

But if they have designs on ever winning a Cup besides getting struck by dumb luck, a 1C upgrade should be on their shopping list. Start looking. I don't know who will come available. They need to be actively looking and be willing to pay or overpay for a young stud 1C who is better than Mika especially at 5v5.

And no, there really isn't a lot more than 5v5. Yet again here we are sitting home because a team that was better at 5v5 kicked our ass. The best 5v5 team beats the best special teams team usually.

I get that we don't want to throw the Conference Finals appearance baby out with the bathwater, but sometimes you have to take a step back to take a step forward as well.

 

[NYR Viper]

The answer is Dillon and Roy on defense to replace Trouba and Lindgren

What are people concerned about losing with Trouba going?

Trouba is a very physical defenseman, he had 191 hits and 183 blocks in 69 games this year. Those are impressive stats for sure. Dillon had 241 hits and 111 blocks in 77 games but about the same overall ice time.

The issue I am seeing is more construction of the defense.

On the left side:
Lindgren isn't an overtly physical guy and can't move the puck well.
Miller struggles moving the puck via passing but is excelent in transition.
Jones is a smaller defneseman but can move the puck.

On the right side:
Fox is all-world
Trouba is a physical defenseman who struggles at times springing the attack
Schneider is a physical defenseman who struggles at times springing the attack.

If they could replace Lindgren with a bigger physical LD and Trouba with someone who can be more of a 2-way threat then they are cooking with gas.

Miller-Fox
Dillon-Roy
Jones-Schneider

This makes sense. Hell, even a:

Dillon-Fox
Miller-Roy
Jones-Schneider

Makes a lot of sense

 

[McRanger92]

I wish I was in charge of the solution because I would have enacted it by now, never would have gotten this far down the road with the player.

But no, what's easy is this "what aboutism" game as an excuse to do nothing. The admin should feel pressure to try to find an upgrade. Since I cannot call all 31 other GMs, I'm not sitting here saying I have an answer in hand and I know who is on the block, nor am I saying Mika should be kicked to the curb as addition by subtraction (like I AM saying about Trouba).

But if they have designs on ever winning a Cup besides getting struck by dumb luck, a 1C upgrade should be on their shopping list. Start looking. I don't know who will come available. They need to be actively looking and be willing to pay or overpay for a young stud 1C who is better than Mika especially at 5v5.

And no, there really isn't a lot more than 5v5. Yet again here we are sitting home because a team that was better at 5v5 kicked our ass. The best 5v5 team beats the best special teams team usually.

I get that we don't want to throw the Conference Finals appearance baby out with the bathwater, but sometimes you have to take a step back to take a step forward as well.

Actually we should be loading up, not taking a step back. Tampa, Florida, Vegas, Colorado, Edmonton didnt retool because of playoff disappointment. They found ways to make their game more playoff suitable. All their core guys were playoff chokers until they woke up one morning and werent. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is exactly what you've wanted to do for years my guy. Call me an optimist fine, Im ok being in the minority if that's the case.

 

[mas0764]

Edmonton is only there because of McDavid. They were ready to crucify Darnell Nurse who is way worse and more overpaid than Trouba.

Rangers definitely need some more size and ability on the left side specifically though

Darnell Nurse is way better than Jacob Trouba.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I wish I was in charge of the solution because I would have enacted it by now, never would have gotten this far down the road with the player.

But no, what's easy is this "what aboutism" game as an excuse to do nothing. The admin should feel pressure to try to find an upgrade. Since I cannot call all 31 other GMs, I'm not sitting here saying I have an answer in hand and I know who is on the block, nor am I saying Mika should be kicked to the curb as addition by subtraction (like I AM saying about Trouba).

But if they have designs on ever winning a Cup besides getting struck by dumb luck, a 1C upgrade should be on their shopping list. Start looking. I don't know who will come available. They need to be actively looking and be willing to pay or overpay for a young stud 1C who is better than Mika especially at 5v5.

And no, there really isn't a lot more than 5v5. Yet again here we are sitting home because a team that was better at 5v5 kicked our ass. The best 5v5 team beats the best special teams team usually.

I get that we don't want to throw the Conference Finals appearance baby out with the bathwater, but sometimes you have to take a step back to take a step forward as well.

Since they are few and far between, I can't imagine a scenario where any team would part with "a young stud 1C" -- unless, of course, that team somehow managed to be in possession of 2 such rare beasts.

 

[McRanger92]

Since they are few and far between, I can't imagine a scenario where any team would part with "a young stud 1C" -- unless, of course, that team somehow managed to be in possession of 2 such rare beasts.

"Young stud C" has been the placeholder for awhile. Dont ask for specifics though lol.

The only guy reasonably available who comes even close to fitting that mold is Zegras and if you're replacing Mika with Zegras, you might as well pack it in because we aint winning shit.

