Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[Oscar Lindberg]

Laughing at the idea of people being pissed that the players may not be happy about their friends being sent away. Like yeah, no shit they’re probably not happy. Believe it or not they are human

And let’s be honest, everyone here would probably not be happy either if they were in that situation.

Astounding how people become so pro management in sports when management usually f***ing sucks across the board lol

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Laughing at the idea of people being pissed that the players may not be happy about their friends being sent away. Like yeah, no shit they’re probably not happy. Believe it or not they are human

And let’s be honest, everyone here would probably not be happy either if they were in that situation.

Astounding how people become so pro management in sports when management usually f***ing sucks across the board lol

I think that’s fine and certainly a reasonable human being reaction to that. I just don’t understand why it’s interesting enough to write about in the media. It’s an everyday occurrence in pro sports. There should be zero outrage. Understanding yes, outrage and media coverage, no.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I think that’s fine and certainly a reasonable human being reaction to that. I just don’t understand why it’s interesting enough to write about in the media. It’s an everyday occurrence in pro sports. There should be zero outrage. Understanding yes, outrage and media coverage, no.

Completely agreed. I get Goodrow not being happy. I get his teammates not being happy.

But to in any way imply this was anything but a harsh but ultimately above board move by the NYR is crazy. Your contract is what it says it is.

 

[RangerBoy]

Laughing at the idea of people being pissed that the players may not be happy about their friends being sent away. Like yeah, no shit they’re probably not happy. Believe it or not they are human

And let’s be honest, everyone here would probably not be happy either if they were in that situation.

Astounding how people become so pro management in sports when management usually f***ing sucks across the board lol

I am always pro management in labor stuff. These players will still get their money.

 

[RangerBoy]

Even after the team blew up after the letter I found reason for optimism even though I knew it was going to take a while to get back into the playoffs and that there were going to be missteps and setbacks along the way to that goal. The Rangers got back to being a playoff team in pretty quick time. We have a load of young talented players and a lot of very good prospects. The team dynamic is completely changed for the better even from 2014 when we made it to the SC finals. Winning a Cup ain't easy....there aren't any guarantees but we have a very good team right now that has a shot but also there are areas we need to focus on getting better.....but we're not an old team so we have time.

Some of the doom and gloom here I don't know. It makes me laugh sometimes. If someone is getting down that much it tells me he/she should give themselves a break and do something else for a while and maybe come back when their head is in a better place......hockey isn't the only thing that matters. Either that or they should schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist.

How are the Rangers taking the next step? These players are locked into these contracts. The Rangers are trying to work around them. How does a team work around their two highest forwards shying away from the dirty areas in the playoffs? It's not reality. The Rangers are in a tough spot with the roster. The media is talking about the trading deadline in March. The trading deadline???? The Rangers were supposed to have been all in at the last trade deadline. The Rangers were supposed to have been all in this summer. Did anything happen? No. Drury has run out of assets. Trading picks for rentals in not sustainable. He doesn't have much to trade. Kakko is a distressed asset. Drury has no cap room to make any changes. He has to save cap space for next summer. The trade deadline in March 2025. Save us. Which broken down and overpriced rentals are the Rangers acquiring? Bullshit. Nonsense. Build the team in the summer. Tweak at the deadline.

 

[kovazub94]

… Can’t have your cake and eat it too, life is about tradeoffs.

Unless you’re Trouba

 

[kovazub94]

I think YOU are missing the point, they are older, we have options, lowering their minutes might help in June. And they do not have to be taken totally off PK to get less minutes. Going from 20mins a game to 17, because of less PK, is a 15% reduction in TOI. 15% is OBJECTIVELY significant, that is not opinion. This isn't complicated. It can be situational. If we need a goal in a game, sure let them PK if the odds of a shortie go from 1% to 5%, though I doubt the odds are even that high. Otherwise we have plenty of players who are capable.
Again I'm not predicting, I'm proposing. You don't think it will happen? Fine.


Nail on the head there, buddy.

So what you are advocating for is REMOVING them from PK, because thats the only way to reduce their total minutes via PK

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

How are the Rangers taking the next step? These players are locked into these contracts. The Rangers are trying to work around them. How does a team work around their two highest forwards shying away from the dirty areas in the playoffs? It's not reality. The Rangers are in a tough spot with the roster. The media is talking about the trading deadline in March. The trading deadline???? The Rangers were supposed to have been all in at the last trade deadline. The Rangers were supposed to have been all in this summer. Did anything happen? No. Drury has run out of assets. Trading picks for rentals in not sustainable. He doesn't have much to trade. Kakko is a distressed asset. Drury has no cap room to make any changes. He has to save cap space for next summer. The trade deadline in March 2025. Save us. Which broken down and overpriced rentals are the Rangers acquiring? Bullshit. Nonsense. Build the team in the summer. Tweak at the deadline.

