Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[Shesterkybomb]

Honestly, after a day of reflection on the season, I'm leaning more towards a retool than anything and I really have to see the injury list. I suspect Trouba was hurt, same with Zibanejad and maybe Kreider, we all know Fox was hurt. As the playoffs went on, I continued to believe we needed a stronger 3rd line that could chip in some goals when the big guns were being shut down and I also believed we needed another physical dman. I don't think Mika is going anywhere, nor do I think trouba or kreider are. We'll likely replace the Roslovic 's , Wennbergs, maybe Kakko, Gustafson etc and maybe if you add the proper pieces it's enough but those players need to have some grit to them, they need to be able to play anywhere in the lineup and they undoubtedly need to be cheaper.

 

[Mike in Houston]

I want to keep Goodrow. He's a 16 game player. Need more of those. We have too many 82 game players.

 

[NYR Viper]

Lindgren shouldn't be on anyone's first pair. If Lindgren was a 3rd pair guy, I don't think his name would be on anyone's lips. We absolutely shouldn't pay him.
Would be a miracle, but going into next year with Fox and Schneider as your only returning defensemen with Jones getting reps would be the dice roll I would be thrilled with. K'Andre has all the physical tools but maybe it's a mental thing he just can't get over. I am not sure what we would be missing other than minutes if he goes. If he manages to figure it out, he can be a *great* player for a few years, but I just can't see it.
Laf figured it out, maybe K'Andre can? Maybe the tolls of being a pro prevents that next step?

I agree with much of this. The issue I have with Lindgren is this:

He has been overdeployed on this team for a few years based on his perceived benefit to Fix, which we know isn't true. Because of this overdelpoyment his next contract will be inflated.

If he had been playing on the 3rd pairing and PK for this entire time, he would be looking at $2.5-3m per season. Because he has been playing on the 1st pairing and PK he's going to ask for $4m+. That's a contract I am just not interested in handing over

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Adding Guentzel would have obviously helped but I'm not sure that put this team over the top in that series. The problems run deeper all the way to the backend and breaking Florida's forecheck/making a good first pass. Their best/only legitimate puck movers were Adam Fox playing on one knee and Gustafsson. Trouba handles the puck like an idiot, Lindgren is not a puck mover, Miller is a better skater than passer out of the zone, and Schneider is okay but even he struggles under pressure with the puck. They could not handle the 2 forecheckers below the circles and the D's inability to move the puck out quickly and efficiently killed them all series long. I'm not sure how well Zac Jones would have held up against the physicality but his puck moving ability would have helped big time.

On Goodrow, really hoping his playoffs baits some team into taking on that contract even with retention. A buyout of Trouba and a Goodrow trade with 600K in retention gets 2 not very good players off the roster while freeing up $7 million.

Maybe not, but with how razor-thin this series was, Guentzel could have been the difference.

And there's no way I want to get rid of Goodrow. We need more players that show up in the playoffs, not less.

 

[NYR Viper]

I want to keep Goodrow. He's a 16 game player. Need more of those. We have too many 82 game players.

They could find 2-3 16 game players for this same cap hit...

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I want to keep Goodrow. He's a 16 game player. Need more of those. We have too many 82 game players.

In hindsight, I was thinking we should have threw him on with Kreider and put Zib on line 3 to spread things out.

Maybe not, but with how razor-thin this series was, Guentzel could have been the difference.

And there's no way I want to get rid of Goodrow. We need more players that show up in the playoffs, not less.

Guentzel imo would have had just as hard a time scoring vs Florida as Panarin did.

 

[Dfence033]

Alright here goes, based on AFP Projections:

View attachment 879051


Trouba to Nashville for Lauzon + 2nd '24 + 2nd '25 + 3rd '25
Lindgren to Utah for 2nd '24 + 2nd '25 + 3rd '25
Goodrow + Kakko to CHI to NYI 1st

Signings:
Roy - 5 years
Dillon - 2 years
Kylington - 1 year
Bertuzzi - 5 years

Trotz isn't stupid. No way Nashville gives up a fine, 26 year old D signed for $2M, plus three high picks for Trouba. Maybe Nashville would do Trouba with retention and a future 2nd for Lauzon. But Rangers aren't getting 3 picks and a decent D on a good contract for him, especially without retention. Predators have nearly $30M in cap space this season. They will be big game hunting, not picking up capdumps without some sweet incentives.

