Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[LOFIN]

I get that we are in our feels because we didnt win the Cup and we're somehow entitled to it, but as much as we want to kill Panarin he had the best season in Ranger history. Mika in his worst season as a Ranger still outscored that Kakko/Chytil/Lindgren group by 30 points lol. Our core is not surrounded by a good enough supporting cast. And we still won the President's trophy in a so-so year for Igor(our crutch)

Barkov was a "losing player" like Mika until the Panthers surrounded him with actual talent(Bennett/Verheage/Reinhart/Tkachuk). Everyone's a loser until one day they arent.

Well that's obviously a different discussion altogether. Whether or not Mika and Panarin can get their shit together and carry this team remains to be seen. Not like you can really trade those contracts for better players anyway. But you absolutely do need them to be your best players, and doesn't matter f*** all what we do with the bottom-6, unless those guys pull their weight. Unless we are expecting Chytil and Kakko to suddenly become PPG players. There are no options to improve on their play at their current price tags. There's a reason Kakko is only going to make 2.4mil, that's basically 4th liner money.

This is the cap league, and you can't expect to win if your best players are not producing. Like I said earlier, you can afford one or two bad deals but then you would really need multiple steals as well.

For years we have gifted kakko a top 6 right wing spot only to watch him blow it and be forced to buy at the deadline. He’s had so many chances. Last year was it. We’re going to sign Kane for a couple seasons is my guess

Again, different discussion. At this point, Chytil and Kakko are your 3rd line wingers. I don't mind the idea of improving on any position, but if someone is suggesting that there are 3rd line players available for the same cap hit as those players that will actually produce significantly more, well I certainly disagree on that.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

if he's signed, he's gonna play with fox. and if he plays with fox we are not winning a cup.

I don’t disagree, it’s just what I think will happen

 

[McRanger92]

Well that's obviously a different discussion altogether. Whether or not Mika and Panarin can get their shit together and carry this team remains to be seen. Not like you can really trade those contracts for better players anyway. But you absolutely do need them to be your best players, and doesn't matter f*** all what we do with the bottom-6, unless those guys pull their weight. Unless we are expecting Chytil and Kakko to suddenly become PPG players. There are no options to improve on their play at their current price tags. There's a reason Kakko is only going to make 2.4mil, that's basically 4th liner money.

This is the cap league, and you can't expect to win if your best players are not producing. Like I said earlier, you can afford one or two bad deals but then you would really need multiple steals as well.

Again, different discussion. At this point, Chytil and Kakko are your 3rd line wingers. I don't mind the idea of improving on any position, but if someone is suggesting that there are 3rd line players available for the same cap hit as those players that will actually produce significantly more, well I certainly disagree on that.

Not for nothing but Panarin and Mika scored at a PPG pace in the playoffs. I don't think their overall play was very good but I feel like the goalposts move for these guys every year, it will obviously never be enough until they win the Cup, which I accept.

I also dont think this is the time to lose faith in the core. We have a really good team, they need to augment their top guys. Can we play Mika on a line with 2 top players? Can we have a 3rd line that scores more than 3 goals in 16 games? Can we play our Norris winning defenseman with a guy capable of playing top pair minutes? These are easily correctable problems if the team has loyalty to the guys who actually win us games, instead of the guys who we want to amount to something. The window is wide open now, but some would let it pass waiting for Chytil/Kakko to happen.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Barkov was a "losing player" like Mika until the Panthers surrounded him with actual talent(Bennett/Verheage/Reinhart/Tkachuk). Everyone's a loser until one day they arent.

This I agree with. Well said

 

[surlysailor]

I’m probably way off but I feel like we’re gonna get a trade with the kings. They have a lot kids who will need waivers next season. I could see something like kk & 30 for 21 & one of Thomas/kaliyev/turcotte/madden/fagemo.
They get a legit bottom 6 on a fair deal stay in the first for nyr moving up and adding a kid who might get claimed for nothing next season.

 

[McRanger92]

I’m probably way off but I feel like we’re gonna get a trade with the kings. They have a lot kids who will need waivers next season. I could see something like kk & 30 for 21 & one of Thomas/kaliyev/turcotte/madden/fagemo.
They get a legit bottom 6 on a fair deal stay in the first for nyr moving up and adding a kid who might get claimed for nothing next season.

Lias Andersson trade 2.0

 

[LOFIN]

Not for nothing but Panarin and Mika scored at a PPG pace in the playoffs. I don't think their overall play was very good but I feel like the goalposts move for these guys every year, it will obviously never be enough until they win the Cup, which I accept.

