Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[80shockeywasbuns]

If the Rangers actually got rid of Lindgren and Trouba, my faith would increase exponentially.

And maybe they still don't win the Cup because it's hard, but I'm more willing to accept "hey, it's hard" if they make an honest effort to put good players at every slot in the lineup.

The thing I find confusing is that the posters who want to focus on removing the 2-3 horrible players, who stayed consistent on this opinion the entire year, get labeled as overly negative for “scapegoating” a few guys. You’d think it would be viewed as a positive outlook to think the team is a legit contender outside of a couple easily moved replacement level bums

 

[gravey9]

It's tough with a sport like hockey IMO where you have more moving pieces and players on the ice at any given time. Drawing all of those guys together into one identity isn't always easy and the big issue I see at this point is just that if you go the route of "we need to ditch Zibanejad and Panarin because they don't get it done in the playoffs because they don't have that grit" then you're really putting the team a big couple of steps back if you don't have replacements, and it's hard to replace those guys!

So yeah, you're trying to figure out how to work with the talent you have to build something with, not tear out the talent and try to build it back up with different talent. That's hard, takes a long time, and probably isn't totally realistic for a team that is generally as close as the Rangers. Once in a blue moon a deal like what Florida pulled comes along but that's very rare.

But where is this new core and identity piece? Who's gonna give up those pieces to the Rangers? Again, yeah a deal like what Florida pulled for Tkachuck would be ideal BUT I find it very unlikely another one is sitting out there that wouldn't cost the Rangers players like Laf in return.


I agree there also needs to be some focus on how this team is transitioning away from Panarin as the main go to guy and how to replace that production one way or another. It is why I dont' think they're keen on moving their 1st round picks but their current prospects aren't quite ready to make an impact. Maybe Perreault in another year.`

We've now gone on two runs in 3 years where our identity was built around Shesty and the Kid line and then Shesty and Laf/Panarin/Tro line. Add in Rempe this year too. Notice that in both runs, our supposed first line was not necessarily a key part of that playoff identity -- certainly not by the end.

I am not saying we need to jettison players as much as i'm saying we need to identify the players who will define our style, define our gumption and what makes teams fear us in some way. Would strongly prefer that be a core player. Because one Tkachuk is worth 2-3 Callahans or Hagelins in regards to dragging your team into the fight.

If we built a bottom 6 that played meaningful minutes and steamrolled opponents that could easily be the thing that transforms how teams game plan against us. It would create more time and space for our skill guys because it could wear out opponents. Part of our problem as a team is that we're top heavy in that we rely very heavily on our top 6 and we haven't really trusted our bottom 6 enough. And when our top 6 players slump or play a bit too soft and they're still given the lion share of TOI it becomes our identity.

Things were definitely better this year with Lavi re: identity. But there were times, especially towards the latter half of the season where it was clear certain players weren't particularly effective and we were still over relying on them. Ideally I want my coach to have the flexibilty and the confidence to go, hey this game is really tight checking or physical and I'm going to rely a bit more on my bottom 6 to play fast and in a straight line and wear down the opponent.

I would love a situation where Zib/Kreider were given less 5v5 because our bottom 6 were just creating long stretches of forecheck/cycle/zone time. I remember being so happy when Carl Hagelin came over the boards on a 3rd or 4th line because I knew he was going to wear out opponents with his speed and forecheck. The Torts Rangers also had that ability where you might see the bottom 6 play more minutes in big games at ES because they were just better.

Outside of possibly Cuylle we don't really have speedy, hardnosed, skilled group of forwards for our bottom 6 that could allow Zib, Kreider, Panarin to be more effective because they could even be freed up from handling the top matchups. Edstrom maybe. Berard, Othmann and Sykora are likely not ready yet. And I'm not sure Othmann will be ready if he doesn't work his butt off. Rempe is likely going to take a few years to work on his skating, balance and leg strength before he can be truly effective playing bigger minutes. Chytil is unfortunately an unknown.

I suppose if we're stuck with this core for cap/no trade reasons, then I would put a lot of effort into building a bottom 6 out that can play big minutes and effect the game in a big way and drag the entire roster into the fight.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

We've now gone on two runs in 3 years where our identity was built around Shesty and the Kid line and then Shesty and Laf/Panarin/Tro line. Add in Rempe this year too. Notice that in both runs, our supposed first line was not necessarily a key part of that playoff identity -- certainly not by the end.

