Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[Machinehead]

How many success stories do we have out of Hartford lately? Cuylle? Anyone else?

Edstrom and Rempe are very likely to be NHL players out of the 6th round.

Schneider played there depending on what you're willing to count, but Schneider effectively skipped the AHL.

Very, very good prospects tend to skip the AHL or have a cup of coffee there. Prospects below that tier succeed at a low rate.

Who are some of the AHL "success stories" around the league? There are very few.

It's not a developmental league and it's a very overrated part of development. Most of the guys in the AHL are there to play full-time in the AHL.

 

[NYR Viper]

Edstrom and Rempe are very likely to be NHL players out of the 6th round.

Schneider played there depending on what you're willing to count, but Schneider effectively skipped the AHL.

Very, very good prospects tend to skip the AHL or have a cup of coffee there. Prospects below that tier succeed at a low rate.

Who are some of the AHL "success stories" around the league? There are very few.

It's not a developmental league and it's a very overrated part of development. Most of the guys in the AHL are there to play full-time in the AHL.

Dallas seems to have it down though. Many of their young players play in the AHL before arrival it seems

 

[leetch99]

I'm sure he's very good but he's not going to make non-NHL players into NHL players.

Somebody converted Dan Girardi from being a not drafted junior into an NHL regular.....maybe he had a great coach at some point that reached him ? I can see a team like the Habs eyeing him up in the next couple of seasons for a job as an assistant at the NHL level since they have so many drafts/prospects .

 

[kovazub94]

He would almost surely have to give the bonuses back if he terminates the deal prior to the season. It's possible the 4 year deal in Russia is worth more/he doesn't want to play a bottom line role though.

Not sure if he needs to payback his bonus - it’s only dependent on him being under contract on a certain day. It also might be a something that Hurricanes won’t fight / already blessed because they’d just found $8m of cap space.

Obviously all above is if the rumor is true.

 

[Machinehead]

Dallas seems to have it down though. Many of their young players play in the AHL before arrival it seems

The only guy they have that spent multiple full seasons playing for the Texas Stars is Mavrik Bourque, and he's only 22 and tore that league a new ass.

Dallas is mostly an example of top prospects blowing right past that league.

 

[LOFIN]

Not sure if he needs to payback his bonus - it’s only dependent on him being under contract on a certain day. It also might be a something that Hurricanes won’t fight / already blessed because they’d just found $8m of cap space.

Obviously all above is if the rumor is true.

3.9M, Washington retained 50%

 

[leetch99]

The only guy they have that spent multiple full seasons playing for the Texas Stars is Mavrik Bourque, and he's only 22 and tore that league a new ass.

Dallas is mostly an example of top prospects blowing right past that league.

LOL...Steve Larmer .

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The only guy they have that spent multiple full seasons playing for the Texas Stars is Mavrik Bourque, and he's only 22 and tore that league a new ass.

Dallas is mostly an example of top prospects blowing right past that league.

Has a NYR prospect ever performed at that level in Hartford? Even JT Miller and Chytil couldn’t hit PPG.


We suck at drafting yes but Hartford also seems like a graveyard for talent

 

[GAGLine]

This is approaching Ryan Graves level of incompetence, it's obvious Hartford can't develop anyone, they turned a steady, big, good skating puck moving defenseman into what we're seeing here, much the same as they did with Graves. It's time to get him and probably Othmann out of there.

Yes, it's entirely the fault of the organization that Robertson hasn't developed. You nailed it.

Graves is literally the only player in recent memory that they gave up on too early. He turned into an okay player, but not one I'm going to cry over.

 

[Raspewtin]

This is approaching Ryan Graves level of incompetence, it's obvious Hartford can't develop anyone, they turned a steady, big, good skating puck moving defenseman into what we're seeing here, much the same as they did with Graves. It's time to get him and probably Othmann out of there.



No he didn't, he was playing somewhat similar to what Robertson was at the time of his call up. He got an opportunity and grabbed it, Hartford couldn't develop a picture in a photo lab. We're lucky Schneider got out of there and it's time to free Robertson and Othmann too.

