Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[GoAwayPanarin]

Totally agree.

The worst part is there were some very light rumors that Chychrun was available at the deadline. Lindgren has been an issue for years now. I really don't understand how any person who watches hockey believes he should be on the first pair. He's miles worse than Kevin Klein who was our 3rd pairing defender when we went to the finals.

Lindgren is probably best suited for Hartford or as a 7th D. Imagine if Drury had offered a very strong package for Chych at the deadline and we upgraded Lindgren to Chych with Lindy acting as the 7th (or maybe getting moved in the package)? Do we perform better with that? Potentially make the cup if we stay healthy? I think it's possible.

For years now, dating back to Quinn, the Rangers have done some freak shit in prioritizing friendships on the team and personal feelings above winning. Lindy with Fox, Kreider with Mika, despite all evidence pointing to these pairs being dog shit for full seasons now. It's absolutely wild that we lit what may be our best chance at a cup in decades on fire to keep friends together. This isn't f***ing peewee.

They were never going to replace those guys in season as much as some of us wanted it to happen unless they got too hurt to play. Teams generally don't do that and it sucks because plenty of us saw it becoming a problem once they got into the playoffs.

If the FO didn't want to rock the boat, fine. Now that their boat has gotten rocked by Florida they better replace the weak links on the D with actual players. @Raspewtin mentioned it in another thread, the D looked SO MUCH better when Trouba and Lindgren were out and replaced by Jones and Ruhweedel. If replacement level players are going to make that drastic of a change, what would the D look like with actual good players in those spots?

Chychrun is probably still available so if they want to right that wrong, it's there to be done.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

This quote from Gallant aged well

this loss just confirmed to me that the coach doesnt matter, at the end of the day this core just cant get it done

 

[Foxy]

HockeyStatMiner put out his offseason excel with depth chart and yea, it looks like it'll be the same team next year. Until Drury actually has the balls to do it, I can't see him dumping the captain. It'll be same team.

Yeah, unfortunately running the same team back again is the safest (job security wise) and the most straight forward moves for Drury to make this off season.

He pretty much ran the same team back from last year, just with new coaching staff. I could see him giving it one more attempt. Feel like after next season, when Laf, Igor and Miller are up from new contracts, maybe it forces his hand a bit more.

That said, he's been pretty good at identifying our weaknesses, just hasn't been great at fixing them, so I think there is a small chance he will attempt to move Trouba this offseason, given he's been our biggest weakness.

 

[NYR Viper]

Low key, I could see a team like Colorado calling up Drury and asking about Zibanejad. They tried with Johansen, which didn't work out. They traded Byram, who I think they wanted to move on from in general and brought in Middlestedt who I think serves a purpose but I'm not sure that's the guy they want to be their 2c. He is also going to be owed ~$6m this off-season as a RFA. Mackinnon, Zibanejad, Colton down the middle for the next 3 years minimum for them, with Rantanen and Lehkonen on the wing and Nichuskin if he can ever stay sober...

Also, with Nichuskin an unknown and Drouin likely pricing himself out there is a spot on that PP. Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar, Zibanejad, ________

Would Colorado consider a Zibanejad for Middlestedt basis for a deal? Would Colorado?

I wonder if Landeskog and Zibanejad know eachother...

Yeah, unfortunately running the same team back again is the safest (job security wise) and the most straight forward moves for Drury to make this off season.

He pretty much ran the same team back from last year, just with new coaching staff. I could see him giving it one more attempt. Feel like after next season, when Laf, Igor and Miller are up from new contracts, maybe it forces his hand a bit more.

That said, he's been pretty good at identifying our weaknesses, just hasn't been great at fixing them, so I think there is a small chance he will attempt to move Trouba this offseason, given he's been our biggest weakness.

I think the deadline was very telling as to what Drury thought of the team. this was their last kick at the can. He nibbled at the fringes at the deadline and for that being the plan, he did an admirable job for very low cost.

