OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: No 3peat for the Swifts

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Stafford+Kupp package has some appeal, even if both guys are past their prime.

First thing I thought.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Trading for Stafford and Kupp would be insanely stupid.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

IMO if you're not willing to trade a 1st for Stafford, you might as well just blow up this team and trade Watt and Heyward.

I agree with you, which is why I'd trade Watt, Minkah, etc. Holding onto aging defensive pieces while you're staring down the barrel of Jameis Winston as your QB1 is pure idiocy.

But the Steelers will do neither - they'll poke through the trash heap at QB and they'll keep their guys on defense. 9-8 baby!

 

[T1K]

Trading for Stafford and Kupp would be insanely stupid.

elaborate

 

[xlm34]

IMO if you're not willing to trade a 1st for Stafford, you might as well just blow up this team and trade Watt and Heyward.

I’d be fine with that although I don’t think you’d get all that much for Heyward. I don’t really believe in tanking in the NFL but I’m not opposed to selling off some veterans. Even with Stafford, I just don’t see this team competing the way the AFC is right now.

I still don’t think he gets traded anyway. It just doesn’t make all that much sense for the Rams. Feels like last year with Aiyuk where the niners just let other teams negotiate a contracts for them.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

IMO if you're not willing to trade a 1st for Stafford, you might as well just blow up this team and trade Watt and Heyward.

It’s not just about the 1st. It is about the 3 year 160 100 million dollar extension that goes with it.

 

[Shaftception]

I agree with you, which is why I'd trade Watt, Minkah, etc. Holding onto aging defensive pieces while you're staring down the barrel of Jameis Winston as your QB1 is pure idiocy.

But the Steelers will do neither - they'll poke through the trash heap at QB and they'll keep their guys on defense. 9-8 baby!

Is the discussion determinate on what a smart team would do, and under that premise what expectations of theoretical moves are, or what the Steelers are actually likely to do? If the former, do something along the lines of what you said. If the later, what level of performance would be realistically required of a Stafford/Kupp, Rodgers/Adams, Fields, Deebo Samuels, etc. that's going to bridge the gap between this team and the real contenders?

In Stafford's case for this discussion, what's the reasoning for expecting him to perform at the level he has on the Rams in McVay's offense, a modern offense with a proven track record of success, compared to what he'd likely have to work with here in Smith's (Tomlin's)? Not to mention, regardless of who the QB is, are they going to somehow prevent the opponent from putting up another 30+ points on Tomlin's defense for the umpteenth time?

Come to think of it, just how many outside roster moves since Ben declined below the point of being able to carry an offense himself, have come here and performed better than expectations? Elliot this past season is one, Minkah his first few seasons. Can't think of one on the offensive side of the ball. I'm probably missing some but I doubt it's more than a handful.

Point being, even if this team was actually just a few roster upgrades from legit contention (they aren't), with what track record of offseason acquisition success are we basing any confidence in that coming true with what they need going into this season?

So, going back to the original question of what is the discussion based on, since I'm comfortable expecting the Steelers to disregard what imo would make the most sense for the future, that being selling off the aging defensive stars that have legit value still and preparing for the 26 draft in Pittsburgh with a hopefully better selection of QB talent compared to this year's draft, I'm sure Rooney and all will find a way to convince themselves they're just a Stafford or whoever away from a playoff win, they'll make any and all boneheaded decisions designed to "try" to compete this season, they'll convince half the city they have like clockwork by training camp, and we'll be right back here next February talking about the same damn shit, but hopefully for them they'll have another non-losing season under their belt, so it will still be seen as a success in their book.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[JTG]

If they sign Jameis and lose Fields, then just blow the thing up already. Go into 26 and 27 with a million picks. Make the draft in Pittsburgh must watch for every single Steeler fan.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If they sign Jameis and lose Fields, then just blow the thing up already. Go into 26 and 27 with a million picks. Make the draft in Pittsburgh must watch for every single Steeler fan.

I don’t really know if it’s losing Fields . I don’t think he is anyone day 1 no question starting quarterback. He definitely a top end backup

 

[JTG]

I'm not watching Jameis Winston. I will not subject myself to that.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'm not watching Jameis Winston. I will not subject myself to that.

Fields lead the nfl in fumbles in Chicago and had 1 every start here. He had 5 passing tds as a starter. He has never played an entire 17 game season. They are both turnover prone guys. Winston knows who he is. He is comfortable with supporting the rookie starting qb in 26.
Fields has a walk away number anything more than 2/30 he is not a good value

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

I'm not watching Jameis Winston. I will not subject myself to that.

The thought of Winston, Rodgers, cousins, Jones, Wilson, Rudolph, etc all make me nauseous. Darnold is going to cost a bunch and I think I heard Minnesota was talking about keeping him. Fields is the best of the rest which is why he's going to test FA and get way more than anyone initially expected.

There are no good options, maybe it's Dart in round 2 plus a veteran.

 

[JTG]

The thought of Winston, Rodgers, cousins, Jones, Wilson, Rudolph, etc all make me nauseous. Darnold is going to cost a bunch and I think I heard Minnesota was talking about keeping him. Fields is the best of the rest which is why he's going to test FA and get way more than anyone initially expected.

