Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[RangerBoy]

Edmonton needs to clear more money. Brett Kulak would be perfect for the Rangers. $2.75M cap hit. Two more years remaining on the contract. 3rd pair LD. Zac Jones is not the answer.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Hearing these guys are upset about Goodrow and Trouba is music to my ears. They want a pat on the head and to be told everything is OK because they went to the ECF and lost again? I mean come on. I just hope Laviolette and Drury have the sack to go further.

The personal stats, the regular season success, Prez Trophy. That stuff is all well and good and its fun during the regular season, but the Rangers have turned into the Yankees. Everyone knows they are a good team, will be in the playoffs yada yada. But no one believes this group can win because of how they crumble in the playoffs against mentally tougher teams. And all this in the room stuff is more of a sign of mental weakness. Kreider and Mika can't be apart? Ok then waive your no trade clauses and we can send you to some team where you can coast by playing paddy cake with each other. It's all so tiresome.

Agreed. I like that they’re upset. They should be upset. This is all happening bc they failed to finish the job. Don’t want it to happen? Finish it then

 

[RangerBoy]

Hearing these guys are upset about Goodrow and Trouba is music to my ears. They want a pat on the head and to be told everything is OK because they went to the ECF and lost again? I mean come on. I just hope Laviolette and Drury have the sack to go further.

The personal stats, the regular season success, Prez Trophy. That stuff is all well and good and its fun during the regular season, but the Rangers have turned into the Yankees. Everyone knows they are a good team, will be in the playoffs yada yada. But no one believes this group can win because of how they crumble in the playoffs against mentally tougher teams. And all this in the room stuff is more of a sign of mental weakness. Kreider and Mika can't be apart? Ok then waive your no trade clauses and we can send you to some team where you can coast by playing paddy cake with each other. It's all so tiresome.

I wish Vince did a live steam stream of the podcast. He contradicts himself so many times. The players are so unhappy but they don't want to be traded.

 

[LOFIN]

How was it not in the spirit of the contract? His contract said he could not be traded to certain teams that he chose. Period. He knows the difference between a NMC and a M-NTC. His agent knows and the team knows. This was perfectly within the team’s rights and screwed no one. He just didn’t like it and it’s a ding to his pride that NYR felt hey were better off without him, even with getting zero in return. Sure I wouldn’t like the feeling that moving me was addition by subtraction but he should look in the mirror, because he HAD to know his play wasn’t worth 3.6 mil a year.

When you have a M-NTC, you kinda assume you are in fact protected from being traded to those teams. The Rangers got around that by using waivers to send Goodrow to a team he didn't want to go to. Like I said, perfectly within the rules. But it's kinda shitty from the players POV.

I don't have an issue with it, the Rangers are a better team today with having Goodrows capspace to use. I also do understand why Goodrow and his friends in the Rangers locker room feel like Drury screwed him over.

 

[RangerBoy]

I don't blame the players for having an issue with it. What the Rangers did was within the rules of the CBA, but obviously not with the spirit of the contract. Players felt that Goodrow got screwed, which he did.

Not going to feel that sorry for Goodrow though. It's not like they are sending him to a gulag. He gets to play hockey in the Bay Area, making millions of dollars doing it. Drury did the right thing for the club, and for a club like New York Rangers, it really shouldn't have that big of a ramification coming out of it. If it was Columbus doing this stuff with Goodrow and Trouba, that might make them unattractive for free agents in the future. Should not be the case with NYR.

Goodrow should be mad at his agent for negotiating the contract without a NMC. Vince was saying that the players will remember the Goodrow move and they won't give the Rangers a break on their next contract. Which players have given the Rangers a break on their contracts?

I think Miller is represented by the same agent as Goodrow. Ian Pulver. Staple was saying Pulver will play hard ball with the Rangers over Miller. The current contract isn't a team friendly contract so when did Pulver do the Rangers a favor? The whole situation is tiresome. Pulver used to work for the NHLPA. He does not give anyone a break. Pulver should have insisted on NMC.

Miller needs to be better. He did not take the next step last season. He needs to play better if he wants that big contract.

 

[McRanger92]

Agreed. I like that they’re upset. They should be upset. This is all happening bc they failed to finish the job. Don’t want it to happen? Finish it then

Amen to that. Players are more upset about the consequences of failure than actual failure.

 

[McRanger92]

Goodrow should be mad at his agent for negotiating the contract without a NMC. Vince was saying that the players will remember the Goodrow move and they won't give the Rangers a break on their next contract. Which players have given the Rangers a break on their contracts?