I think changes are coming and Drury recognizes the core needs to change...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Low key, I could see a team like Colorado calling up Drury and asking about Zibanejad. They tried with Johansen, which didn't work out. They traded Byram, who I think they wanted to move on from in general and brought in Middlestedt who I think serves a purpose but I'm not sure that's the guy they want to be their 2c. He is also going to be owed ~$6m this off-season as a RFA. Mackinnon, Zibanejad, Colton down the middle for the next 3 years minimum for them, with Rantanen and Lehkonen on the wing and Nichuskin if he can ever stay sober...

Also, with Nichuskin an unknown and Drouin likely pricing himself out there is a spot on that PP. Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar, Zibanejad, ________

Would Colorado consider a Zibanejad for Middlestedt basis for a deal? Would Colorado?

I wonder if Landeskog and Zibanejad know eachother...



I think the deadline was very telling as to what Drury thought of the team. this was their last kick at the can. He nibbled at the fringes at the deadline and for that being the plan, he did an admirable job for very low cost.

I think changes are coming and Drury recognizes the core needs to change...

They 100% do. Drafted in the same year and they're both Swedes so there has to be some crossover in intl play but I'm not sure that really matters beyond Landeskog vouching for the guy (or nixing the idea.) Theres a good chance he doesn't play again (or if he does, doesn't play much longer.)

Would be a phenomenal spot for Mika and he would thrive there.

 

[UnparalledPark]

I think people overvalue picks. The odds of a 2nd and 3rd, collectively, becoming even a 100 game NHL player is not that high. Getting a 26 year old top-4 defenseman as a RFA is going to cost more than a 2nd + 3rd.

In terms of Trouba, look at the underlying numbers.

Lets make the comparison to a player who they just traded away in Ryan McDonagh who they lied and wanted to keep but asked to go back to TB. Both guys have 2 years left on their deals.

2022-2023
Trouba - Age 28
82 gp
21 p @ 5v5
0.9 p/60 @ 5v5
218 hits
196 blocks
0.9 CF% rel @ 5v5


McDonagh - Age 33
71 gp
16 p @ 5v5
0.8 p/60 @ 5v5
63 hits @ 5v5
165 blocks
-4.0 CF% rel @ 5v5


2023-2024
Trouba - Age 29
69 gp
16 p @ 5v5
0.8 p/60 @ 5v5
191 hits
183 blocks
-4.0 CF% rel @5v5


McDonagh - Age 33
74 gp
24 p @ 5v5
1.1 p/60 @ 5v5
38 hits
139 blocks
2.0 CF% rel @ 5v5


What are the odds that Trouba, at age 30, will revert back to his 22-23 numbers? If you look at his track record, it's pretty high.

Contracts:
McDonagh
$6.75m cap hit
$11.13m in total dollars owed

Trouba
$8m cap hit
$12.0m in total dollars owed


So we are talking about a player who has been a perennial top-4 RD, playing tough minutes as one of the most physical defensemen in the league for a while. He's going to be 30 years old to start the season and coming off what appears to be a somewhat injury riddled season. He was the captain of a team that just made the ECF and is known as a consummate leader.

Now we see what McDonagh just returned to Nashville, after requesting to be traded to 1 team. There was no bidding war there. The trade:
View attachment 879094

So a 2nd + 7th for McDonagh + 4th

If you're asking me, I'm expecting a 2nd + 2nd + 3rd for Trouba. Add in some salary of a player who they want to move, maybe it's Lauzon, maybe it's Glass, and the deal fits. Nashville was likely planning on having a veteran d-man with leadership qualities on their roster until MocDonagh asked out.

We can argue semantics and the return, maybe it's a 2nd + 3rd + 5th but I'm guessing it's going to be more.