I am not saying we need to jettison players as much as i'm saying we need to identify the players who will define our style, define our gumption and what makes teams fear us in some way. Would strongly prefer that be a core player. Because one Tkachuk is worth 2-3 Callahans or Hagelins in regards to dragging your team into the fight.

If we built a bottom 6 that played meaningful minutes and steamrolled opponents that could easily be the thing that transforms how teams game plan against us. It would create more time and space for our skill guys because it could wear out opponents. Part of our problem as a team is that we're top heavy in that we rely very heavily on our top 6 and we haven't really trusted our bottom 6 enough. And when our top 6 players slump or play a bit too soft and they're still given the lion share of TOI it becomes our identity.

Things were definitely better this year with Lavi re: identity. But there were times, especially towards the latter half of the season where it was clear certain players weren't particularly effective and we were still over relying on them. Ideally I want my coach to have the flexibilty and the confidence to go, hey this game is really tight checking or physical and I'm going to rely a bit more on my bottom 6 to play fast and in a straight line and wear down the opponent.

I would love a situation where Zib/Kreider were given less 5v5 because our bottom 6 were just creating long stretches of forecheck/cycle/zone time. I remember being so happy when Carl Hagelin came over the boards on a 3rd or 4th line because I knew he was going to wear out opponents with his speed and forecheck. The Torts Rangers also had that ability where you might see the bottom 6 play more minutes in big games at ES because they were just better.

Outside of possibly Cuylle we don't really have speedy, hardnosed, skilled group of forwards for our bottom 6 that could allow Zib, Kreider, Panarin to be more effective because they could even be freed up from handling the top matchups. Edstrom maybe. Berard, Othmann and Sykora are likely not ready yet. And I'm not sure Othmann will be ready if he doesn't work his butt off. Rempe is likely going to take a few years to work on his skating, balance and leg strength before he can be truly effective playing bigger minutes. Chytil is unfortunately an unknown.

I suppose if we're stuck with this core for cap/no trade reasons, then I would put a lot of effort into building a bottom 6 out that can play big minutes and effect the game in a big way and drag the entire roster into the fight.

Berard is ready. He was among the best AHL rookies in production and his skillset entirely translates to 5v5 hockey and is what the rangers suck ass at. (Speed, puck carrying).

 

[bl02]

Berard is ready. He was among the best AHL rookies in production and his skillset entirely translates to 5v5 hockey and is what the rangers suck ass at. (Speed, puck carrying).

If Berard plays even close to the way he did last year in Hartford especially the 2nd half of the season he is definitely ready. I hope he comes to camp in shape and ready. Edstrom/Berard are by far our two ready to go prospects right now.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

If Berard plays even close to the way he did last year in Hartford especially the 2nd half of the season he is definitely ready. I hope he comes to camp in shape and ready. Edstrom/Berard are by far our two ready to go prospects right now.

Berard was ready for a look mid season. NYR really could’ve used him on the 3L. A 3L with Berard/Brodz/Kakko probably would’ve been better than what they rolled. Two speedsters to wheel the puck north south and hopefully find some way to play off Kakkos whirling dervish routine in the o zone

 

[Vitto79]

Since Kane is 35, they can bring him back on a bonus laden contract. 1 year, $2.5MM base and an additional $1MM In easily obtainable bonuses.

Is it smart to push Money into next year with Igor , Laf, Miller raises ?

 

[jay from jersey]