I think Miller is represented by the same agent as Goodrow. Ian Pulver. Staple was saying Pulver will play hard ball with the Rangers over Miller. The current contract isn't a team friendly contract so when did Pulver do the Rangers a favor? The whole situation is tiresome. Pulver used to work for the NHLPA. He does not give anyone a break. Pulver should have insisted on NMC.

Is the fact that free agents wont want to sign here supposed to scare us? Thats the #1 reason why the Rangers have built their teams backwards the last 25 years. High paid country club members at the top pulling the strings while the homegrown players wait their turn. I would rather take a step back over the next 1-2 years than overcommit to the current Trouba/Panarin led core. I was always a believer and optimist but they cant keep hollowing out the base for guys who dont play their best hockey when it matters most.

 

[Fitzy]

Goodrow is making 33 percent more than he would have gotten with any other NHL franchise.

He knew the risks. He wanted to get paid above all else. If he wanted a full NMC he probably would have had to accept millions less but that’s wasn’t his priority. I don’t feel bad about it. Can’t have your cake and eat it too, life is about tradeoffs.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I don’t get any bluster from anyone, players included on the Goodrow deal.

The distinction between a NMC and a NTC exists for a reason.

 

[Raspewtin]

Edmonton needs to clear more money. Brett Kulak would be perfect for the Rangers. $2.75M cap hit. Two more years remaining on the contract. 3rd pair LD. Zac Jones is not the answer.

Ryan Lindgren isn't the answer

Jones will be good

 

[kovazub94]

RB always doom signals. Did it last year too.

If the Rangers extend Lindgren for term he’ll be right though. Can’t be extending a rapidly declining bottom pair defensemen at best just because he’s friends when your best defenseman and then allowing him to drag him down. It’s just stupid. Shipping him out of town should have been priority a-z.

Long-term in itself doesn’t really stop Drury from being able to move Lindgren in the near future. AAV is important even if the contract has (a reasonable) term. If it’s not excessive then some trade partners might even appreciate certainness.

 

[kovazub94]

I mean give them LESS PK, and whether or not you see it happening is not pertinent. I’m saying it would be wise. You can agree or disagree, but I’m not making a prediction here. Just saying we have options and it would be smart to not overburden older players during the regular season when we would like to be making a run deep into June…
And as far as powerplay, if they go from say 4 mins a game to 2mins a game along with less PK that’s a few minutes a game less wear and tear. PP isn’t as wearing as PK obviously but still it’s something and more important is hopefully developing a second functioning powerplay.

You’re missing my point. It’s not possible to meaningfully adjust minutes if they are still part of PK, PP1 group - to really make a difference Laviolette would need to take them completely out of PK rotation.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Lol Vince, the players will remember what happened to Goodrow and not give the Rangers a break on their next contracts?

A. Which player has given the Rangers a break?

B. Squeezing every last penny out of your deal and not living up to it is exactly what happened to Goodrow. So they're mad about what happened to him and as a result will engineer themselves into situations where the same outcome is a possibility? Makes sense.

 

[bernmeister]

Edmonton needs to clear more money. Brett Kulak would be perfect for the Rangers. $2.75M cap hit. Two more years remaining on the contract. 3rd pair LD. Zac Jones is not the answer.

We consistently agree, and even if not entirely on the process, usually so as to the end result.

Here I concur w/the premise: Oil have cap problem; can that be exploited.

But while I would not reject Kulak out of hand and consider cost, my eyes ae first set on other targets.

lavoie is a pivot w/size on or jjust exiting elc [think still on, no capfriendly] and he just did a 2 way I believe under 1m so helps w/their cap situation.

Holloway = mid 1st w/size + speed + mixed record, no longer elc, requires rfa

Broberg = similar to Holloway but better.

3 2nds + Sykora + BMB + Jones + a sweetener
for
Lavoie, Holloway, Broberg

somethin like dat
I'd go there as step 1

Goodrow should be mad at his agent for negotiating the contract without a NMC. Vince was saying that the players will remember the Goodrow move and they won't give the Rangers a break on their next contract. Which players have given the Rangers a break on their contracts?

I think Miller is represented by the same agent as Goodrow. Ian Pulver. Staple was saying Pulver will play hard ball with the Rangers over Miller. The current contract isn't a team friendly contract so when did Pulver do the Rangers a favor? The whole situation is tiresome. Pulver used to work for the NHLPA. He does not give anyone a break. Pulver should have insisted on NMC.

Miller needs to be better. He did not take the next step last season. He needs to play better if he wants that big contract.