Again, not all teams want to spend as many real dollars as the cap shows. Nashville is retooling so I would imagine they would be looking at real dollars in rather than cap hits right now. And the term fits their window AND it likely allows them to get him re-signed, should they want to, to a more team friendly deal once his deal is up as a veteran leader on the back-end.

Those are really great stats but one plays really good defense while the other not so much.

 

[Guyute]

Zegras+ for Zibanjead is an idea. I would imagine the appeal for Anaheim, even though they're rebuilding, is having an established Swede for Leo Carlsson. IDK if Mika would waive there, but he might. He has a young daughter that I'm sure would love Disneyland.

I was suggesting the same trade during the regular season when Mika wasn't playing well. Mika is definitely a better player now. However, looking at both players' 22yo and younger seasons, Zegras has scored at more consistent rate at 5v5.

The Ducks could use an established veteran Swede for Carlsson, one who has had success for a good team in the playoffs and kills penalties and isn't 100% offense-only like most of their lineup. Plus, Mika might actually consider waving his NMC for southern Cali.

It's the closest equivalent to the Brassard for Zibanejad trade from 8 years ago.

 

[NYR Viper]

They 100% do. Drafted in the same year and they're both Swedes so there has to be some crossover in intl play but I'm not sure that really matters beyond Landeskog vouching for the guy (or nixing the idea.) Theres a good chance he doesn't play again (or if he does, doesn't play much longer.)

Would be a phenomenal spot for Mika and he would thrive there.

Yeah I know he probably isn't playing any longer but I am sure he would vouch for him if they crossed paths.

I could see him doing very well there and he would slot appropriately and likely be utilized well. I wonder if there is a deal to be made there or if they are set with Middlestedt as their 2C long term

 

[zlev]

zibanejad to arizona for schmaltz and a 2nd

 

[NYR Viper]

Those are really great stats but one plays really good defense while the other not so much.

I mean, sure, McDonagh has been good in the past but her is 34.

This isn't to say who is slightly ahead of the other, but if you look at the stats and the players and then put yourself in the GM's position from a team looking to upgrade on defense without likely giving out 5-6 year deals, I could see this making sense

 

[Filip Chytil]

 

[Raspewtin]

sounds like what we feared. the rest of the league doesn't value him that highly.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Yeah, unfortunately running the same team back again is the safest (job security wise) and the most straight forward moves for Drury to make this off season.

He pretty much ran the same team back from last year, just with new coaching staff. I could see him giving it one more attempt. Feel like after next season, when Laf, Igor and Miller are up from new contracts, maybe it forces his hand a bit more.

That said, he's been pretty good at identifying our weaknesses, just hasn't been great at fixing them, so I think there is a small chance he will attempt to move Trouba this offseason, given he's been our biggest weakness.

I don't think so. There is significant risk if he runs back the same team and they go out in round 1.

It's obvious this team needs better defense to succeed. I have never felt Drury is someone who was going to sit idly by. He has more cap space this year and can generate even more with a dumping of Goodrow and buyout/trade of Trouba.

Running back last year's team made sense. The players clamored for more structure and discipline. He gave that to them and they showed that it made a positive difference. But not enough. Now they need to upgrade those areas where they fall short.

The Rangers have a lot of the right pieces in place. Panarin will still score 80+. Mika will be fine. Fox will be healthy and great. Igor will be Igor. Laf has blossomed into a budding superstar and with PP time will become a perennial all-star.

They need better defense. Period. You cannot win with garbage D. You cannot with with a Trouba and a Lindgren. You absolutely cannot win with both playing top 4 minutes.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be teams willing to take Trouba. Rangers would have to eat salary or take a contract back but you're telling me a team like Detroit wouldn't take him for two years? Nashville if the rangers took Luke Schenn? He's still a RHD who's not that old and is physical and kills penalties.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

There will definitely be teams interested in Trouba.

