Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[jay from jersey]

If Lindgren isn't signed for like 7 years and $5 mill per and surgically grafted to Fox's hip then I'm kinda "eh" on it

Like I said, I'd like to see the Rangers get a real top 4 LD to either play with Fox or move Miller up there to play with Fox and slide Lindgren down. Maybe he has some bounce back, maybe he'll just be a passable 3rd pairing guy and PKer with the right partner

If it's always gonna be him out there with Fox then....I just hope he magically bounces back and that's what Im' worried about the most.

Honestly, this team isn’t going to revamp 50% of their D after going to the conference finals and winning the pres trophy.
Trouba is on the chopping block cause he’s currently the worst of the bunch and he’s making the most money besides Fox.
Both he and Lindgren were staples on a solid PK, that also just lost Goodrow.

There will be moves. They need a RW or a 3C and slide chytil to wing for good.
That’s the route I’d go, but maybe that’s just me…..
Go get a good young Swiss Army knife wing with a nasty disposition, keep Lindgren around for PK - pair him with Schneider or hopefully a solid mentor with Jones.
Trouba being traded would be addition by subtraction at this point in time. Lindgren not so much. At least you know it case of injury, he can play with Fox if needed.

The Buchnevich saga is actually a great teachable moment that you don't punt on existing quality players for magic beans.

No one would care if Kakko and Kravtsov held up their end of the bargain instead of shitting the bed. Too bad they sucked.

Also, don’t be cheap over 1 yr or 1million extra dollars…
95% the cause of us targeting Blais was that schmuck Gorts trying to lowball Fast.
They were trying to get a younger/cheaper version with better hands. Also coming off a strong playoff year

 

[mas0764]

I am hardly a big Zibanejad booster but I don't see how deleting him off the roster in 2022 for presumably medium quality magic beans makes the Rangers in a better spot.

Punting your 1C because he's not a good enough 1C is a good way to not have any 1Cs.

Sure, but you have flexibility.

I consider flexibility better than knowingly not good enough.

 

[noncents]

The Buchnevich saga is actually a great teachable moment that you don't punt on existing quality players for magic beans.

No one would care if Kakko and Kravtsov held up their end of the bargain instead of shitting the bed. Too bad they sucked.

you don't punt on existing quality players (top 4 D or top 6 fwd) for anything but strict upgrade. You don't "make space" for them in the lineup. You don't "make space" on the cap sheet to bring in expensive gritty depth.

it's the single north star for NHL competitive success, which is of course asset/cap management. acquire only good assets, pay only good players, deploy only good players.

overpaying in terms of acquisition costs for elite assets doesn't kill you. overallocating cap resources for bad assets is what kills you. Rangers haven't demonstrated an understanding of this yet.

 

[effen]

The more I think about it Lindgren lowballing himself so he doesn't get traded is some 5D chess.

Respect.

 

[mas0764]

all roads lead to buchnevich

I supported trading the player at the time it was being discussed because I believed a 25 year old soon to be PPG first line winger could fetch the necessary ingredients for a future top 6 (or even top-line) center, if you were successful enough.

In retrospect, and by "in retrospect," I mean literally the second after the return was announced, it was clear that, if that was the best offer for him (and I'm not convinced that it was), then keeping him and making space for him was the best idea.

you don't punt on existing quality players (top 4 D or top 6 fwd) for anything but strict upgrade. You don't "make space" for them in the lineup. You don't "make space" on the cap sheet to bring in expensive gritty depth.

it's the single north star for NHL competitive success, which is of course asset/cap management. acquire only good assets, pay only good players, deploy only good players.

overpaying in terms of acquisition costs for elite assets doesn't kill you. overallocating cap resources for bad assets is what kills you. Rangers haven't demonstrated an understanding of this yet.

Yes, this.

I think it's fair to "make room," for a 2nd overall pick that everyone thinks is a can't-miss prospect.

What's not fair is to trade Buch JUST to make room and accept a piddling return. This isn't a net negative player like Trouba who you are better off just cause they aren't around.

This is a first line winger who was 25.

If Blais and a second is your best offer, you keep him. Goodrow can be cut out of the equation if you need money.

 

[effen]

Sure, but you have flexibility.

I consider flexibility better than knowingly not good enough.

Sure but the Rangers have enough to get anyone they want who is actually on the market if they want to pay the asking price. I don't think any amount of extra 1sts or random PPG WHL guys is what separates them from getting their target. K'Andre Miller is more valuable right now than pretty much any draft pick or prospect outside the super duper surefire ones.

The issue is 1Cs come on the market hardly ever.