There are no good options, maybe it's Dart in round 2 plus a veteran.

I would rather just roll with Fields.

Fields lead the nfl in fumbles in Chicago and had 1 every start here. He had 5 passing tds as a starter. He has never played an entire 17 game season. They are both turnover prone guys. Winston knows who he is. He is comfortable with supporting the rookie starting qb in 26.
Fields has a walk away number anything more than 2/30 he is not a good value

I don't care. I want to see Fields play.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Is the discussion determinate on what a smart team would do, and under that premise what expectations of theoretical moves are, or what the Steelers are actually likely to do? If the former, do something along the lines of what you said. If the later, what level of performance would be realistically required of a Stafford/Kupp, Rodgers/Adams, Fields, Deebo Samuels, etc. that's going to bridge the gap between this team and the real contenders?

In Stafford's case for this discussion, what's the reasoning for expecting him to perform at the level he has on the Rams in McVay's offense, a modern offense with a proven track record of success, compared to what he'd likely have to work with here in Smith's (Tomlin's)? Not to mention, regardless of who the QB is, are they going to somehow prevent the opponent from putting up another 30+ points on Tomlin's defense for the umpteenth time?

Come to think of it, just how many outside roster moves since Ben declined below the point of being able to carry an offense himself, have come here and performed better than expectations? Elliot this past season is one, Minkah his first few seasons. Can't think of one on the offensive side of the ball. I'm probably missing some but I doubt it's more than a handful.

Point being, even if this team was actually just a few roster upgrades from legit contention (they aren't), with what track record of offseason acquisition success are we basing any confidence in that coming true with what they need going into this season?

So, going back to the original question of what is the discussion based on, since I'm comfortable expecting the Steelers to disregard what imo would make the most sense for the future, that being selling off the aging defensive stars that have legit value still and preparing for the 26 draft in Pittsburgh with a hopefully better selection of QB talent compared to this year's draft, I'm sure Rooney and all will find a way to convince themselves they're just a Stafford or whoever away from a playoff win, they'll make any and all boneheaded decisions designed to "try" to compete this season, they'll convince half the city they have like clockwork by training camp, and we'll be right back here next February talking about the same damn shit, but hopefully for them they'll have another non-losing season under their belt, so it will still be seen as a success in their book.

Rinse and repeat.

Yep.

This isn’t an org that’s looking to rebuild and follow the “Philly Way”, which is funny ass shit.

The “Philly Way” was actually the “Steelers Way” before Tomlin f***ed things up.

Philly borrowed from the Steelers blueprint to success, but so many fans have forgotten what this org used to represent before Tomlin.

All this org is trying to do now is protect Tomlin’s streak and they are desperate for a playoff win - because it’s become embarrassing as hell for them.

They will just put things together with duct tape and Elmer’s glue (when they aren’t sniffing it of course).

As long as Tomlin is around, this once proud org that other NFL teams tried to replicate, will remain in this sad, pathetic state.

The thought of Winston, Rodgers, cousins, Jones, Wilson, Rudolph, etc all make me nauseous. Darnold is going to cost a bunch and I think I heard Minnesota was talking about keeping him. Fields is the best of the rest which is why he's going to test FA and get way more than anyone initially expected.

There are no good options, maybe it's Dart in round 2 plus a veteran.

The fact Steeler fans are pining for Fields is a massive red flag for the sad nature this org finds itself in.

It’s truly brutal to witness.

I get trying to pin hopes on Fields, but man this org has sunk to depths that are depressing as hell.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yep.

This isn’t an org that’s looking to rebuild and follow the “Philly Way”, which is funny ass shit.

The “Philly Way” was actually the “Steelers Way” before Tomlin f***ed things up.

Philly borrowed from the Steelers blueprint to success, but so many fans have forgotten what this org used to represent before Tomlin.

All this org is trying to do now is protect Tomlin’s streak and they are desperate for a playoff win - because it’s become embarrassing as hell for them.

They will just put things together with duct tape and Elmer’s glue (when they aren’t sniffing it of course).

As long as Tomlin is around, this once proud org that other NFL teams tried to replicate, will remain in this sad, pathetic state.



The fact Steeler fans are pining for Fields is a massive red flag for the sad nature this org finds itself in.

It’s truly brutal to witness.

I get trying to pin hopes on Fields, but man this org has sunk to depths that are depressing as hell.

It’s the state of the nfl not just the organization. We are back to the days of Slash Maddox NOD. The league is filled with failed 1st qb getting multiple shots. Carr is getting dumped by the saints and they just extended him. The Jets gave the entire organization to Rodgers. This draft class is better than the KP class but guys like Dart and Stough are getting pushed to late 1st because the lack of Qbs.

The Eagles and Bills treat the NB position as an starter on defense the Steelers don’t. They have the d line depth to play nickel all the time we don’t. The Steelers are 2 years behind the eagles in their retooling

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It’s the state of the nfl not just the organization. We are back to the days of Slash Maddox NOD. The league is filled with failed 1st qb getting multiple shots. Carr is getting dumped by the saints and they just extended him. The Jets gave the entire organization to Rodgers. This draft class is better than the KP class but guys like Dart and Stough are getting pushed to late 1st because the lack of Qbs.