Kane isn’t going to do the dirty work on a line with Kreider/mika.
Hes not going to be 1st in on the forecheck, he’s not going to set up camp in the middle of the circles and in front of the goalie….
Rangers need a bowling ball type for that. Go get me zetterlund. He’s a better Swiss Army knife version of Fast/Blackwell. He can also drop down anywhere in the top 9 if they add at the TDL.
Splitting up Kreider/mika at 5 v 5 should be the goal.
Kane makes an already crowded roster of skill more crowded. It’s makes PP1 harder for Laf to get time, which he should be on already.
I expect Cuylle and Laf to be better. I expect Berard/Edstrom/jones to start on the roster with so cheap vets signed for depth/rotation.
Panarin isn’t going to score 120pts next season. Tros numbers probably decline as well. Laf should increase and mitigate tros decline…
Berard and cuylle can make up 2/3 of a dangerous 3rd line. Chytil is the wildcard. I want him gone.
If any of the top 9 is as big of an injury risk as him, they can’t be counted on. Either trade him or stick him in a rotation at wing. Get a dependable offensive 3C that plays a high tempo game/pace like Colton. Actually make 3 lines capable of scoring on any given night.
Jones deserves a shot at the 6D. And I’m not his largest supporter, but his play the 2nd half of the season warrants it tbh. Edstrom as well.
Sign a depth D, and a Depth Fwd, get a Swiss Army knife like zetterlund, and try to upgrade on Chytil.

 

[94leetch]

I get the feeling the league wants Kane in NY.
It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

My biggest problem with Kane is that you can't use him on line 1 and you can't use him on line 4. Is he displacing Lafreniere on the Panarin line? Will they actually put him on the 3rd line? I think his name carries so much weight it is like the Mika and Kreider thing all over again. Everyone knows they should be split for the betterment of the team but they won't do it. If Kane comes in and plays a 3rd line with Chytil I can accept him coming, if they force him on the mika line and feed him pp1 mins I'm out.

 

[leetch99]

how would you guys feel if Drury was trying to trade up this year to draft Zeev Buium?

No big deal . A draft pick is about 4 years away from contributing to a solid Cup club . Our window is 5 years or less ......so I doubt they play much of a role other than a trade chip at some point for a rental for another run .

 

[Shesterkybomb]

No big deal . A draft pick is about 4 years away from contributing to a solid Cup club . Our window is 5 years or less ......so I doubt they play much of a role other than a trade chip at some point for a rental for another run .

I keep hearing our window is short, why is that? If we're smart it isn't, we have s first pick this year, othmann, berard, sykora, Perrault, Garand etc in the minors. As players age out you need to have guys to come in, your window is as long as you want it to be as long as you keep adding young talent.

 

[GAGLine]

I keep hearing our window is short, why is that? If we're smart it isn't, we have s first pick this year, othmann, berard, sykora, Perrault, Garand etc in the minors. As players age out you need to have guys to come in, your window is as long as you want it to be as long as you keep adding young talent.

It drives me nuts. A lot of people think our window is short, and therefore we should trade picks and prospects for short-term fixes, but trading picks and prospects for short-term fixes is exactly what creates the short window.

 

[Crease]

Windows or not, I struggle to care much who the Rangers draft if outside the top three, when the goal next season is to get to the Final. Like, just draft BPA and get back to work on this roster. I know GMs can focus on two things at once but that’s how I feel.

 

[leetch99]

I keep hearing our window is short, why is that? If we're smart it isn't, we have s first pick this year, othmann, berard, sykora, Perrault, Garand etc in the minors. As players age out you need to have guys to come in, your window is as long as you want it to be as long as you keep adding young talent.

I don't think 5 yrs is a short window by any means . considering we just had 3 cracks at it .

 

[MrAlmost]

Our window isn't short. We had one of the youngest teams. We had like 9 guys 25 and under. The Panthers and Oilers had 2, together.

Laf, Cuylle, Chytil, Kakko, Fox, Lindgren, Schneider, Miller, Berard, Rempe, Othmann, Edstrom, Perreault.

As long as we keep our 1st round picks and make smarter acquisitions, this team can be competitive for a long time.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I get the feeling the league wants Kane in NY.
It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

If the league wants to exempt his cap hit on our team then i’m all for him coming.

 

[bernmeister]

Gabe would 100% need to go.


It sounds like they’re more open to moving their D (even outside of Chychrun.) Sanderson is off the table but the rest of them can be had if you want.

no sandy, no deal
other assets [other than maybe Pinto/Greig] not worth projected prices

 

[NYR Viper]

I rather the Rangers see if they have any Dom Moore types in the system before overpaying for bottom 6 players.

They don't right now. A year from now? Maybe. If Chmelar, Rempe, BMB and Sykora develop for another year it's possible but no one is pushing right now.