 

[mas0764]

The more I think about it Lindgren lowballing himself so he doesn't get traded is some 5D chess.

Respect.

I've made the argument before that, and I'm throwing out hypothetical numbers here, it's better to make $4m a year and be somewhere you want to be, than to make $5m or $6m a year somewhere you hate, or even like substantially less.

People usually respond with "You'd take the most money if it was you," but I don't think I would, honestly. I'd rather make $20m playing with the NY Rangers for 10 years than $30m but have to spend half my career in, say, San Jose playing completely non-competitive hockey.

Now if the difference is $20m, versus, like, $100m, ok, now I take the money difference. But it's usually not that drastic.

 

[noncents]

what's fun (read: not bloody fun) about modern re-evaluation of the buchnevich trade is that you can think of it as, like Walman + 2nd, Nemeth + 2 2nds, Mikheyev + Lafferty + 2nd, Blais was a cap dump for Stl. They paid us a 2nd to take Blais off their hands, but instead of nothing, or a 4th, or future considerations, we gave them a cost controlled 25 year old 1st line winger who fit perfectly with our first line, played in all situations, was homegrown, loved it here, had an edge, was endearingly quirky, and was willing to sign what has become an absolute bargain of a contract. Fun!

 

[kovazub94]

i feel like we need a poll.

What is better for NYR:

A. Trade Trouba, extend Lindgren short term and play him on the 2nd or 3rd pair.
B. Trade Lindgrens rights, play Trouba on the 3rd pair.

I think you should have started with the assumption that Drury was able to address Fox's partner issue as step 1 and it cost $x m AAV.
After this IMO this becomes purely a financial decision because of the salaries' difference and the cap, and even if Trouba is marginally better player I cannot justify $3m-$4m higher spent on a 3rd-pair D as the difference between these two.

 

[LOFIN]

The Buchnevich saga is actually a great teachable moment that you don't punt on existing quality players for magic beans.

No one would care if Kakko and Kravtsov held up their end of the bargain instead of shitting the bed. Too bad they sucked.

Meh, I still maintain that at the time it was the smart decision, considering the cap and whatnot.

What sucked was the return. Obviously in retrospect, you would do things differently but at the time, most of the people agreed that Buch should be traded, the price was HORRIBLE. One of the worse trades in the last 5 years.

 

[Tob]

N e thing gud yet

 

[Boris Zubov]

The more I think about it Lindgren lowballing himself so he doesn't get traded is some 5D chess.

Respect.

Is there a source or a link?

 

[noncents]

Meh, I still maintain that at the time it was the smart decision, considering the cap and whatnot.

What sucked was the return. Obviously in retrospect, you would do things differently but at the time, most of the people agreed that Buch should be traded, the price was HORRIBLE. One of the worse trades in the last 5 years.

i don't think you can separate the two. if the return wasn't there, the trade should have been made. the only "issue" was oh noo we'll have too many good players and not enough time to play them.

 

[LOFIN]

i don't think you can separate the two. if the return wasn't there, the trade should have been made. the only "issue" was oh noo we'll have too many good players and not enough time to play them.

Obviously that trade should not have been made. It should've been for better value. I don't think we could've made it work with Buch at the time, signing Kreider was the death nail for Buch in NY.

 

[effen]

Is there a source or a link?

It was from Twitter, don't remember who but not a random saying the NYR and Lindgren are in talks for an extension and it's 'reasonable' which you pretty much never hear.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It was from Twitter, don't remember who but not a random saying the NYR and Lindgren are in talks for an extension and it's 'reasonable' which you pretty much never hear.

Seravallis trade board.

 

[Vitto79]

If Trouba Goes signing a cheap vet like Suter or Myers 1 yr won’t shock me

 

[noncents]

Obviously that trade should not have been made. It should've been for better value. I don't think we could've made it work with Buch at the time, signing Kreider was the death nail for Buch in NY.

ignoring the return, i disagree.


excepting goodrow and nemeth there was no cap related impetus to trade him at that time.

the theories for buch trade impetus are:

kakko needed ice time
space for eichel trade
grit and depth (goodrow/nemeth)
didn't like the guy (car accident)

or some combination of the above.

none of these were valid reasons. the idea that buch should be traded was erroneous.

 

[Gardner McKay]

If Trouba Goes signing a cheap vet like Suter or Myers 1 yr won’t shock me

Wade Redden at his current age could skate circles around Suter. He has regressed that badly.

I'm all for a cheap vet. Just not that one please.

 

[Levitate]

Wade Redden at his current age could skate circles around Suter. He has regressed that badly.