 

[mas0764]

Actually we should be loading up, not taking a step back.... Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is exactly what you've wanted to do for years my guy.

I still would, but given that we won't, I can argue on that premise. How do we load up? We have no cap room. I'd love to add McDavid and make Mika the 3C but that's not financially possible.

Money has to go out to bring money in. Mika (and Trouba) is a prime target since it's his spot you'd be upgrading.

Tampa, Florida, Vegas, Colorado, Edmonton didnt retool because of playoff disappointment. They found ways to make their game more playoff suitable. All their core guys were playoff chokers until they woke up one morning and werent. Call me an optimist fine, Im ok being in the minority if that's the case.

Florida hasn't won yet, but, a Huberdeau++ for Tkachuk trade is probably what the Rangers should be attempting to replicate with Mika, if they don't want to "step back."

Yeah, Mika won't waive, blah, blah, blah. You have to deal with each hurdle as they come and at least try. Or again... you're just hoping lightning strikes. You're hoping someone upsets Florida and you get to play an easy team in the conference finals like Montreal again.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm open to hearing your criticisms about Panarin, but here's the thing....

You can feel at least kind of comforted that his $11.6m buys you production that stamps you a ticket to the playoffs by itself, almost.

Mika can't carry this team in the regular season or the post season, not anymore. Panarin at least can be relied upon to do the heavy lifting in the regular season.

You just need some of his cohorts to be able to deliver in the postseason. Laf and Trocheck did.

If Mika produced like Laf did, or, conversely, if you had a breakout Kakko producing on the Mika line... we might win that Florida series handily. Can you imagine 4 extra goals from Kakko in that series? We probably win in 6.

I mean something you need to weigh if you're considering moving him for sure.

If Mika or Kakko produced like Laf did then yeah, they probably win this series. You know who else they could have used 4 goals from in this series? The guy who scored f***ing 49 during the regular season. What other guys didn't do does not absolve Panarin (who makes more money than anyone on the team) from not doing anything either.

This is 3 runs in a row where he hasn't done enough. While this year's iteration wasnt the turd that 2022 was or the disasterpiece that was last year's NJD series, it also wasn't close to good enough.

 

[mas0764]

"Young stud C" has been the placeholder for awhile. Dont ask for specifics though lol.

The only guy reasonably available who comes even close to fitting that mold is Zegras and if you're replacing Mika with Zegras, you might as well pack it in because we aint winning shit.

If we want Zegras - and I'm not convinced we shouldn't - a Kakko for Zegras change of scenery swap makes more sense.

Since they are few and far between, I can't imagine a scenario where any team would part with "a young stud 1C" -- unless, of course, that team somehow managed to be in possession of 2 such rare beasts.

You say that but Buffalo just moved Eichel like 2 seasons ago.

It happens.

Who is that player right now? Give me Drury's rolodex and I'll tell you in a week.

 

[Levitate]

They went to the sixth game of the conference final. That isn’t exactly losing. One of the two big changes in the defense group is giving Schneider top four minutes. They need one more piece - a LHD who can hit and gain the zone. Not easy to find. You can make a pretty good argument that Trouba has lost his top four role and that makes him a prime trade candidate. Lindgren can play anywhere in the top six and as long as he doesn’t get a NTC, there is no downside to resigning him. Given that it’s unlikely either Lindgren or Trouba would bring back a top pair defenseman in a trade, you’re talking about ripping the team apart to find a solution. That almost never works.

I think we all saw that the Rangers breakouts were a huge problem though and too many parts of their D spent too much time chasing and trying nto throw the puck out.

The Rangers D isn't as bad as I think we're all making it but it is 100% a place for improvement and while it's great they made it to the ECF, if they want to win a cup then they need to improve.

 

[RangerBoy]

Edmonton is only there because of McDavid. They were ready to crucify Darnell Nurse who is way worse and more overpaid than Trouba.

Rangers definitely need some more size and ability on the left side specifically though

Edmonton's goalie can't stop a beach ball.

Ekholm has been a very good addition for them. He been a solid partner for Bouchard ever since he arrived in Edmonton at the 2023 trade deadline. Ekholm is a big guy. Bouchard has probably been Edmonton's best player in the playoffs. In every series. Bouchard. 27 points. Fox hasn't scored a playoff goal since 2022. He needs to step it up too. He isn't the biggest guy. Bouchard is 6-2 200.

The other guys on Edmonton just keep it simple. Flip the puck in the air and wrap it around the boards or glass. Pittsburgh win two Cups doing that.

 

[bernmeister]

Dressing Rempe was the problem. Coach didn't trust him and rightfully so.

