well we got him for free, so if we get something back, it is fine. But we also have lot's of excuses like rookie coach, rebuilding team, new system, etc. There will never be buyers lined up for players like that, it is GM's job to look for a buyer, waiting several years would be very counter productive for the rebuild.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part X — Active Roster in OP (09/28)
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well we got him for free, so if we get something back, it is fine. But we also have lot's of excuses like rookie coach, rebuilding team, new system, etc. There will never be buyers lined up for players like that, it is GM's job to look for a buyer, waiting several years would be very counter productive for the rebuild.
On Pionk, this is why you must have depth.
We are in a very very tough situation as a team in terms of getting results on the ice. A lot of new parts on the team. A new coach. Weaknesses on the roster. All teams know the importance of getting of to a good start. We saw Geo suffer from it the day before yesterday.
Neal Pionk has also struggled. Ds on our team are really exposed right now. All over the league 5-6 goals are scored, its not easy to stay confident and balanced as a young D in those situations. I think Pionk obviously isn't as confident right now as he has been at times previously. My experience is definitely that if you keep pushing a kid under these circumstances its a gamble that should be avoided. We don't know how the coming 5 games will look. Could lose 10-3. You don't want a kid to start to doubt himself by putting forth bad performances after another. Pionk should sit and ADA should play IMO.
I am less worried about someone like Shatty, even if he also have struggled. Often its interpreted as vet-bias if the kid is yanked and the vet is given new chances, but I think there normally is a good reason for it.
We are in a very very tough situation as a team in terms of getting results on the ice. A lot of new parts on the team. A new coach. Weaknesses on the roster. All teams know the importance of getting of to a good start. We saw Geo suffer from it the day before yesterday.
Neal Pionk has also struggled. Ds on our team are really exposed right now. All over the league 5-6 goals are scored, its not easy to stay confident and balanced as a young D in those situations. I think Pionk obviously isn't as confident right now as he has been at times previously. My experience is definitely that if you keep pushing a kid under these circumstances its a gamble that should be avoided. We don't know how the coming 5 games will look. Could lose 10-3. You don't want a kid to start to doubt himself by putting forth bad performances after another. Pionk should sit and ADA should play IMO.
I am less worried about someone like Shatty, even if he also have struggled. Often its interpreted as vet-bias if the kid is yanked and the vet is given new chances, but I think there normally is a good reason for it.
Teams were lining up for Nash. Boston wasn't the only team interested in him. Nash hasn't been good for a while. He had his moments but his best days are long gone. Even this summer there were teams wiling to give 3 years/$15M-$16M as a free agent before he decided to take some time off to think about his future. The guy suffered his 3rd or 4th concussion since the 2013 season when he joined the Bruins and teams were still offering him 3 years.
Some of the teams are run by dumb people.
NYR Viper
Registered User
I think the prime time to try and trade the likes of Smith, Staal and Shattenkirk is this off-season. All of those guys will have two years left:
Smith
$4.35m cap hit
10 team no trade list
$4.525m actual cost
$3.35m actual cost
$3.9375m actual cost per season
Staal
$5.7m cap hit
NMC
$5m actual cost
$4.2m actual cost
$4.6m actual cost per season
Shattenkirk
$6.65m cap hit
10 team no trade list
$6.6m actual cost
$4m actual cost
$5.3 actual cost per season
I think if I was Gorton, I would probably try and force feed minutes to those three guys trying to build their value this season. The team isn't going to be contending this year. Give the young kids like Lindgren and Hajek a year in the AHL. Move them either at this deadline if someone offers something or over the off-season.
Smith
$4.35m cap hit
10 team no trade list
$4.525m actual cost
$3.35m actual cost
$3.9375m actual cost per season
Staal
$5.7m cap hit
NMC
$5m actual cost
$4.2m actual cost
$4.6m actual cost per season
Shattenkirk
$6.65m cap hit
10 team no trade list
$6.6m actual cost
$4m actual cost
$5.3 actual cost per season
I think if I was Gorton, I would probably try and force feed minutes to those three guys trying to build their value this season. The team isn't going to be contending this year. Give the young kids like Lindgren and Hajek a year in the AHL. Move them either at this deadline if someone offers something or over the off-season.
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Hearing stuff that the Islanders could be interested in Zucc, Trotz has always been a fan of his. I think Zucc would consider a long term deal with them, he remains in the NY area and he can continue to live in his Manhattan condo.
But what would the Rangers want in return?
But what would the Rangers want in return?
sure, but it doesn't mean Gorton shouldn't be trying to move them during the season.
I was against a full blown rebuild but via In season trades, deadline, expiring contracts, off season, buy outs - I’m becoming convinced that we should move on from:
Shatty, Staal, McQ - Smith becomes D vet « leader »
Zuc, Hayes, Spooner, Names, Vesey, Holland, McLeod, Nieves -Kreider becomes vet F « leader »
Give Hank option to go to a contender
Play the kids, stock pile talent, Space to offer sheet or sign young players
KZB
Asset back Chytil Kratsov
Andersson Howden Fast
Lettieri + 3 asset back, prospect, vet
Skjei Offer sheet, FA, asset back
Hajek ADA
Smith/Lindgren/Pionk/Rykov
Shatty, Staal, McQ - Smith becomes D vet « leader »
Zuc, Hayes, Spooner, Names, Vesey, Holland, McLeod, Nieves -Kreider becomes vet F « leader »
Give Hank option to go to a contender
Play the kids, stock pile talent, Space to offer sheet or sign young players
KZB
Asset back Chytil Kratsov
Andersson Howden Fast
Lettieri + 3 asset back, prospect, vet
Skjei Offer sheet, FA, asset back
Hajek ADA
Smith/Lindgren/Pionk/Rykov
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Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
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We rarely agree but here we do. I doubt a rental winger of Zucc's caliber will return a blue-chip prospect plus a 2nd round pick. If we get a prospect, I would expect Salo, Wilde or Dal Colle.
