Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[GoAwayPanarin]

you basically need to make a supporting cast so good that Mika and Panarin's houdini acts in the playoffs can be mitigated. it's going to be a real challenge and I doubt the Rangers will recognize it.

I don't even know that its that they don't recognize it, it's that they don't have the space to create a supporting cast like that (really a driving cast because lets face it, Zibanejad and especially Panarin are supporting cast players once the playoffs start) because those 2 (and Trouba) make too much f***ing money.

A lot of attention has been put on moving Trouba (and if they can, they should) but I feel like they need to move on from one of Zibanejad/Panarin too. I'd move Panarin for a roster player that we need+ and dedicate what ever savings they gave to Guentzel if it were up to me. Replacing 120 points in the regular season is an impossible endeavor but I know that guy will show up in the spring. Presidents trophy winner? Nah but they wouldn't have won it again if they ran it back with the same group. Better chance to do damage and win the whole thing? 10000%

 

[McRanger92]

That's fine but it's not backed up by any data, so it would be nice if you stop implying that people just don't like Trouba because he's overpaid.

People don't like him because he sucks.

I wasn't singling anyone out. You replied to me. If Trouba made 6 mil no one would bat an eye.

 

[Ruggs225]

I wasn't singling anyone out. You replied to me. If Trouba made 6 mil no one would bat an eye.

Not true. He was that bad in the playoffs. He could have been making league minimum and people would rightfully be upset with his his play.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I wasn't singling anyone out. You replied to me. If Trouba made 6 mil no one would bat an eye.

No at 6 mill it would have still been a problem and he'd still be getting trashed.

Unless he started to bleed every shift. That would get him leash.

 

[McRanger92]

Not true. He was that bad in the playoffs. He could have been making league minimum and people would rightfully be upset with his his play.

Im upset with his play. If he made less he'd play less and be more effective. My preference is to trade him. What I dont like is our fans siding with the haters and losers (of which there are many). Trouba can still be a part of a Cup winner if that's where the chips land this summer.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Im upset with his play. If he made less he'd play less and be more effective. My preference is to trade him. What I dont like is our fans siding with the haters and losers (of which there are many). Trouba can still be a part of a Cup winner if that's where the chips land this summer.

Give me a break with talking down to people like this...no one is "siding with haters and losers" they are evaluating players as they see fit. Trouba is completely ineffective at getting out of his own end and defending against the rush. His gap control is atrocious. These things have been issues to varying degrees for a long time but now they are glaringly obvious.

The bottom line is he is a net negative when his skates touch the ice. As long as he has the C and is a "respected veteran" any NHL coach is going to give him 20 min a night. The NYR simply cannot afford that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799064337166066089

When your 11.6 million dollar winger is getting doubled up by his line mates.

Really ugly series for Mika but we knew that already.

 

[McRanger92]

Give me a break with talking down to people like this...no one is "siding with haters and losers" they are evaluating players as they see fit. Trouba is completely ineffective at getting out of his own end and defending against the rush. His gap control is atrocious. These things have been issues to varying degrees for a long time but now they are glaringly obvious.

The bottom line is he is a net negative when his skates touch the ice. As long as he has the C and is a "respected veteran" any NHL coach is going to give him 20 min a night. The NYR simply cannot afford that.

I said what I said. The rangers captain being hypocritically labeled as a scumbag and the dirtiest player in the league by the media landscape doesn't sit right with me, and is quite frankly bullshit considering the what the league has let go over the years. Personally I wish our fanbase had a little bit more class and backbone and actually backed up our players, who have done nothing but win games for years now. I get the disappointment but like we are clearly the team thats been labeled an enemy of the state. 90% of the league would kill to be in the spot we are in but we usually just come off as ungrateful whiners.

 

[Kovalev27]

When Barkov swallows up Edmontons top line which he will people are going to have to reevaluate what they said about Mika in that series.

The bigger issue was that powerplay couldn’t get going which they needed it to. If he scores that goal in game 4 instead of hitting the cross bar it’s a totally different series. But the Zibanejad and Barkov lines played each other pretty evenly all series. Pretty much cancelled each other out.

We lost special teams battle which cannot happen with this team. Cannot.

 

[McRanger92]

When Barkov swallows up Edmontons top line which he will people are going to have to reevaluate what they said about Mika in that series.

The bigger issue was that powerplay couldn’t get going which they needed it to. If he scores that goal in game 4 instead of hitting the cross bar it’s a totally different series. But the Zibanejad and Barkov lines played each other pretty evenly all series. Pretty much cancelled each other out.

We lost special teams battle which cannot happen with this team. Cannot.

Doesnt fit the narrative. We need to trade Mika and replace him with magic beans!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

When Barkov swallows up Edmontons top line which he will people are going to have to reevaluate what they said about Mika in that series.