And I say this assuming Edstrom has a locked spot and Berard is a 3rd liner, not a 4th liner

 

[bernmeister]

Get me Chychrun!

NO

Replacing Lindgren and Trouba with Roy and Walker would be such a vast improvement it’s hard to put in to words. Collectively, Roy and Walker probably come in at a lesser collective cap hit than Trouba and Lindgren. Probably like $10m vs $12m. Walker plays both sides, Roy is a RD.

Sign me up for that. I still think an offseason of Dillon/Roy would be a coup too

prob here is these guys want term, so no
IF we could sightly-moderately overpay these guys 1-2 yrs max, then ok, but they will get mo elsewhere so no
can't do feelgood now which seeds probs later
be smarter beforehand at sq 1 if/whenever possible

What did BUF ask us for Eichel? Didn't we balk on Kakko which in retrospect was stupid (1000% hindsight bias)?

The trade probably could have been Buchnevich, Kakko, 1st, 2nd (although those draft picks could have been Sykora, Othmann)

Peeps wanna recriminate about Eichel, knock yersef out. We should focus rather than handwringing.
Howev, what was real, which has been forgotten, and is a huge factor here, is that Eich wanted a specific medical procedure for his neck/back, which Sabes did not concur/would not underwrite.
Hence there was legit risk in price paid if after acquiring Jack the procedure did not work, and there would be no recovery for spent assets on damaged return.

I’m okay with keeping Lindgren if and only if it’s short term and we drop him to the bottom pair

Sorry no
Lindy + 4th = 2 2nds
DO ITDO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT

I get that but there isn’t anyone internally ready for that role. They’ll need to sing someone unless it’s Brodzinski

At a minimum, Edstrom, so no

Hate the guy much ?
He’s a good player and the guys love him
If he’s gonna take less than he can get elsewhere

gonna be fun seeing you flip when the extension hits lol

Ef all that bs, I like the guy, I appreciate what he's done, but cap is reality, and all of it has to be available for best roster mgmt
Lindy has huge wear and tear
MAYBE he has 1-2 yrs left before complete physical breakdown

add the 4th + take 2 2nds and be grateful UT has picks + need

Probably can find a random
Brodz should be in the AHL just like he started this year

disagree
Brodz at worst is 13th here

Edstrom didn’t play much center in the AHL last year. I think they see him as a winger

Believed in brief appearance here it was a pivot, and as long as he can handle it, he should be tried at C
We have to stop not developing internally if we can help it

There is no way he is able to trade into the to top 7.

Unless Shesty, or maybe LaF

we're gonna miss Trouba after he's gone you know that right? You'll hear screams of "WE NEED MUH GRIT" from the fanbase. Drury better have a solidified plan because you're not replacing that sandpaper that easily.

Regardless, have to cut the cord and make tough choices
We did not listen to bern, and stupidly did not
-- avoid rentals depleting cheap youth assets
-- stupidly did like Kratsov instead of Dobson

Trouba retained 1.5 to 6.5 x 2 + NYR 2024 2nd gets 2 2nds
DO IT

How I would like the offseason to go:

Trouba to Utah for one of their 2nds: They literally don't have a single NHL defenseman signed for next year at this point. Trouba is a big name, and could draw some attention for new fans. As of right now, they're over 20M below the cap floor...

Lindgren's rights + 30OA to Vegas for Theodore.: Vegas is in a major Cap crunch, and just signed Hanifin to a long term deal. The writing is on the wall for Theodore. They add an NHL D and save some Cap in the process.

Sign Scheider to 3.5M X 3: This is the Lindgren deal adjusted for inflation.

Utah's 2nd + our 4th for Farabee: TBH I haven't the slightest idea of what fair value would be in this deal. He's a decent young player, but making 5M for the next 4 years. Would be a calculated risk.

Chytil & Kakko for Zegras: Ducks get 2 young players, save about 1M in the process. Might have to add in another prospect here.

....
Thoughts?