It's not the reason we lost, but he shouldn't have played after the WSH series.

disagree, and him not playing was large contributing reason we lost after zib + bread not showing up

coach was wrong, I wuz right -- should promoted/developed Rempe, Edstrom + Robertson, failure to do so cost us greatly

 

[McRanger92]

I still would, but given that we won't, I can argue on that premise. How do we load up? We have no cap room. I'd love to add McDavid and make Mika the 3C but that's not financially possible.

Money has to go out to bring money in. Mika (and Trouba) is a prime target since it's his spot you'd be upgrading.




Florida hasn't won yet, but, a Huberdeau++ for Tkachuk trade is probably what the Rangers should be attempting to replicate with Mika, if they don't want to "step back."

Yeah, Mika won't waive, blah, blah, blah. You have to deal with each hurdle as they come and at least try. Or again... you're just hoping lightning strikes. You're hoping someone upsets Florida and you get to play an easy team in the conference finals like Montreal again.

We got beat by Florida's bottom 6. Our defense is out of whack. Im totally fine with trading Trouba for performance related reasons. Switching up our top 6 after this regular season and playoffs is a rash emotional decision. They need to add to it. If we come back next year with a top 6 W and top pair LD, we are right there with Florida, and they have a lot of mileage and they arent young. I'll worry about them on the very slim chance we run into them in the playoffs again, because now we have the game tape to study. Now is the time to have conviction. I gained far more confidence this year that this team CAN win the Cup than I lost.

Edmonton's goalie can't stop a beach ball.

Ekholm has been a very good addition for them. He been a solid partner for Bouchard ever since he arrived in Edmonton at the 2023 trade deadline. Ekholm is a big guy. Bouchard has probably been Edmonton's best player in the playoffs. In every series. Bouchard. 27 points. Fox hasn't scored a playoff goal since 2022. He needs to step it up too. He isn't the biggest guy. Bouchard is 6-2 200.

The other guys on Edmonton just keep it simple. Flip the puck in the air and wrap it around the boards or glass. Pittsburgh win two Cups doing that.

I wanted Ekholm when he was on the block a couple years ago but everyone was holding onto our crappy prospects like they were Gamestop stock.

 

[ThePeoplesPeople]

If we want Zegras - and I'm not convinced we shouldn't - a Kakko for Zegras change of scenery swap makes more sense.


You say that but Buffalo just moved Eichel like 2 seasons ago.

It happens.

Who is that player right now? Give me Drury's rolodex and I'll tell you in a week.

I'm not necessarily for or against Zegras, but he put up more points in his age 20 & 21 seasons than Kakko has in his 5 seasons. So we'd be adding quite a bit (which maybe you know, but just didn't mention). If Zegras goes straight up for someone in a change of scenery trade, it'd be for someone more accomplished than Kakko in my opinion, like Necas, Farabee, Batherson, etc..

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Edmonton is only there because of McDavid. They were ready to crucify Darnell Nurse who is way worse and more overpaid than Trouba.

Rangers definitely need some more size and ability on the left side specifically though

That and the other guy who is arguably the best post season performer of all time.

Draisaitl produces at like a 140 point per 82 game clip in the playoffs lol. It really helps when you have not one, but 2 guys who produce at a rate in the playoffs that would have you as a hart finalist (or winner.)

Their top 2 pairs get the puck out of the DZ with ease though. Kulak is underrated AF though, always been a fan since he was an under utilized player for the flames.

They also have a top pair with D who are good. Bouchard has his warts but they complimented him with an excellent defensensive D man who can move and doesn't nuke offense.

They aren't running Ryan Lindgren out there who doesn't excel at anything 5v5.

 

[mas0764]

We got beat by Florida's bottom 6?

All their goals were scored by Reinhart, Verhaege and Bennett.

Their top 6 definitely beat ours.

I agree the EASIEST way to try to patch holes and re-up is to try to move out Trouba and fix the D.

But Mika will still be an actual problem. It's a problem they'd be wise to TRY to fix. If they can't, they can't. They can definitely do something about defense. But 1C should be a problem they TRY to fix.

 

[McRanger92]

That and the other guy who is arguably the best post season performer of all time.

Draisaitl produces at like a 140 point per 82 game clip in the playoffs lol. It really helps when you have not one, but 2 guys who produce at a rate in the playoffs that would have you as a hart finalist (or winner.)

Their top 2 pairs get the puck out of the DZ with ease though. Kulak is underrated AF though, always been a fan since he was an under utilized player for the flames.

They also have a top pair with D who are good. Bouchard has his warts but they complimented him with an excellent defensensive D man who can move and doesn't nuke offense.

They aren't running Ryan Lindgren out there who doesn't excel at anything 5v5.

Yeah I mean the Rangers obviously need to rework the defense big time. Get Chychrun in here. I just think dwelling on Zibanejad and Panarin is a waste of breath. They arent going anywhere.

Unless Drury goes nuclear in his imminent press conference lol