But it’s possible / probable that they are going to call the NYR bluff and wait for a buyout. Similar to Girardi or Shattekirk who had plenty of suitors for their services post buyout but no trade market.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be teams willing to take Trouba. Rangers would have to eat salary or take a contract back but you're telling me a team like Detroit wouldn't take him for two years? Nashville if the rangers took Luke Schenn? He's still a RHD who's not that old and is physical and kills penalties.

Yeah I'm here on this as well.

Marc Staal still had a job last year and Erik Gudbransson got a 4 year deal not too long ago. You're not ridding yourself of the entire cap hit with nothing coming back but someone is going to take a look at him and be like "Yup, we will take that." Especially with only a 2 year commitment as opposed to the 4,5,6 years that they'd be required to hand out to a UFA.

 

[haohmaru]

Break up day is today or tomorrow?

 

[Ail]

Hot take, Drury needs to start thinking about tomorrow, today. Trying to patchwork this current core and hope to Hank their way to more deep playoff runs ala Igor is a fool's errand. Laff is about to break out, Perrault is on the way along with a few other promising young players who could be great depth options or surprise top 6 contributors. IMO Drury should start moving out the grandpas and hemorrhoids of this core starting with Trouba and Mika this year and work towards bringing in younger players. Don't sign Lindgren, capitalize on Goodrow's playoff performance and move him. Move Kakko. Troch, Quick and Kreider are great veteran mentors for the youth. Let Panarin ride it out, even if he's not a playoff performer he helps you get there. With Igor, Fox, Panarin, Troch, Kreider and Laff firing on all cylinders this is still a playoff team. You don't need to win the league or the East.

Get younger, get faster, and start building around the YOUNG core of this team with more players from Hartford and shrewd offseason acquisitions. I think what Drury does this offseason could be pivotal in whether or not this team forces 2 more half-ass runs that end in disaster versus 5+ years of legitimate shots. I hope for all our sakes he does the right thing.

 

[rangers1314]

A few notes from 32T today:

• #1 priority is Igors next deal, everything else is secondary. NYR will be “fortunate” if its below 7x10. “Shocked” if its not the #1 goalie deal in the league.
• On Laf: Could see everyone agreeing to wait to discuss next deal. Gives everyone a chance to see what they really have.
• Says NYR can’t over react to this loss. 2 ECF in the last 3 years. This is a good team with good pieces. Fox was hurt. Wonders if KK experiment is over. Marek says Drury is “out” on KK.
• Big one is Trouba. He “terrifies” other players. Org and other players like having him on their side. It would really change the way other teams feel about NYR if he’s gone.
• What makes them better? Do they need to change depth? Changes on the margins.
• Org needs to ask Mika what they need to do to get him to the next level in the post season.
• Cant get rid of guys b/c they are mad at them for the last week.
• Othmann on the radar for next season.
• Wonders if NYR regret not going all in for Jake G.

 

[pld459666]

nowhere to DJ in Anaheim though

let's face it, we're stuck with him.

Anaheim is 45 minutes away from LA.

Tons of places to DJ and get his Vegan Grub-On

 

[LOFIN]

Low key, I could see a team like Colorado calling up Drury and asking about Zibanejad. They tried with Johansen, which didn't work out. They traded Byram, who I think they wanted to move on from in general and brought in Middlestedt who I think serves a purpose but I'm not sure that's the guy they want to be their 2c. He is also going to be owed ~$6m this off-season as a RFA. Mackinnon, Zibanejad, Colton down the middle for the next 3 years minimum for them, with Rantanen and Lehkonen on the wing and Nichuskin if he can ever stay sober...

Also, with Nichuskin an unknown and Drouin likely pricing himself out there is a spot on that PP. Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar, Zibanejad, ________

Would Colorado consider a Zibanejad for Middlestedt basis for a deal? Would Colorado?

Whatever Mittelstadt asks for, it's going to be less than what Zibanejad makes. Colorado is in a serious cap crunch, they are not going to add more expensive players when they can't even retain what they have now.