I'm all for a cheap vet. Just not that one please.

he's also apparently a giant jerk to everyone

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah honestly if there is something in place with a team that would be on his "yes" list, there is nothing that stands in the way of something getting done before July 1.

I saw Trouba for Chiarot straight up floated around and it made sense as they have equal term left on their deals, but it's only something I'd consider if Lindgren were on the move as well. I do not want a left side of Chiarot and Lindgren.

Chiarot takes a lot of lazy penalties. With or without Lindgen there I think there are better options.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

The Buchnevich saga is actually a great teachable moment that you don't punt on existing quality players for magic beans.

No one would care if Kakko and Kravtsov held up their end of the bargain instead of shitting the bed. Too bad they sucked.

And what’s funny is everyone wants to punt on Kakko now

 

[Clark Kellogg]

wouldn’t NYR be asking Trouba for his 15 teams regardless? Since his contract status is changing?

Got a late start today so I’m not sure if this has already been answered.
The list is compulsory and due by his agent on or before July first.
I believe it is also registered with the NHL.

 

[bernmeister]

Moving Kreider and Panarin are possibility but given their contribution I see these as highly unlikely. Compare to where Trouba (and Goodrow) is in terms of roster building - essentially 3RD - the former two are unchallenged top-line and top-6 forwards that are not realistically be pushed out of these roles during their contracts.

These are NOT the same.
Kreid defies time, for now, remains in beyond excellent physical shape, is our only guy for beast factor if you do speed + size + strength, produces, will take close to current to stay here, and retire a Ranger.

bread is not sniffing 11+m, and not getting renewed -> low offer = ugly
He is an immediate fit to FL, regardless of if Rein comes back
Take Mikkola + cap space + picks

i feel like we need a poll.

What is better for NYR:

A. Trade Trouba, extend Lindgren short term and play him on the 2nd or 3rd pair.
B. Trade Lindgrens rights, play Trouba on the 3rd pair.

Neither. Answer is listen to bern,
C -1 deal Lindy + 4th for 2 2nds to UT
C- 2 deal Trouba retained 1.5 = 6.5 x 2 + 2024 3rd to wherever for 2 2nds

DEAL BOTH
bank picks
add cap

Kakko for Rudiger McMoriarty 1 for 1 do it Chris
...

NO, pls no
We deal bread, we need KK + his upside, don't give away cheap
Don't do it Chris
listen to bern

I'm aware of the ages of our current players.

Short-term is stuff like Tarasenko, Kane, Mikkola, Wennberg, Roslovic.

If that list is meant to mean we don't have a short window, it depends on how some of those players develop, and what we do with the older players on our roster.

I wouldn't say our window is short right now, but I don't run the team. I can't stop Drury from making short-term moves. Some of those prospects could get traded for older player, thus shortening our window. Some of them may bust and, given all the picks we've traded, we have less chances to replace them, thus shortening our window.

This isn't hard to understand.

While not saying bern is right, this ^ is saying bern is right.

Ok question for the CBA geniuses.

Can Trouba be waived now that he only has a limited NTC? Or does the NMC stay throughout the duration of the contract?

Why waive when we retain 1.5 and add a 4th and we get 2 2nds and 6.5 of cap space back?

all roads lead to buchnevich

yes, many not nec all, but not in the way you think...

The Buchnevich saga is actually a great teachable moment that you don't punt on existing quality players for magic beans.

No one would care if Kakko and Kravtsov held up their end of the bargain instead of shitting the bed. Too bad they sucked.

.... b'c NO
the lesson here is listen to bern
I wanted to deal Buch way before his term was reduced to a min of the last of his ufa status

w/or w'o Georgiev or other add, we had opportunities for much better return than what we got after we painted us into a corner
There was high 1st from EDM like 8oA, 10oA, somethin like dat
and others

So the teaching moment is not selling high without a good reason is not good asset mgmt and will come back to bite you in the ass

live AND LEARN
with da bern!

And what’s funny is everyone wants to punt on Kakko now

not everyone

Chiarot takes a lot of lazy penalties. With or without Lindgen there I think there are better options.

Chiarot has fallen, big time
STAY AWAY

 

[noncents]

And what’s funny is everyone wants to punt on Kakko now

it's why Rangers fans as a whole don't really deserve to have their team win. We boo great players and teams, we're incredibly impatient and entitled, we feed the media machine that influences ownership to make bad decisions and then blame players when we reap what the team sows.

personally i blame Yankee fans who feel like it's a disappointment if their team doesn't win it every year, and calls it "having pride in the organization."