I also dont think this is the time to lose faith in the core. We have a really good team, they need to augment their top guys. Can we play Mika on a line with 2 top players? Can we have a 3rd line that scores more than 3 goals in 16 games? Can we play our Norris winning defenseman with a guy capable of playing top pair minutes? These are easily correctable problems if the team has loyalty to the guys who actually win us games, instead of the guys who we want to amount to something. The window is wide open now, but some would let it pass waiting for Chytil/Kakko to happen.

I don't disagree with this one bit. And if moving on from Chytil/Kakko is a way of improving the team now, you do it. I'm not sure you really improve by trading either of those players helps though, there are ways to improve this roster without trading them while hoping (yet again) that they properly break out and help this team to win. I guess I kinda misread your tone on the earlier message. For me, Mika and Panarin have not been good enough, but there is really nothing you can do about it except hope it works out and maybe shuffle the lines to hope to get more out of them, especially Mika 5v5.

Fixing the defence is the #1 priority. Adding a top-6 winger would be second, though my first option would be to actually shuffle the lines in a way where you would try to get more out of Mika and Kreider separately. The problem is that while there is plenty of capspace for next season, 25-26 could be tricky before Panarin comes off the books. Unless we manage to get rid of Trouba entirely. Still, there is plenty of work with the D-corps to be done...

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Team needs to identify their version of the Reinhart deal. Florida gave up nothing comparatively to the value of Reinhart for multiple seasons

 

[McRanger92]

I don't disagree with this one bit. And if moving on from Chytil/Kakko is a way of improving the team now, you do it. I'm not sure you really improve by trading either of those players helps though, there are ways to improve this roster without trading them while hoping (yet again) that they properly break out and help this team to win. I guess I kinda misread your tone on the earlier message. For me, Mika and Panarin have not been good enough, but there is really nothing you can do about it except hope it works out and maybe shuffle the lines to hope to get more out of them, especially Mika 5v5.

Fixing the defence is the #1 priority. Adding a top-6 winger would be second, though my first option would be to actually shuffle the lines in a way where you would try to get more out of Mika and Kreider separately. The problem is that while there is plenty of capspace for next season, 25-26 could be tricky before Panarin comes off the books. Unless we manage to get rid of Trouba entirely. Still, there is plenty of work with the D-corps to be done...

Im far more concerned about the defense. I think the forward group is actually pretty solid. I dot think Kane is going to be the guy at the other top 6 RW spot. He showed he can still play last year and we need a skilled passer and chance creator in the top 6. Probably the most cost efficient option too.

Panarin-Mika-Laf
Kreider-trocheck-Kane

There's enough in the bottom 6 to create an effective one, but Id like to see Drury turn Chytil and/or Kakko's money into a veteran or 2 who play a more Panthers-like style. I like Colton a lot.

Idk how the defense improves without moving Lindgren or Trouba. It's clear Lindgren is not suited for his role so they need to tread lightly with his contract. An aggressive move for Chychrun or Theodore (or another D-man im not thinking of) would be my play. As long as you add a difference maker on D, I guess you could run it back with the same 5 other guys.

Miller-Fox
Chychrun-Schneider
Lindgren-Trouba

 

[rangers1314]

Good news, EF says Libor Is looking to make his big comeback to the NHL

 

[LOFIN]

Im far more concerned about the defense. I think the forward group is actually pretty solid. I dot think Kane is going to be the guy at the other top 6 RW spot. He showed he can still play last year and we need a skilled passer and chance creator in the top 6. Probably the most cost efficient option too.

Jeff Skinner would probably be the 2nd, cheapish option for a skilled top-6 winger. If Buffalo ends up buying him out.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Kane at least makes some sense on paper with Kreider and Zibanejad. Much more so than other names like Toffoli.

Do I detest the starting assumption that Kreider and Zibanejad need to be stapled at the hip? I do. But if you accept that as a starting point it at least makes sense.

 

[McRanger92]

Jeff Skinner would probably be the 2nd, cheapish option for a skilled top-6 winger. If Buffalo ends up buying him out.

Ehhhh i not a big Skinner fan. All offense guy who has never even played a playoff game. I wouldnt want to add a guy like that just to wilt like our other big guys have. At leas Kane has shown he can stand and deliver in a big moment. He also wants to be here.

 

[LOFIN]

Ehhhh i not a big Skinner fan. All offense guy who has never even played a playoff game. I wouldnt want to add a guy like that just to wilt like our other big guys have. At leas Kane has shown he can stand and deliver in a big moment. He also wants to be here.

I agree, not really a fan of the style Skinner plays. But he could come in cheap and he has still been productive enough. If you sign him to a 1 year show me deal at like 4.5mil, that could be a pretty good investment.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The thing that concerns me is we’ve heard nothing about what may happen with Lindgren. He’s my top issue on defense right now

Constantly injured, belongs on the 3rd pair, and about to be paid above a 3rd pairing guy. Recipe for disaster

 

[NickyFotiu]

Kane at least makes some sense on paper with Kreider and Zibanejad. Much more so than other names like Toffoli.