I could maybe see Lindgren getting a 2nd and a 3rd. But not 2 2nds and a 3rd.

I'm not sure I trade Kakko to a place to go explode next to a superstar C, either. Someone will bite on Goodrow without a Kakko sweetener, but it won't be for a 1st, and that's ok.

 

[pld459666]

A full year with Chytil. As far as we know Chytil may never be what he was or could have been. This is a huge question mark for next season. The guy was out most of the year and still has struggles. Depending on him in a FT role next season would be a huge mistake and risky. If he isn't now he is one big hit from retirement. Anyone who thinks Drury can depend on him next season to fill a big role is delusional. If he somehow does come back it would be a big time upside but at this point the odds are not trending that way.

I'm not putting any stock in the playoffs for what we can or can not expect from Chytil going forward.

Until such time that the concussions completely derail his career, the 45+ point center is who I expect to suit up next year.

Didn't look like he was avoiding contact, IMHO it looked more like his timing was off due to no real action for 6 months.

Hes the teams 2nd/3rd line center to start 24-25.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I want to keep Goodrow. He's a 16 game player. Need more of those. We have too many 82 game players.

Crazy, I completely changed my tune on Goody after the post season. When the regular season ended I was sure he should be a goner. He proved his value this post season, no doubt about it. We need more guys with that level of commitment and compete, not less.

 

[SA16]

Goodrow put up good results with bad play in in the playoffs. If someone will take that contract you take it and run.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

Alright here goes, based on AFP Projections:

View attachment 879051


Trouba to Nashville for Lauzon + 2nd '24 + 2nd '25 + 3rd '25
Lindgren to Utah for 2nd '24 + 2nd '25 + 3rd '25
Goodrow + Kakko to CHI to NYI 1st

Signings:
Roy - 5 years
Dillon - 2 years
Kylington - 1 year
Bertuzzi - 5 years

Sign me the f*** up

 

[Ruggs225]

If tkachuck is an actual option. I wonder if we could make a trade with them with Miller being the centerpiece of the return.

About the same age.. going to get a pay upgrade. Has “potential” and helps them on d.

 

[Bruner4329]

They could find 2-3 16 game players for this same cap hit...

Ok then name them? If you going to speak with this type of conviction then back it up.

 

[NYR Viper]

Trotz isn't stupid. No way Nashville gives up a fine, 26 year old D signed for $2M, plus three high picks for Trouba. Maybe Nashville would do Trouba with retention and a future 2nd for Lauzon. But Rangers aren't getting 3 picks and a decent D on a good contract for him, especially without retention. Predators have nearly $30M in cap space this season. They will be big game hunting, not picking up capdumps without some sweet incentives.

I could maybe see Lindgren getting a 2nd and a 3rd. But not 2 2nds and a 3rd.

I'm not sure I trade Kakko to a place to go explode next to a superstar C, either. Someone will bite on Goodrow without a Kakko sweetener, but it won't be for a 1st, and that's ok.

I think people overvalue picks. The odds of a 2nd and 3rd, collectively, becoming even a 100 game NHL player is not that high. Getting a 26 year old top-4 defenseman as a RFA is going to cost more than a 2nd + 3rd.

In terms of Trouba, look at the underlying numbers.

Lets make the comparison to a player who they just traded away in Ryan McDonagh who they lied and wanted to keep but asked to go back to TB. Both guys have 2 years left on their deals.