I hate to tell you this but Robertson just sucks dude lol. It's okay to miss on players sometimes.

Othmann tangibly developed his game down there quite a bit. He's not a can't miss, out of the box top 6 prospect. He's a WIP. Your expectations are kinda ridiculous.

 

[effen]

If he is dumber then KAM.....then he must be really dumb.

I saw a handful of games and when he's beat he's totally cooked and can't recover. High center of gravity maybe?

That wouldn't be all that big of a problem but he gets beat a lot and thats kind of the long and short of it. So yeah you could say he's dumb in not knowing himself.

 

[Machinehead]

Has a NYR prospect ever performed at that level in Hartford? Even JT Miller and Chytil couldn’t hit PPG.


We suck at drafting yes but Hartford also seems like a graveyard for talent

JT Miller didn't break out until his third franchise, and his second franchise is widely touted for their development. That seems like a player issue that the player figured out.

Chytil was never really that caliber of prospect offensively. He's a physical specimen and you hoped his offense rounded out as much as possible. Bourque is literally the opposite - he's a small fry who was putting up 2 PPG in the Q when he was like 11.

 

[effen]

Dallas seems to have it down though. Many of their young players play in the AHL before arrival it seems

Just like Tampa did before until they didn't.

It's just random chance and some org is gonna run hot. The entire league is the same good hockey men in the same positions.

 

[Overcast]

Yes, it's entirely the fault of the organization that Robertson hasn't developed. You nailed it.

Graves is literally the only player in recent memory that they gave up on too early. He turned into an okay player, but not one I'm going to cry over.

JAM as well. Put up great AHL numbers, but never got a real shot until FLA. I guess you could also count the ~40 games he played for TBL, but he blew up with FLA. He bounced around leagues more than I remember.

 

[effen]

Somebody converted Dan Girardi from being a not drafted junior into an NHL regular.....

I'd suggest that was the New York Rangers organization developing him but apparently everyone is a complete buffoon at their very competitive jobs at the highest and 2nd highest levels that exist.

(not a dig at you, btw).

 

[Machinehead]

I think it's fair to criticize our drafting/development but I really don't think it's Hartford.

I think one of our issues is that we always draft for size and intangibles and hope the offense just appears. The Stars go on CHL.com and take the guy at the top of the page when they sort by points.

 

[effen]

I think it's fair to criticize our drafting/development but I really don't think it's Hartford.

I think one of our issues is that we always draft for size and intangibles and hope the offense just appears. The Stars go on CHL.com and take the guy at the top of the page when they sort by points.

It's just variance.

They also have a longstanding cohesive group of crusty to semi crusty vets and most of them play all 82 games for years now. Easy to drop some shrimp like Stankhoven into a place he will be protected.

If anything I want the secret sauce on how the team stays as healthy as it does.

 

[Machinehead]

It's just variance.

They also have a longstanding cohesive group of crusty to semi crusty vets and most of them play all 82 games for years now. Easy to drop some shrimp like Stankhoven into a place he will be protected.

If anything I want the secret sauce on how the team stays as healthy as it does.

Their only vet who brings significant size and physicality is Benn.

Pavelski played hard but the dude was a dwarf.

That's about it. They're very much a team built on skill.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I hate to tell you this but Robertson just sucks dude lol. It's okay to miss on players sometimes.

Othmann tangibly developed his game down there quite a bit. He's not a can't miss, out of the box top 6 prospect. He's a WIP. Your expectations are kinda ridiculous.

I don't get why there's such a hullabaloo about Robertson either. It's not like there's a bunch of dmen that we missed on after taking him, and the rest of that draft beyond Robertson is pretty terrible anyways. The Rangers are likely to get 3 full-time NHLers out of that class in Kakko, Jones, and Edstrom. Even with the misses on other guys, they still did well for themselves.

 

[NYR Viper]

The only guy they have that spent multiple full seasons playing for the Texas Stars is Mavrik Bourque, and he's only 22 and tore that league a new ass.