Do I detest the starting assumption that Kreider and Zibanejad need to be stapled at the hip? I do. But if you accept that as a starting point it at least makes sense.

I was not happy with Mika-CK vs Florida but its been a while since they had a real RW that could set up plays. They aren't stapled together but we only have so many top 6 LW and Center combinations and they have been better together than separate most seasons.

 

[Vitto79]

The thing that concerns me is we’ve heard nothing about what may happen with Lindgren. He’s my top issue on defense right now

Constantly injured, belongs on the 3rd pair, and about to be paid above a 3rd pairing guy. Recipe for disaster

Problem is who’s replacing him ?

 

[Atax]

Problem is who’s replacing him ?

Anyone good at hockey.

 

[Machinehead]

Anyone good at hockey.

Seriously tho. Being Adam Fox's partner has to be the easiest job in hockey and we found just about the one guy that can't do it.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Problem is who’s replacing him ?

literally anyone lol

Replacing him can’t be an excuse

 

[GENESISPuck94]

I'd move on from Lindgren and sign Skjei.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

I get that we are in our feels because we didnt win the Cup and we're somehow entitled to it, but as much as we want to kill Panarin he had the best season in Ranger history. Mika in his worst season as a Ranger still outscored that Kakko/Chytil/Lindgren group by 30 points lol. Our core is not surrounded by a good enough supporting cast. And we still won the President's trophy in a so-so year for Igor(our crutch)

Barkov was a "losing player" like Mika until the Panthers surrounded him with actual talent(Bennett/Verheage/Reinhart/Tkachuk). Everyone's a loser until one day they arent.

It's going to be hard to do with limited cap space.

The Panthers also traded a 100+ pt forward (their best player at the time) and their best defenseman at the time for Tkachuck.

Does Drury have the guts to make a move like that? Because there's no other way they're going to fit a Reinhart, Verheage, Bennett without moving out a massive cap hit to make space.

We all want that guy to be Trouba. But with a NMC it's not happening. They can't pull a Goodrow with Trouba.

Unless the Rangers are willing to do something drastic, nothing is going to change except making current roster players have larger cap hits, including the goaltender. Where's the cap space coming from to fit the kind of players you're asking for while also making your goaltender the highest paid goaltender in league history.

But I also agree with you. There's hard decisions to make. And I've been hard on Mika. But to be fair to Mika and Kreids, they haven't had a stable RW. Can't do everything 2 vs 5.

 

[bernmeister]

To me, the single most important attribute a DMan needs to have is the ability to quickly and accurately move the puck out to a teammate while under pressure. They can have average skating, they can be not very physical, but at least a modicum of puck-moving ability is a 100% necessity. Having 1 guy who can't in your Top 6 is a serious problem. Having multiple is a disaster. We had multiple. That needs to change or we'll continue to have no shot at winning a Cup.

bold is not wrong
BUT
being able to sufficiently clear the crease is another side of that coin
shoot for all unicorns who do everything, but then realistically, the best you can

You know who never stops producing? Patrick Kane. I’ll take him he’s healthy and he looked great last year.

We didn’t lose because of “grit”. Nonsense.

We lost because we stopped scoring, mainly our powerplay which never stopped all year stopped scoring, and our Norris dman was on one leg.

1. No Kane UNLESS per my suggestion we first deal bread to FL
AND he is willing to do 1 yr 1m. period as a stopgap.
otherwise no.
like peace, give Berard a chance

2. grit
as I have said many times, proven adage, all sports:
usually, the good big man beats the good little man

While we did not field smurfs vs Cats, w/few exceptions, they were effectively bigger vs us by being tougher
We needed to combat that w/mo tuffness, but stupidly did not play Rempe
It would help if we upgraded more of the roster so we dominate, are not dominated.

3. Scoring
We did not score b'c we were dominated/smothered.
In this instance cause and effect

It only really opens up $1.4m cause trading Kakko for futures also opens up a roster spot that has to be filled by someone making ~$1m. At best you get a rookie in there at 800k.

While not untouchable, selling low on KK = MAKES NO SENSE.
not only to $$/cap hit, but also production
Agree

If they want to run it back with Mika/Kreider/Panarin, they need to shed not just Lindgren but Trouba has to go too. They need his money to afford some further upgrades.