2022-2023
Trouba - Age 28
82 gp
21 p @ 5v5
0.9 p/60 @ 5v5
218 hits
196 blocks
0.9 CF% rel @ 5v5


McDonagh - Age 33
71 gp
16 p @ 5v5
0.8 p/60 @ 5v5
63 hits @ 5v5
165 blocks
-4.0 CF% rel @ 5v5


2023-2024
Trouba - Age 29
69 gp
16 p @ 5v5
0.8 p/60 @ 5v5
191 hits
183 blocks
-4.0 CF% rel @5v5


McDonagh - Age 33
74 gp
24 p @ 5v5
1.1 p/60 @ 5v5
38 hits
139 blocks
2.0 CF% rel @ 5v5


What are the odds that Trouba, at age 30, will revert back to his 22-23 numbers? If you look at his track record, it's pretty high.

Contracts:
McDonagh
$6.75m cap hit
$11.13m in total dollars owed

Trouba
$8m cap hit
$12.0m in total dollars owed


So we are talking about a player who has been a perennial top-4 RD, playing tough minutes as one of the most physical defensemen in the league for a while. He's going to be 30 years old to start the season and coming off what appears to be a somewhat injury riddled season. He was the captain of a team that just made the ECF and is known as a consummate leader.

Now we see what McDonagh just returned to Nashville, after requesting to be traded to 1 team. There was no bidding war there. The trade:

So a 2nd + 7th for McDonagh + 4th

If you're asking me, I'm expecting a 2nd + 2nd + 3rd for Trouba. Add in some salary of a player who they want to move, maybe it's Lauzon, maybe it's Glass, and the deal fits. Nashville was likely planning on having a veteran d-man with leadership qualities on their roster until MocDonagh asked out.

We can argue semantics and the return, maybe it's a 2nd + 3rd + 5th but I'm guessing it's going to be more.

Again, not all teams want to spend as many real dollars as the cap shows. Nashville is retooling so I would imagine they would be looking at real dollars in rather than cap hits right now. And the term fits their window AND it likely allows them to get him re-signed, should they want to, to a more team friendly deal once his deal is up as a veteran leader on the back-end.

 

[McRanger92]

This was a lost season for Chytil but i think it showed character that he worked so hard to get back this season. He was multiple steps behind in the playoffs, especially against Florida but i thought he didnt shy away from contact as much as he has in years past. Maybe that was just me. But I think Laviolette should go back to the Panarin-Chytil-Laf line that looked so good before his injury last year.

Panarin-Chytil-Laf
Kreider-Trocheck-TBD
Cuylle-Mika-TBD

 

[NYR Viper]

Ok then name them? If you going to speak with this type of conviction then back it up.

All of these numbers are per AFP projections. I could build a good 4th line for the same cap hit...

Barclay Goodrow:
$3.642m

Brandon Duhaime
3 years @ $1.82m

Adam Edstrom
$0.846m

Teddy Blueger
2 years $ 2.17m

Alexander Barabanov
1 year @ $1.2m

Aube-Kubel
2 years @ $1.375m

Max Pacioretty
1 year @ $1.45m

Nick Cousins
1 year @ $1.2m

Craig Smith
1 year @ $1.1m

Just to expound on this, here are some scenarios I would be totally fine with:

Edstrom-Brodzinski-Smith (~2.8m total)

Edstrom-Blueger-Smith (~$4.1m total)

Edstrom-Blueger-Aube-Kubel (~$4.2m total)

Edstrom-Brodzinski-Duhaime (~$3.5m total)

Edstrom-Brodzinski-Barabanov (~$2.9m total)

 

[Guyute]

Do we have any idea when breakup day interviews will take place? I haven't seen any of our beat reporters mention when this will happen.

 

[Synergy27]

I'm equally baffled and humored to the negative reaction NYR twitter has had (not unanimously, but more so than I would have expected) to the idea of trading Lindgren.

It's taken a while but the general perception on Trouba has come around to what it basically is here. But no the guy whose worse and bleeds is a must keep because he plays hard.

Guess some people just haven't learned from Girardi and Staal.

Lindgren is fine if he is paid and played as a third pairing guy. The only problem with Lindgren is his usage assuming he is willing to sign for reasonable money.