Probably will have many who disagree but IMO what we are going through is the chickens coming home to roost on “accelerating the rebuild.” Summer of 2019, Panarin and Trouba. Panarin individually is still a great signing but in the context of where the org was I questioned it at the time and still do. Hard to deny the 2 ECF runs but was never quite enough.

 

[bhamill]

So what you are advocating for is REMOVING them from PK, because thats the only way to reduce their total minutes via PK

What? How hard is it to understand that they can kill a penalty or two a game, or even just in situations where we need a goal, instead of EVERY penalty? Is there some sort of rule change no one told me about that a PKer HAS to kill EVERY penalty? I'm not sure if you are just f***ing with me here, because it is very possible, and in fact EASY, to reduce a player's PK minutes without taking him completely off penalty killing. You simply tap one of the other capable players on the shoulder 3 times out of 4, instead of Mika or Kreider... All that's required is the coach feeling like doing it... Say we are penalized four times in a game, normally that would mean maybe 4 mins of PK for 93 and 20. But instead the coach puts them out for only ONE shorthanded situation. Are they REMOVED from penalty killing? No. Obviously they killed a penalty. Are their minutes reduced? Yes. by 3 minutes. How is this a mystery? hahahaha.

 

[hardnosed]

I wonder if the Trouba mess was more bad timing than Drury screwing up. His trade list wasn't required until noon on July 1st. If Drury waited until then, he still gets shut out of the free agents. So he took a shot, hoping that since Trouba was from the Detroit area, he would agree to go there a couple days before free agency started. Where Drury could be blamed was not knowing or misreading the residency thing.

 

[SA16]

Where is the research showing that a 15% reduction in minutes is "objectively significant" and that it would help in the playoffs? Strikes me as an entirely made up statement but the good news is if you say it forcefully enough you can make it sound like it's true.

 

[Profet]

Probably will have many who disagree but IMO what we are going through is the chickens coming home to roost on “accelerating the rebuild.” Summer of 2019, Panarin and Trouba. Panarin individually is still a great signing but in the context of where the org was I questioned it at the time and still do. Hard to deny the 2 ECF runs but was never quite enough.

Disagree.

What we're seeing is the byproduct of terrible scouting and bad luck.

Terrible amateur scouting:
- Andersson
- Kravtsov

Terrible professional scouting:
- Blais
- Hajek
- Howden
- Namestnikov

Terrible luck:
- Kakko

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It's really non of the players business how the gm operates, imo there's a few players on this team that seem to have way too much input into how the club operates.

 

[bhamill]

Where is the research showing that a 15% reduction in minutes is "objectively significant" and that it would help in the playoffs? Strikes me as an entirely made up statement but the good news is if you say it forcefully enough you can make it sound like it's true.

15% is objectively considered statistically significant. If you can't grasp that I can't help you.
And I have said it MIGHT help in June. It's not a red hot take to think that older players having their workloads reduced might keep them from wearing down over the course of a possibly 110 game season...
You disagree it would help? Fine. Neither of us can prove it, so lets just ignore common sense. I don't need you to agree on what I think would help, however trying to say that 15% is insignificant is just incorrect whether you accept that fact or not. In fact 5% is usually accepted as the delineation for significance/insignificance.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Disagree.

What we're seeing is the byproduct of terrible scouting and bad luck.

Terrible amateur scouting:
- Andersson
- Kravtsov

Terrible professional scouting:
- Blais
- Hajek
- Howden
- Namestnikov

Terrible luck:
- Kakko

Kakko (and to a lesser degree Laf) are a result of terrible development as well

 

[SA16]

Disagree.

What we're seeing is the byproduct of terrible scouting and bad luck.

Terrible amateur scouting:
- Andersson
- Kravtsov

Terrible professional scouting:
- Blais
- Hajek
- Howden
- Namestnikov

Terrible luck:
- Kakko

Probably could make the same comment for every team. The Stanley Cup Champion Panthers have drafted a total of two full time NHL players since 2016 (Tippett/Lundell) and haven't drafted a single full time NHL player out of the first round since 2013 (Actually, I guess you could say one in Montembeault though that's more a function of him being on a rebuilding Montreal team than him being any good). So seems they've been fine despite terrible amateur scouting.

 

[bhamill]

Probably could make the same comment for every team. The Stanley Cup Champion Panthers have drafted a total of two full time NHL players since 2016 (Tippett/Lundell) and haven't drafted a single full time NHL player out of the first round since 2013 (Actually, I guess you could say one in Montembeault). So seems they've been fine despite terrible amateur scouting.

Do you mean a total of two players who play for them? Or overall? I haven't looked at draft years for players like Weegar or Huberduea or anyone else they used to get players like Matt Tkachuck or Reinhardt who they didn't draft but won with.
Edit: I looked at their draft classes and it's overall. I was a little shocked how long ago Hubs and Barkov were drafted. hahaha. Man, I'm getting OLD.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

3 2nds + Sykora + BMB + Jones + a sweetener
for
Lavoie, Holloway, Broberg

somethin like dat
I'd go there as step 1

Who is "BMB"?