 

[DanielBrassard]

A few notes from 32T today:

• #1 priority is Igors next deal, everything else is secondary. NYR will be “fortunate” if its below 7x10. “Shocked” if its not the #1 goalie deal in the league.
• On Laf: Could see everyone agreeing to wait to discuss next deal. Gives everyone a chance to see what they really have.
• Says NYR can’t over react to this loss. 2 ECF in the last 3 years. This is a good team with good pieces. Fox was hurt. Wonders if KK experiment is over. Marek says Drury is “out” ok KK.
• Big one is Trouba. He “terrifies” other players. Org and other players like having him on their side. It would really change the way other teams feel about NYR if he’s gone.
• What makes them better? Do they need to change depth? Changes on the margins.
• Org needs to ask Mika what they need to do to get him to the next level in the post season.
• Can get rid of guys b/c they are mad at them for the last week.
• Othmann on the radar for next season.
• Wonders if NYR regret not going all in for Jake G.

I don't like much of this and no they don't need to change the depth they need to change the core. Going into another playoff run with Mika Zibanejad as your top center is a failing endeavor. Trouba part is hilarious.

If the rangers don't identify that they at the bare minimum need to revamp the defense then I will have lost all hope in the FO.

 

[Mike in Houston]

sounds like what we feared. the rest of the league doesn't value him that highly.

Not when you play like he did.

 

[Foxy]

I don't think so. There is significant risk if he runs back the same team and they go out in round 1.

It's obvious this team needs better defense to succeed. I have never felt Drury is someone who was going to sit idly by. He has more cap space this year and can generate even more with a dumping of Goodrow and buyout/trade of Trouba.

Running back last year's team made sense. The players clamored for more structure and discipline. He gave that to them and they showed that it made a positive difference. But not enough. Now they need to upgrade those areas where they fall short.

The Rangers have a lot of the right pieces in place. Panarin will still score 80+. Mika will be fine. Fox will be healthy and great. Igor will be Igor. Laf has blossomed into a budding superstar and with PP time will become a perennial all-star.

They need better defense. Period. You cannot win with garbage D. You cannot with with a Trouba and a Lindgren. You absolutely cannot win with both playing top 4 minutes.

Yeah, I think he sees it and knows Trouba is not good enough, just not sure if he'd will be willing to attach assets to get rid of him, or eat 4M in dead cap the next 2 years on a buyout.

The whole offseason will come down to what he does with Trouba. With him still on the team, there's not enough cap space to do much other than run it back.

I think the deadline was very telling as to what Drury thought of the team. this was their last kick at the can. He nibbled at the fringes at the deadline and for that being the plan, he did an admirable job for very low cost.

I think changes are coming and Drury recognizes the core needs to change...

I think a large part of our deadline was we had almost no cap space to make any big moves, without getting 3rd teams involved to eat cap for us and were running pretty low on draft capital outside the 1st.

 

[NYR Viper]

Yeah I'm here on this as well.

Marc Staal still had a job last year and Erik Gudbransson got a 4 year deal not too long ago. You're not ridding yourself of the entire cap hit with nothing coming back but someone is going to take a look at him and be like "Yup, we will take that." Especially with only a 2 year commitment as opposed to the 4,5,6 years that they'd be required to hand out to a UFA.

This is where I'm at. And I will keep making this point, not all teams in the NHL operate with the salary cap in mind. Quite a few teams look at real dollars first and foremost and not all NHL teams can attract the UFA's they want to without overpaying.

For example, say Nashville is looking for a veteran physical d-man. Their mode of operation last year was ROR, Nyquist and Schenn at 3 years, 2 years and 2 years each. Saros is a UFA following this upcoming season. They sold at the deadline but re-signed Novak and still made the playoffs.

I think Trotz is trying to build a foundation of the way he wants the team to play and compete for a playoff spot while rebuilding.