Trouba is paid as a 1D and should be in the AHL.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

This quote from Gallant aged well

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Boone Jenner. I know he doesn’t want to go. But he’s got one year left on his deal and CBJ is going to be very bad again.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Lindgren is fine if he is paid and played as a third pairing guy. The only problem with Lindgren is his usage assuming he is willing to sign for reasonable money.

Trouba is paid as a 1D and should be in the AHL.

I get that playing on a 3rd pair would drop his QoC significantly but it also removes the saftey net that he's had for most of his career. His numbers away from Fox have always been bad and this year were really, really, really bad. I understand that situations play into this but they're horrid even taking that into consideration. The drop off in his game this year is beyond alarming and well beyond just an "off year."

Plus short of him being non tendered a QO and agreeing to sign at a lower rate (which would be the stupidest thing for him to do), theres no way to get him at reasonable money for a 3rd pair D.

Trouba sucks, but Lindgren was objectively worse this year and would be a bigger problem if he's kept around. If theres an avenue to move Trouba I hope they take it but beyond the money, its 2 years vs how ever long Lindgren would be extended (it would be 4+ IMO) and at that point the money almost becomes irrelevant because you're carrying another player who you can't hide for a longer period of time.

Tl;dr: Ryan Lindgren and Jacob Trouba both suck and should be moved this offseason.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Zegras+ for Zibanjead is an idea. I would imagine the appeal for Anaheim, even though they're rebuilding, is having an established Swede for Leo Carlsson. IDK if Mika would waive there, but he might. He has a young daughter that I'm sure would love Disneyland.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I get that playing on a 3rd pair would drop his QoC significantly but it also removes the saftey net that he's had for most of his career. His numbers away from Fox have always been bad and this year were really, really, really bad. I understand that situations play into this but they're horrid even taking that into consideration. The drop off in his game this year is beyond alarming and well beyond just an "off year."

Plus short of him being non tendered a QO and agreeing to sign at a lower rate (which would be the stupidest thing for him to do), theres no way to get him at reasonable money for a 3rd pair D.

Trouba sucks, but Lindgren was objectively worse this year and would be a bigger problem if he's kept around. If theres an avenue to move Trouba I hope they take it but beyond the money, its 2 years vs how ever long Lindgren would be extended (it would be 4+ IMO) and at that point the money almost becomes irrelevant because you're carrying another player who you can't hide for a longer period of time.

Tl;dr: Ryan Lindgren and Jacob Trouba both suck and should be moved this offseason.

Totally agree.

The worst part is there were some very light rumors that Chychrun was available at the deadline. Lindgren has been an issue for years now. I really don't understand how any person who watches hockey believes he should be on the first pair. He's miles worse than Kevin Klein who was our 3rd pairing defender when we went to the finals.

Lindgren is probably best suited for Hartford or as a 7th D. Imagine if Drury had offered a very strong package for Chych at the deadline and we upgraded Lindgren to Chych with Lindy acting as the 7th (or maybe getting moved in the package)? Do we perform better with that? Potentially make the cup if we stay healthy? I think it's possible.

For years now, dating back to Quinn, the Rangers have done some freak shit in prioritizing friendships on the team and personal feelings above winning. Lindy with Fox, Kreider with Mika, despite all evidence pointing to these pairs being dog shit for full seasons now. It's absolutely wild that we lit what may be our best chance at a cup in decades on fire to keep friends together. This isn't f***ing peewee.

 

[NYR Viper]

Ok then name them? If you going to speak with this type of conviction then back it up.

I should also state that this same exact conversation could be had with Trouba. His cap hit could conceivably fill an entire 2nd pairing. Dillon-Roy would be a good 2nd pairing and they would make ~$8m

 

[zlev]

Zegras+ for Zibanjead is an idea. I would imagine the appeal for Anaheim, even though they're rebuilding, is having an established Swede for Leo Carlsson. IDK if Mika would waive there, but he might. He has a young daughter that I'm sure would love Disneyland.

nowhere to DJ in Anaheim though

let's face it, we're stuck with him.