Trouba to Utah for one of their 2nds: ...
prefer my deal, JT retained 1.5 = 6.5, add our 2024 3rd get 2 2nds


Lindgren's rights + 30OA to Vegas for Theodore.: ...
NO
Lindy + a 4th gets 2 2nds
prefer to keep our pick
Not sure what market is for Theo, let's see
but also what long term commitment are we undertaking?
Scanlin may show enuf in camp, Fortescue only a yr behind

Sign Scheider to 3.5M X 3: ...
NO, with an *
W/cap from dealing Troub + Lindy, sign Schneid + KAM long term
this is best long term strategy keep down cap hit

Utah's 2nd + our 4th for Farabee: ...He's a decent young player, but making 5M for the next 4 years. Would be a calculated risk.
Not worth risk and cost only if super cheap

Chytil & Kakko for Zegras: ...
Ducks don't do it view Zeg higher.
That may change, but not now.
Not keen on ditching Chy w/o seeing what he has left.
Remember Aaron Ekblad had multiple severe concussions, and happily he is fine.
I'd give FC more room, and if nec, LTIR is last resort

We are not renewing bread
should deal him now and avoid ugly situation
he is a fit and will go to FL who has to want as a stopgap or add w/Rein possible ufa exit
Only Mikkola 3.x x 2 + like 7.5 cap relief
IN THAT CONTEXT
moving cheap Ws w/upside would be mistake

Dr

Drury would have to trade Shesterkin to get into the top 8.

Concur, but only seeing fit MAYBE is ANA
package
principals are 3OA + Zeg for extended Shesty ++
I want the 6'7 D projected at 3OA

I can’t see the rangers trading lindgren if they trade trouba
That’d probably be a bit much of a shakeup but my hope would be finding a real partner for Fox and sliding lindgren down the lineup

cue music from Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody
"... open your eyes, look up to the skies, and see..."


peace out for a while peeps

 

[eco's bones]

I like a lot of our forward prospects. I only really look at Perreault as top line material. I think Othmann has the potential to be a 2nd line forward. We have a bunch of guys who look like really possibilities to become bottom 6 NHL players--Berard, Laba, Chmelar, McConnell-Barker, Rempe, Edstrom, Sykora, Roobroeck. Some might not hit but I think the majority of them will and it's too many for one team to handle so some will probably eventually move on to other NHL teams. For the near future with a lot of these guys on ELC and second contracts it should make Drury's job of handling the cap a lot more manageable and bottom 6 players won't be huge cap hits so that we can put more cap $'s to top end players.

It's important at the same time to continue to draft and bring in other younger players in the years to come pretty much for the same purpose to siphon more cap $'s to top end players.

To me the closest two are Rempe and Edstrom. It's size, speed, willingness to use size, willingness to adapt themselves to a 4th line role. Othmann's two way game needs some work. He feasted on the power play in Hartford. He only had something like 22 points at even strength and ended the year as a -24.....the worst on his team. Some of those -'s will be for being on the wrong end of empty net goals but even so I don't think he's ready but we'll see how he does in training camp. If he does make it the likelihood of his getting much power play time is not great. Berard statistically to me was somewhat better. He also got some penalty kill time and even though a smaller player than Othmann more of his goals came in tight. Again though it's training camp and he's going to have to beat out the competition. That said both should get some NHL action next year.

 

[NYR Viper]

 

[McRanger92]

Wanted him when he signed with Dallas but I think he’s been cooked for awhile

 

[NYR Viper]

Wanted him when he signed with Dallas but I think he’s been cooked for awhile

I did as well, but I would not have given him 4 years...That was the crazy part.

Cap Hit Calculations​

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( DAL)
2024-25	$4,300,000	$3,650,000	$0	$1,433,334	$1,433,334	$2,866,666	$783,334
2025-26	$0	$0	$0	$1,433,334	$1,433,334	-$1,433,334	$1,433,334
TOTAL	$4,300,000	$3,650,000	$0	$2,866,667	$2,866,667	$1,433,333	$2,216,668

 

[McRanger92]

I did as well, but I would not have given him 4 years...That was the crazy part.

Maybe Dallas is a suitor for Trouba, if they lose Tanev. Their Defense is getting thin.

 

[bhamill]

They don't right now. A year from now? Maybe. If Chmelar, Rempe, BMB and Sykora develop for another year it's possible but no one is pushing right now.

And I say this assuming Edstrom has a locked spot and Berard is a 3rd liner, not a 4th liner

A year/off season can make a big difference, we will find out in camp.