Agree but other side of the coin is you wait til they confirm they can take that next step, the larger the size of that big contract.
Of course, usually it pays to have them prove it first

But in some cases, like KAM, you can see the ability is there; it is a just matter of putting it together.
I would lockup KAM 6.25 x 8 once we have space.
Same w/Schneeid

Ryan Lindgren isn't the answer

Jones will be good

I'm with RB on this.
Jones is not the answer.
He is an acceptable stopgap, but not the answer

 

[McRanger92]

Lol Vince, the players will remember what happened to Goodrow and not give the Rangers a break on their next contracts?

A. Which player has given the Rangers a break?

B. Squeezing every last penny out of your deal and not living up to it is exactly what happened to Goodrow. So they're mad about what happened to him and as a result will engineer themselves into situations where the same outcome is a possibility? Makes sense.

I enjoy that the tiktok beat writers Vince and Mollie have the tone of siding with the players on this. Say what you want about Larry but he came into this offseason saying that tough decisions will need to be made if they want to get better. The millenial(im calling out my generation here) journalists just want the team to sing kumbaya in the locker room and crack jokes with them. Looking at you Breadman.

 

[LORDE]

Even after the team blew up after the letter I found reason for optimism even though I knew it was going to take a while to get back into the playoffs and that there were going to be missteps and setbacks along the way to that goal. The Rangers got back to being a playoff team in pretty quick time. We have a load of young talented players and a lot of very good prospects. The team dynamic is completely changed for the better even from 2014 when we made it to the SC finals. Winning a Cup ain't easy....there aren't any guarantees but we have a very good team right now that has a shot but also there are areas we need to focus on getting better.....but we're not an old team so we have time.

Some of the doom and gloom here I don't know. It makes me laugh sometimes. If someone is getting down that much it tells me he/she should give themselves a break and do something else for a while and maybe come back when their head is in a better place......hockey isn't the only thing that matters. Either that or they should schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist.

I think there's some validity to being frustrated at this point. I remember the true DARK AGES very well.

No one is saying we SHOULD have A Cup by now. But tearing a team down & selling off parts for picks is the easy part.

Once the letter went out they immediately began making mistakes.

There are only so many mistakes you can make in a rebuild & I think it's a little obv that we've made more than enough & that's why we're coming up short.

The frustration stems from those mistakes & being out of options to rectify those mistakes. At least enough to put us over the top.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Hearing these reports that players are upset that their pals were let go because it wasn’t done in a totally proper fashion just makes me laugh. f***ing sick of it. How about you losers win something for a change. The entitlement is sickening.

And kulak would be a good acquisition, he should be replacing Lindgren on the pair with Fox. Not Jones on the 3rd pair.

 

[kovazub94]

That wasn't the point. The point was they're putting circles into square holes.

Honestly, if I'm Laviolette I reunite Smith with Trocheck.

Kreider - Zibanejad - Lafreniere
Panarin - Trocheck - Smith
Othmann/Berard - Chytil - Kakko
Cuylle - Carrick - Rempe/Edstrom

If this is our roster as it stands on opening night.

(Edit) and Kakko didn't work ANYWHERE last season.

Everyone’s forgetting Vesey.

 

[bhamill]

When you have a M-NTC, you kinda assume you are in fact protected from being traded to those teams. The Rangers got around that by using waivers to send Goodrow to a team he didn't want to go to. Like I said, perfectly within the rules. But it's kinda shitty from the players POV.

I don't have an issue with it, the Rangers are a better team today with having Goodrows capspace to use. I also do understand why Goodrow and his friends in the Rangers locker room feel like Drury screwed him over.

Yes. You can assume you won't be traded to those teams. And he was not. He was waived and the NYR had zero control over who would claim him. Or if ANY team would. They didn't SEND him anywhere. SJS simply had first dibs because they finished dead last. NYR got zero considerations in return, why would they care exactly who claimed him? It is within their rights and also within the "spirit" of the contract. That's why players will actually take less money to get a NMC. He didn't do that. Again I get him having his pride hurt, but he has no one to blame for him becoming addition by subtraction but himself. NYR played him up and down the lineup in many roles. He had every opportunity. This is not a "it's their right, but it isn't right" situation, at least IMO.

 

[bhamill]

The definition of insanity is breaking up a combination that has had a GF% well over 50% for six consecutive years because of not liking how they look.

Mika had 12 goals at EV last season. I don't care if their GF% was well over 75%, that isn't enough scoring. He isn't paid to be a 3rd line checking center at 5v5.
Whether breaking up the duo would bring better results or not is unknown, because despite the 5v5 scoring being insufficient, no one has given it a try.