Guys like Ho-Sang, Bellows, Dobson, Wahlstrom are probably off limits
* In 2019, they only have the CGY 2nd round pick by the way
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
In some ways I'd rather Wilde+1st than Wahlstrom+2nd. Although if the Rangers didn't take Wilde when he was available to them in the draft, I'd guess they probably don't want him in trade. I'm not much interested in Dal Colle. Don't know much about Salo... how was his D+1 seen?
The 1st can be lottery protected (and by that, I mean it only stays with the Islanders if they win the lottery)
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Zucc isn't landing a blue chip prospect.
You'd probably get a first and a B prospect, or a first and another pick. Take a little off the Nash package and you're probably in the ballpark.
Assuming Zucc is his usual 16 goal, 50+ point self.
If he's sliding a bit, the value would probably come off the prospect/additional pick side of things.
You'd probably get a first and a B prospect, or a first and another pick. Take a little off the Nash package and you're probably in the ballpark.
Assuming Zucc is his usual 16 goal, 50+ point self.
If he's sliding a bit, the value would probably come off the prospect/additional pick side of things.
At this point, I'm not even confident he will return a 1st.
Depends on what else is available/how he performs.
Depends on what else is available/how he performs.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Find myself feeling the same way about Zucc that I did about Nash last season. Barring a major slide, I'm not terribly concerned about getting a first. It's the value added that is more of a wild card for me.
Off Sides
Registered User
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I think they'd get more back for the outgoing players if they could get them to play better.
If they want to sell Hayes, having all of Zbad, Howden and Chytil eat into his ice time it not the best situation, and on the other hand having Zbad, Hayes eat into the development time for Howden and Chytil is probably not optimal. Howden has run with it and I don't think they should discourage that. Chytil has made some select good plays but if he is going to be the player who gets less ice time moving forward I kind of think it would be better if he got more minutes in the AHL.
They are not likely to be able to move Staal no matter what, his ice time is being wasted. Leadership implies followers. A player who can not even a play sufficiently in a limited role is eventuality going to be seen by his followers as an impediment. They are rebuilding, development time as well as moving away from Staal should be more important than his leadership at this point. Pionk and ADA need ice time at the NHL level. Move McLeod over to LD or play Claesson at LD and let the two developing RDs play their natural position. That also gives Shattenkirk a set role with a set partner so he can work on increasing his value.
Is it good for Georgiev to play the back role with this roster in front of him? Or would he too be better off developing in the AHL?
I just don't see any other way they are going to create stability among the roster. Without stability how are they going to create an environment that both can foster development and retain or even build value among those they'd like to move?
It's 3 games in, I get it, that is a small sample yet I think putting all they did with the roster they broke camp with on a new to the NHL head coach is probably going to be too much.
If they want to sell Hayes, having all of Zbad, Howden and Chytil eat into his ice time it not the best situation, and on the other hand having Zbad, Hayes eat into the development time for Howden and Chytil is probably not optimal. Howden has run with it and I don't think they should discourage that. Chytil has made some select good plays but if he is going to be the player who gets less ice time moving forward I kind of think it would be better if he got more minutes in the AHL.
They are not likely to be able to move Staal no matter what, his ice time is being wasted. Leadership implies followers. A player who can not even a play sufficiently in a limited role is eventuality going to be seen by his followers as an impediment. They are rebuilding, development time as well as moving away from Staal should be more important than his leadership at this point. Pionk and ADA need ice time at the NHL level. Move McLeod over to LD or play Claesson at LD and let the two developing RDs play their natural position. That also gives Shattenkirk a set role with a set partner so he can work on increasing his value.
Is it good for Georgiev to play the back role with this roster in front of him? Or would he too be better off developing in the AHL?
I just don't see any other way they are going to create stability among the roster. Without stability how are they going to create an environment that both can foster development and retain or even build value among those they'd like to move?
It's 3 games in, I get it, that is a small sample yet I think putting all they did with the roster they broke camp with on a new to the NHL head coach is probably going to be too much.
Zats Muccarello
Grinder
Depends on the market to be honest. I mean look at what Tatar got, not because he was performing all that well but because there was a shortage of available forward options at the deadline. Hopefully the market works in our favor, a 1st plus decent prospect or another draft pick instead would be a good deal imo.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think there's many possibilities moving forward.
I think time allotments, in general, will shift as the season progresses. I also think there's going to be a decent amount of back and forth traffic between the Rangers and Hartford.
Even under the best of circumstances, it's going to be a constant balancing act.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
He should. 50-60 point rental players with tons of experience routinely return a 1st and a decent prospect. Look at what Andrew Ladd got, for instance.
Unless he's really fallen off this year, we should be expecting it.
Its not the natural assumption to make, I understand, but if you are press-boxed you think its unfair, you don't think you suck. If you play on the ice and suck, you think you suck.
Sometimes its better to hold a kid off a bit if he is struggling and the environment you would put him in would be really really shaky.
Its not a conclusion I've made by thinking it through, its just something I've started to think after following numerous situations like this over the years. Kids that are held back a little by coaches and eased into the league tends to do much better, be much more confident etc. Kids just tends to develop a lot better in an environment where they have to perform on the ice to play and there are alternatives that are so good that they will overtake them if they don't perform, compared to kids who are played because there being no alternatives.
Ladd had pedigree and intangibles+grit.
It's why we got back so much for Nash last season. Reputation greatly inflates a guys value.
I fear we may find ourselves in a situation where an Evander Kane esque return is more likely.
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