Agree move both Lindy + Trouba
but also bread

my solution here is
deal Lindy + Trouba + bread etc for picks/+
BE HAPPY W/PICKS IF HIGH ENUF = BANKABLE COLLATERAL and also cap relief

Then
Shesty + Zib + 2025 1st
for
Nylander + Knies + Lilj + 2024 _ 2026 1sts

this gives us Kreider - Knies - Nylander = 1st line
also boosts our RD
adds picks

Trading Kakko makes little sense. It makes even less sense to package him and a first to move up in a shitty draft.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!
STOP THE PRESSESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
for once you and I fully agree!!

Well, the average goalie gave up a game losing softie and the elite high paid goalie is likely the Conn Smythe winner….

Edit: didn’t take long for that to age badly. Hahaha. But Bob was likely the runner up.

Bob is still elite but mid 30s he aged as this series went longer
Shesty is better, prime, crazy cheaper upcoming final yr of his current deal

You just need to find the next Forsling, Verhaeghe, Montour, and Reinhart before the blow up as players. Look at their cap hits and their value.

I'm not saying you cannot pay Igor, but it makes things tougher. Even 11M instead of 12-12.5 is massive.

Anything about what this team needs vanishes if what they have isn't adjusted. Overhauled defense is the main thing. I just hope Drury sees that same vision.

Don't give Shesty away, but be fearless to shake things up SENSIBLY to upgrade, gamble w/Garand

If we did my deals, add Mikkola + Lilj replacing Lindy, Trouba
develop Scanlin, Fortesc, and even Robertson

Couldn't disagree more but whatever I guess. If we are looking at our bottom-6 guys when our top guys do f*** all, why don't we just get rid of our top players and pay Igor whatever the f*** he wants? No point in paying Panarin and Zibanejad 20 million combined if we are not going to hold them accountable when it really counts.

Some guys -- Kreider, Tro -- not the prob
some are in 'pass for now' territory for various reasons
some biggies, makes sense to repurpose their value
no sacred cows

For years we have gifted kakko a top 6 right wing spot only to watch him blow it and be forced to buy at the deadline. He’s had so many chances. Last year was it. We’re going to sign Kane for a couple seasons is my guess

no, he did not blow it
he was not given correct support
you are unfairly asking him to have instant chemistry w/anybody
some can do that
some can w/repetition = familiarity = chemistry

he proved chem w/kid line
they moved LaF
Chytil got hurt
shows chem w/Cuylle
need to do C-C-KK for now
DO NOT BE STUPID AND SELL KK CHEAP ESP IF WE MOVE BREAD

Not for nothing but Panarin and Mika scored at a PPG pace in the playoffs. I don't think their overall play was very good but I feel like the goalposts move for these guys every year, it will obviously never be enough until they win the Cup, which I accept.

I also dont think this is the time to lose faith in the core. We have a really good team, they need to augment their top guys. Can we play Mika on a line with 2 top players? Can we have a 3rd line that scores more than 3 goals in 16 games? Can we play our Norris winning defenseman with a guy capable of playing top pair minutes? These are easily correctable problems if the team has loyalty to the guys who actually win us games, instead of the guys who we want to amount to something. The window is wide open now, but some would let it pass waiting for Chytil/Kakko to happen.

bold was entire POs?
So it is skewed, doesn't reflect abysmal ineptitude of Fs vs FL, compounded by overworked D

I’m probably way off but I feel like we’re gonna get a trade with the kings. They have a lot kids who will need waivers next season. I could see something like kk & 30 for 21 & one of Thomas/kaliyev/turcotte/madden/fagemo.
They get a legit bottom 6 on a fair deal stay in the first for nyr moving up and adding a kid who might get claimed for nothing next season.

will show an open mind to specif prop, but am guessing no, avoid
those guys all are available for a reason
whether or not our flawed guys for theirs makes sense requires specif
and certainly don't want to give our better guys for their flawed ones

The only guy I wanted past 2+ yrs from them is Byfield,
as I correctly saw him developing.
As long as there was pld bust on payroll + roster, there was hope of something there but not anymore.

Team needs to identify their version of the Reinhart deal. Florida gave up nothing comparatively to the value of Reinhart for multiple seasons

Great if opportunity for swindle emerges, but more practical to go like bern, do profitable deals as opportunity presents, whether they are small or large

Good news, EF says Libor Is looking to make his big comeback to the NHL

Libor played like an all star for 4 games before damaging, of all things, his shoulder -- which you think they could have repaired him to form
but sadly no
wish him well
would give TO and maybe small 2 way contract if he shows enuf

 

[McRanger92]

Vince giving some credence to Trouba getting moved in his latest article. Mentions Nashville and Utah. Its something at least

 

[bernmeister]

I'd move on from Lindgren and sign Skjei.

move on yes
Skjei ONLY makes sense IF
- in return for being overpaid and no trade protection
- he does 1 yr as a stopgap for us

no interest in long term deal $$$$$$$