Goodrow should be mad at his agent for negotiating the contract without a NMC. Vince was saying that the players will remember the Goodrow move and they won't give the Rangers a break on their next contract. Which players have given the Rangers a break on their contracts?

I think Miller is represented by the same agent as Goodrow. Ian Pulver. Staple was saying Pulver will play hard ball with the Rangers over Miller. The current contract isn't a team friendly contract so when did Pulver do the Rangers a favor? The whole situation is tiresome. Pulver used to work for the NHLPA. He does not give anyone a break. Pulver should have insisted on NMC.

Miller needs to be better. He did not take the next step last season. He needs to play better if he wants that big contract.

They would have had to take less money for a NMC. That is why the contract is what it is.

 

[McRanger92]

Mika had 12 goals at EV last season. I don't care if their GF% was well over 75%, that isn't enough scoring. He isn't paid to be a 3rd line checking center at 5v5.
Whether breaking up the duo would bring better results or not is unknown, because despite the 5v5 scoring being insufficient, no one has given it a try.

Actual>Expected. The analytics revolution over the last 10-15 years has convinced people that what "should" have happened is more relevant than what did.

 

[TGWL]

Holloway = mid 1st w/size + speed + mixed record, no longer elc, requires rfa

Broberg = similar to Holloway but better.

3 2nds + Sykora + BMB + Jones + a sweetener
for
Lavoie, Holloway, Broberg

Rangers currently don't have any 2nd round picks until 2028.
Also, I don't see Oilers doing that. Broberg finally looked good and they will most likely see what he can do before making the decision to get rid of him. It's a bunch of maybes for 2 players in their lineup and no real cap saving incentive. You can argue that those players could be up for an offersheet, should some team want to go in that direction, but the contract is not likely going to be something that breaks Edmonton.

 

[bhamill]

You’re missing my point. It’s not possible to meaningfully adjust minutes if they are still part of PK, PP1 group - to really make a difference Laviolette would need to take them completely out of PK rotation.

I think YOU are missing the point, they are older, we have options, lowering their minutes might help in June. And they do not have to be taken totally off PK to get less minutes. Going from 20mins a game to 17, because of less PK, is a 15% reduction in TOI. 15% is OBJECTIVELY significant, that is not opinion. This isn't complicated. It can be situational. If we need a goal in a game, sure let them PK if the odds of a shortie go from 1% to 5%, though I doubt the odds are even that high. Otherwise we have plenty of players who are capable.
Again I'm not predicting, I'm proposing. You don't think it will happen? Fine.

Actual>Expected. The analytics revolution over the last 10-15 years has convinced people that what "should" have happened is more relevant than what did.

Nail on the head there, buddy.

 

[eco's bones]

Maybe moving on from Goodrow and trying to move Trouba has made some unhappy but maybe also it's a kick in the ass that they need. At this point I don't think Trouba's going anywhere until the deadline at the earliest because I'm not sure there's anyone to replace him with. I'm interested in seeing how Mancini does but I suspect he'll start with Hartford. As far as Jones he moves the puck well but whether he's good enough to be an everyday dependable defensive player is a question. I kind of view his progression similar to Nils Lundkvist in Dallas. When push comes to shove there Lundkvist gets the least minutes or the scratch.

Mika for me did not have a very good year. He's a good penalty killer....he's still an effective power play guy but his 5v5 play has not been good. FWIW I think Kreider has kept up his play a lot better than Mika has. Been more dangerous....more effective and it shows in even strength production. Kreider 19-22-41 vs. Zibanejad 12-23-35. You'd almost think Kreider was the center instead of the other way around. More bang for the cap hit buck too. Trocheck was easily our best center last year and I don't look at Mika's line as our first line.....to me that's Vinnie's line.

All that said Kakko had more injuries and wasn't able to step into the top 6 like Lafreniere and to me both Wheeler and Roslovic left a lot to be desired. I'm hopeful that if Kakko can't move up again that Reilly Smith will be able. For me Wheeler is pretty much washed up and Roslovic is just not a top 6 quality winger on a good team.

To go back to Mancini for a moment----skates and defends very well, big body. We need more defenders like that. 4th line with maybe Edstrom, Rempe and Vesey for vet savvy. Two young and hungry players with size who have no problem banging bodies and can move. It's better to get other teams reacting to what you're doing than the other way around.

 

[haohmaru]

Everyone’s forgetting Vesey.

Good point

Actual>Expected. The analytics revolution over the last 10-15 years has convinced people that what "should" have happened is more relevant than what did.

Love this.