The bigger issue was that powerplay couldn’t get going which they needed it to. If he scores that goal in game 4 instead of hitting the cross bar it’s a totally different series. But the Zibanejad and Barkov lines played each other pretty evenly all series. Pretty much cancelled each other out.

We lost special teams battle which cannot happen with this team. Cannot.

If you look at raw production this is true.

If you look at chance generation, it is not. Barkov created more chances than any other Panther in this series and more than Mika, Kreider and Roslovic combined.

That line got killed. If Mika had just simply been shut down I think there would be less vitriol sent his way but he also had the key give away which led to the eventual PPGA in G4 (the turning point of this series IMO) and then his failed sell job on the eventual game winner in G5 (which was otherwise a decent game for him.) This series for him was in a lot of ways the same as the NJD series was for Panarin (and I'm humored that his harshest critics are some of Panarins more vocal supporters.)

ST's are definitely a part of it (5 or 6 to 2 or whatever it was is not a winning formula) but lets not get it twisted, this was not a close series 5v5 and a big reason is because he and his line mates got their asses handed to them.

 

[Synergy27]

Trouba is gonna have a bee in his bonnet next season. I’d give him another shot.

The last thing we need is a borderline player playing even dumber hockey because he “has a bee in his bonnet”. His ineffectiveness is can already largely be attributed to playing this way. He sucks. Move on.

 

[Atax]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799064337166066089

When your 11.6 million dollar winger is getting doubled up by his line mates.

Really ugly series for Mika but we knew that already.

Be careful, his stans may come after you.

 

[Synergy27]

you basically need to make a supporting cast so good that Mika and Panarin's houdini acts in the playoffs can be mitigated. it's going to be a real challenge and I doubt the Rangers will recognize it.

Have there been any rumblings about moving Panarin? Last season was supposedly a put up or shut up year for him. While he “put up” in spades again in the RS, he absolutely “shut up” in the playoffs again despite a couple of timely goals early on.

He was making me look dumb and second guess myself all season, but with a second consecutive very underwhelming playoff I am again thinking that moving on from Bread and opening up that cap space can go a long way to solving this team’s problems.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

you basically need to make a supporting cast so good that Mika and Panarin's houdini acts in the playoffs can be mitigated. it's going to be a real challenge and I doubt the Rangers will recognize it.

Can they really afford to go through a 4th playoff series with Panny and Mika not producing? They say three times is the charm -- let's hope after the third time, they see the error of their ways and make necessary changes.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Have there been any rumblings about moving Panarin? Last season was supposedly a put up or shut up year for him. While he “put up” in spades again in the RS, he absolutely “shut up” in the playoffs again despite a couple of timely goals early on.

He was making me look dumb and second guess myself all season, but with a second consecutive very underwhelming playoff I am again thinking that moving on from Bread and opening up that cap space can go a long way to solving this team’s problems.

Not with that contract and NMC....and his ghost-like playoff appearances certainly don't help.

 

[mas0764]

Im upset with his play. If he made less he'd play less and be more effective. My preference is to trade him. What I dont like is our fans siding with the haters and losers (of which there are many). Trouba can still be a part of a Cup winner if that's where the chips land this summer.

Tough to tell how effective he'd be if he played an entire season in a sheltered, third pair role, but he was so bad this year that such a scenario is the only possible way you could realistically imagine him being not a massive liability for the team.

That goes way beyond "being overpaid by $2m."

As other have said, the guy is a problem if he's free and he continues to play like he has. No one can force you to change your opinion.... but if your opinion is that he's playing like a $6m defender or even a $4m defender.... no, he's not.

Lindgren was just as bad, but, Lindgren was much better defensively in years past, Trouba has been a net negative defender basically since he got here.

 

[Ruggs225]

I said what I said. The rangers captain being hypocritically labeled as a scumbag and the dirtiest player in the league by the media landscape doesn't sit right with me, and is quite frankly bullshit considering the what the league has let go over the years. Personally I wish our fanbase had a little bit more class and backbone and actually backed up our players, who have done nothing but win games for years now. I get the disappointment but like we are clearly the team thats been labeled an enemy of the state. 90% of the league would kill to be in the spot we are in but we usually just come off as ungrateful whiners.

Yeah i dont like the personal attacks on him.

Those people are idiots.

Criticizing his play on ice is fair game though

 

[mas0764]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799064337166066089

When your 11.6 million dollar winger is getting doubled up by his line mates.

Really ugly series for Mika but we knew that already.

Also Chytil apparently played well despite not scoring.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Be careful, his stans may come after you.

Wasn't here for the endless list of excuses last year, really not here for it now.

Have there been any rumblings about moving Panarin? Last season was supposedly a put up or shut up year for him. While he “put up” in spades again in the RS, he absolutely “shut up” in the playoffs again despite a couple of timely goals early on.

He was making me look dumb and second guess myself all season, but with a second consecutive very underwhelming playoff I am again thinking that moving on from Bread and opening up that cap space can go a long way to solving this team’s problems.