 

[Raspewtin]

Who is "BMB"?

Bryce McConnell-Barker

 

[Profet]

Probably could make the same comment for every team. The Stanley Cup Champion Panthers have drafted a total of two full time NHL players since 2016 (Tippett/Lundell) and haven't drafted a single full time NHL player out of the first round since 2013 (Actually, I guess you could say one in Montembeault though that's more a function of him being on a rebuilding Montreal team than him being any good). So seems they've been fine despite terrible amateur scouting.

Crouse has been a full time NHLer for a bit.

But you're completely overlooking their long term success with professional scouting.

That Tkachuk trade was amazing as well as others. Their professional scouts seem to have a good grasp of when to acquire players, and when to move on from them.

Bennett, Reinhart, Tkachuk.

Home run trades.

When was the last time our pro scouts hit a homerun?

Strome for Spooner (who they acquired for Rick Nash... which was a fail)?

 

[SA16]

Crouse has been a full time NHLer for a bit.

But you're completely overlooking their long term success with professional scouting.

That Tkachuk trade was amazing as well as others. Their professional scouts seem to have a good grasp of when to acquire players, and when to move on from them.

Bennett, Reinhart, Tkachuk.

Home run trades.

When was the last time our pro scouts hit a homerun?

Strome for Spooner (who they acquired for Rick Nash... which was a fail)?

I suppose when they traded two second round picks for a guy who won a Norris? You can say he only wanted to come here but the same was true of Tkachuk who gave a very limited list.

15% is objectively considered statistically significant. If you can't grasp that I can't help you.
And I have said it MIGHT help in June. It's not a red hot take to think that older players having their workloads reduced might keep them from wearing down over the course of a possibly 110 game season...
You disagree it would help? Fine. Neither of us can prove it, so lets just ignore common sense. I don't need you to agree on what I think would help, however trying to say that 15% is insignificant is just incorrect whether you accept that fact or not. In fact 5% is usually accepted as the delineation for significance/insignificance.

That has to do with p-values and specific data sets not literally everything in the world. There is no way of knowing if a 15% change in ice time has any relevance at all. And in this case it's not only about the percentage of ice time but about the raw number. Are you going to tell me in terms of how tired and worn out a player gets is the same for Rempe going from 5 minutes to 5.75 minutes as it would be for MacKinnon going from 23 minutes to 26.5 minutes? Both are 15% increases.

Do you mean a total of two players who play for them? Or overall? I haven't looked at draft years for players like Weegar or Huberduea or anyone else they used to get players like Matt Tkachuck or Reinhardt who they didn't draft but won with.
Edit: I looked at their draft classes and it's overall. I was a little shocked how long ago Hubs and Barkov were drafted. hahaha. Man, I'm getting OLD.

Anton Lundell is the only player Florida has drafted since 2016 to become a full time NHL player for the Florida franchise.

 

[NYR Viper]

Crouse has been a full time NHLer for a bit.

But you're completely overlooking their long term success with professional scouting.

That Tkachuk trade was amazing as well as others. Their professional scouts seem to have a good grasp of when to acquire players, and when to move on from them.

Bennett, Reinhart, Tkachuk.

Home run trades.

When was the last time our pro scouts hit a homerun?

Strome for Spooner (who they acquired for Rick Nash... which was a fail)?

I'd argue that signing Vesey was a pretty big win. Maybe not to the same scale but he's been a good bottom-6 guy for peanuts. Gustafsson last year was also a win.

What about Jonathan Quick? He was supposedly 'done' as a NHL goalie.

 

[Profet]

I suppose when they traded two second round picks for a guy who won a Norris? You can say he only wanted to come here but the same was true of Tkachuk who gave a very limited list.

I mean... their choices were:

- Spend 2 second round picks to get Fox now
- Wait 1 season and get Fox for free

I don't disagree with their decision, but come on. Let's not act like they pulled that out of a hat.

 

[Profet]

I'd argue that signing Vesey was a pretty big win. Maybe not to the same scale but he's been a good bottom-6 guy for peanuts. Gustafsson last year was also a win.

What about Jonathan Quick? He was supposedly 'done' as a NHL goalie.

eh...

Vesey and Gustafsson were wins... sure... would I put them in the same category as others that have been mentioned? Never.

What about Wheeler, Bonino, Pitlick, etc?

Throwing crap at the wall and having a 4th liner and a bottom pair d-man stick are not big wins. That's just the minimum requirements of their job (to ice a full roster).

 

[Kravtsov420]

I had a dream last night, more like a nightmare. That we would fumble Othmann’s development over the usual organization nepotism. When will it end