Dallas is mostly an example of top prospects blowing right past that league.

I mean, I'm not saying they need to play 150 games in the AHL but if we just look at the guys on their roster...

Logan Stankoven - 47 games in the AHL
Jason Robertson - 60 games in the AHL
Roope Hintz - 91 games in the AHL
Mavrik Bourque - 147 games in the AHL
Esa Lindell - 80 games in the AHL
Thomas Harley - 131 games in the AHL

Then there is someone like Jamie Oleksiak who played 171 games in the AHL.

To be clear, I'm not saying guys need to play 150+ games in the AHL, just that it appears some organization's do a much better job of developing their kids in the AHL then the Rangers of old. I actually think Drury has stressed this, hence the turnover we have seen down there and the improvements we have seen from the kids who come up for short stints of coffee.

I also think that as we move forward, we will see the league go back to kids playing 1-2 seasons in the AHL as the 'norm'.

 

[effen]

Their only vet who brings significant size and physicality is Benn.

Pavelski played hard but the dude was a dwarf.

That's about it. They're very much a team built on skill.

I'm not thinking of a skill/physicality dichotomy.

To a man they all have man strength and take and own space other than Duchense and Lundkvist. Whether they do that via hitting, intimidation, or mind control doesnt really matter.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean, I'm not saying they need to play 150 games in the AHL but if we just look at the guys on their roster...

Logan Stankoven - 47 games in the AHL
Jason Robertson - 60 games in the AHL
Roope Hintz - 91 games in the AHL
Mavrik Bourque - 147 games in the AHL
Esa Lindell - 80 games in the AHL
Thomas Harley - 131 games in the AHL

Then there is someone like Jamie Oleksiak who played 171 games in the AHL.

To be clear, I'm not saying guys need to play 150+ games in the AHL, just that it appears some organization's do a much better job of developing their kids in the AHL then the Rangers of old. I actually think Drury has stressed this, hence the turnover we have seen down there and the improvements we have seen from the kids who come up for short stints of coffee.

I also think that as we move forward, we will see the league go back to kids playing 1-2 seasons in the AHL as the 'norm'.

I get what you're saying, I just think it's easy to say "look what our AHL team did" when your draft picks are banger after banger.

Like, with Bourque, for example, the guy put up a million points at every level. If his lack of size didn't hamper him, it wasn't going to hamper him in any program. He just has it.

I think our AHL team has pretty much maximized what's available to them since Drury took over. I think some of the perceived limitations are due to 1) most guys fail and 2) inherent limitations in our draft strategy.

I'll give Drury credit, when he took Perreault, he finally took a guy that was scoring two billion points at the level he was at. And then he followed that up by taking EJ Emery who puts up numbers like he's trying super hard not to score, and everyone knows my thoughts on that selection.

 

[TGWL]

Yes, it's entirely the fault of the organization that Robertson hasn't developed. You nailed it.

Graves is literally the only player in recent memory that they gave up on too early. He turned into an okay player, but not one I'm going to cry over.

The loss of grave hurt because were so thin and had plugs. It doesn't nearly hurt now.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Just like Tampa did before until they didn't.

It's just random chance and some org is gonna run hot. The entire league is the same good hockey men in the same positions.

Nope some teams actually draft centers

 

[Profet]

Edstrom and Rempe are very likely to be NHL players out of the 6th round.

Schneider played there depending on what you're willing to count, but Schneider effectively skipped the AHL.

Very, very good prospects tend to skip the AHL or have a cup of coffee there. Prospects below that tier succeed at a low rate.

Who are some of the AHL "success stories" around the league? There are very few.

It's not a developmental league and it's a very overrated part of development. Most of the guys in the AHL are there to play full-time in the AHL.

Has a NYR prospect ever performed at that level in Hartford? Even JT Miller and Chytil couldn’t hit PPG.


We suck at drafting yes but Hartford also seems like a graveyard for talent

Anisimov is a success story.