Third. 2022 was a turd run for him too. This one was less of a turd and more of a let down.

Whats disheartening is that after a pretty underwhelming opening round, he was great in games 2 and 3 of the Carolina series. Looked like he found his gear and was very much the same guy we saw during the RS. It happening against a quality team gave me some hope that he'd be able to carry it forward. Feel foolish for even thinking so now.

I can't imagine it being any better for him either. Dream regular season so his head should have been in the right place, as healthy as anyone is going to be after an 82 game season, good line mates who improved on their RS production in the playoffs and thats what we get?

Unfortunately if they're going to move him, I think its next year when he has a single year left on his contract. If they find a taker this year, they need to get back at least 1 piece that they can plug in right away in a spot they need but they need to be careful here too. I'm not really interested in moving from for 2-3 "B" pieces that give you depth but don't really strengthen anything other than your bottom 6. He needs to return something that would immediately give you something that improves an area in your top 6 F or top 4 D.

 

[mas0764]

If you look at raw production this is true.

If you look at chance generation, it is not. Barkov created more chances than any other Panther in this series and more than Mika, Kreider and Roslovic combined.

That line got killed. If Mika had just simply been shut down I think there would be less vitriol sent his way but he also had the key give away which led to the eventual PPGA in G4 (the turning point of this series IMO) and then his failed sell job on the eventual game winner in G5 (which was otherwise a decent game for him.) This series for him was in a lot of ways the same as the NJD series was for Panarin (and I'm humored that his harshest critics are some of Panarins more vocal supporters.)

ST's are definitely a part of it (5 or 6 to 2 or whatever it was is not a winning formula) but lets not get it twisted, this was not a close series 5v5 and a big reason is because he and his line mates got their asses handed to them.

I'm open to hearing your criticisms about Panarin, but here's the thing....

You can feel at least kind of comforted that his $11.6m buys you production that stamps you a ticket to the playoffs by itself, almost.

Mika can't carry this team in the regular season or the post season, not anymore. Panarin at least can be relied upon to do the heavy lifting in the regular season.

You just need some of his cohorts to be able to deliver in the postseason. Laf and Trocheck did.

If Mika produced like Laf did, or, conversely, if you had a breakout Kakko producing on the Mika line... we might win that Florida series handily. Can you imagine 4 extra goals from Kakko in that series? We probably win in 6.

 

[Levitate]

As underwhelming as Panarin has been in the playoffs I think if you trade him and don't replace him with another elite player then this team isn't sniffing the ECF finals again much less the Cup finals

they're a much worse team without him if you can't replace at least 80% of his production

 

[McRanger92]

As underwhelming as Panarin has been in the playoffs I think if you trade him and don't replace him with another elite player then this team isn't sniffing the ECF finals again much less the Cup finals

they're a much worse team without him if you can't replace at least 80% of his production

Call me a Panarin stan but the minute he is gone people will start complaining about why we are fighting for a wild card spot. It doesn't make us better. Nor does trading Mika. People need t get out of their feels and realize there is 1 winner every year, and we are a great team, but not the best. Florida is the best. The only way they lose is if the greatest player of this century goes supernova. If people want to trade these guys, show your work. Because if the plan is "we need a culture change!" (we dont) at the the expense of icing the best team possible, that's foolish. We arent the Maple Leafs who are deers in headlights in big moments. The Rangers arent playing joke teams in these conference finals. Tampa hadnt lost a series in 4 years when we played them in 2022. And we know Florida's capabilities. The story of this group is not written yet.

 

[Levitate]

Call me a Panarin stan but the minute he is gone people will start complaining about why we are fighting for a wild card spot. It doesn't make us better. Nor does trading Mika. People need t get out of their feels and realize there is 1 winner every year, and we are a great team, but not the best. Florida is the best. The only way they lose is if the greatest player of this century goes supernova. If people want to trade these guys, show your work.

Yeah I mean the thing is you gotta replace those guys with someone else who is not only at least covering a large percentage of those missing points but is also "better" than them in the playoffs, and that's not an easy ask.

Panarin also does draw a lot of attention in the playoffs and a lot of effort goes into trying to shut him down, it leaves some extra space for others to operate.

 

[bobbop]

The Rangers will lose again returning the same D group.

They went to the sixth game of the conference final. That isn’t exactly losing. One of the two big changes in the defense group is giving Schneider top four minutes. They need one more piece - a LHD who can hit and gain the zone. Not easy to find. You can make a pretty good argument that Trouba has lost his top four role and that makes him a prime trade candidate. Lindgren can play anywhere in the top six and as long as he doesn’t get a NTC, there is no downside to resigning him. Given that it’s unlikely either Lindgren or Trouba would bring back a top pair defenseman in a trade, you’re talking about ripping the team apart to find a solution. That almost never works.