The Eagles and Bills treat the NB position as an starter on defense the Steelers don’t. They have the d line depth to play nickel all the time we don’t. The Steelers are 2 years behind the eagles in their retooling

The Steelers are many years behind the Eagles, be realistic.

The first step is to rid themselves of the Tomlin cancer and then let the GM build the team and the coach do the coaching.

Tomlin is a cautionary tale of what happens when a coach gets absolute power.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The Steelers are many years behind the Eagles, be realistic.

The first step is to rid themselves of the Tomlin cancer and then let the GM build the team and the coach do the coaching.

Tomlin is a cautionary tale of what happens when a coach gets absolute power.

Khan is building the team. He is going to have 60 million dollars in free agency to spend this offseason minimum and more money next offseason. They have drafted 5 o lineman in 2 years. This draft should be minimum 2 DL if they get more picks could see 3 drafted. Khan will be able to get any wr he wants to sign and he can sign a cb2 and NB.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Khan is building the team. He is going to have 60 million dollars in free agency to spend this offseason minimum and more money next offseason. They have drafted 5 o lineman in 2 years. This draft should be minimum 2 DL if they get more picks could see 3 drafted. Khan will be able to get any wr he wants to sign and he can sign a cb2 and NB.

Tomlin has way too much power in the draft room and he will never give up that power - so again be realistic.

He also is a shitty developer of talent.

Bell is the last legit star he drafted and developed on offense.

Watt is the last star he developed on D.

Tomlin is and has been the root cause of the decline of this org over the last 15 years.

The org can’t heal and get better until the Tomlin cancer is removed.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Tomlin has way too much power in the draft room and he will never give up that power - so again be realistic.

He also is a shitty developer of talent.

Bell is the last legit star he drafted and developed on offense.

Watt is the last star he developed on D.

Tomlin is and has been the root cause of the decline of this org over the last 15 years.

The org can’t heal and get better until the Tomlin cancer is removed.

they weren’t drafting to develop the last couple of years with Ben. It was to extend the window. These last 2 drafts they have drafted raw talent upside players

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

they weren’t drafting to develop the last couple of years with Ben. It was to extend the window. These last 2 drafts they have drafted raw talent upside players

You always draft to develop, cmon man.

And Bell was drafted in 2013 - you can’t draft another offensive star in over a decade?

That’s f***ing brutal - even you have to admit that.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

You always draft to develop, cmon man.

And Bell was drafted in 2013 - you can’t draft another offensive star in over a decade?

That’s f***ing brutal - even you have to admit that.

From 13 to 17 the invested one 2’d round pick or earlier on offense. Then from 17 to 21 it was all about extending Bens window. Juju DJ muth all got 2nd contracts here and made a pro bowl

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

From 13 to 17 the invested one 2’d round pick or earlier on offense. Then from 17 to 21 it was all about extending Bens window. Juju DJ muth all got 2nd contracts here and made a pro bowl

That’s all excuses once again.

The Pro Bowl is a joke so don’t go there - DJ and Juju in a combined ten seasons had a combined 2 1000 yard seasons (1 each).

That’s a joke.

DJ even forgot for an entire season he was suppose to score TDs.

Muth could be a star in a good system - but he’s in Tomlin’s offense so he’s just lost in a sea of talented TE around the league.

Tomlin has not developed a single star player on offense since Bell - it’s not up for debate, it’s a fact.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

That’s all excuses once again.

The Pro Bowl is a joke so don’t go there - DJ and Juju in a combined ten seasons had a combined 2 1000 yard seasons (1 each).

That’s a joke.

DJ even forgot for an entire season he was suppose to score TDs.

Muth could be a star in a good system - but he’s in Tomlin’s offense so he’s just lost in a sea of talented TE around the league.

Tomlin has not developed a single star player on offense since Bell - it’s not up for debate, it’s a fact.

No one is trying to debate it. You want to blame Tomlin for everything. I am giving Khan the benefit to continue building the team. If he is successful does Tomlin get credit

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

No one is trying to debate it. You want to blame Tomlin for everything. I am giving Khan the benefit to continue building the team. If he is successful does Tomlin get credit

You literally tried to cite pro bowls and second contracts so uh… ya you were trying to debate it.

And ya I will continue to point out that Tomlin is the root cause of the fall of this org - because he is.

He has absolute power - and that’s why things are a complete f***ing mess.

There is no fixing shit with him around - every issue leads back to him - it doesn’t matter who they draft when Tomlin can’t develop talent.

The talk about the draft, which FAs to bring in, what QB should be signed - it’s all inconsequential until Tomlin is removed.

I’ve told you this simple fact for years and every season ends the same - just like next season will.

And you still can’t piece it together - it’s almost fascinating to me at this point you can’t see it.

Tomlin. Is. The. Problem.

 

[pistolpete11]

elaborate

Stafford is 37 and Kupp is 32. Giving up the necessary draft capitol to have maybe 1 swing at it with them is foolish.