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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part X — Active Roster in OP (09/28)

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Go Away Staal said:
Ladd had pedigree and intangibles+grit.

It's why we got back so much for Nash last season.
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Zuccarello has intangibles of his own, including 60 playoff games. He might not be a physical presence, but I have no doubt he's looked at as being a valuable player around the league.
 
Go Away Staal said:
Ladd had pedigree and intangibles+grit.

It's why we got back so much for Nash last season. Reputation greatly inflates a guys value.

I fear we may find ourselves in a situation where an Evander Kane esque return is more likely.
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Truth be told, there's not a ton of difference between the two returns --- other than the first being a conditional upon resigning.

So assuming you take off some of the inflation of the Nash trade, it's right in that general ball park.

Zucc doesn't have the pedigree of a Kane or Nash, but he does have the reputation of a guy whose has been to the dance numerous times and played an important role.
 
Edge said:
I think there's many possibilities moving forward.

I think time allotments, in general, will shift as the season progresses. I also think there's going to be a decent amount of back and forth traffic between the Rangers and Hartford.

Even under the best of circumstances, it's going to be a constant balancing act.
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It does not have to be as much as a balancing act, as is through 3 games Howden has looked good, Chytil has made a couple nice plays, ADA in his one game has played well, none of the other 19-23 year olds have looked good and none of the players they will likely look to sell have looked good.

I think they gave coaching too much to deal with. They have 7 players between 19 and 23 year old on their entry levels, they are trying to balance that development with vets they apparently can't scratch.
 
Off Sides said:
It does not have to be as much as a balancing act, as is through 3 games Howden has looked good, Chytil has made a couple nice plays, ADA in his one game has played well, none of the other 19-23 year olds have looked good and none of the players they will likely look to sell have looked good.

I think they gave coaching too much to deal with. They have 7 players between 19 and 23 year old on their entry levels, they are trying to balance that development with vets they apparently can't scratch.
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I just don't see any of that as really being a concern 3 games into the season --- it's just way too early.

Howden, Chytil and ADA have looked. If that continues, the rest will fall into place. If they don't, other paths will be taken.

I don't think any of the vets are unscratchable, but I don't think 3 games is going to be the point where we'd see those moves. Likewise, I don't really see a ton of robbing Peter to pay Paul when it comes to development.

The closest might be the ADA-Pionk situation, and I think that probably becomes more clear in the coming weeks.
 
Personally i think this clubs lack of a W is that they are in the process of learing the new system, under a new coach with some new components to the team. I do think they are going to figure it out sooner rather then later and I still think the end up somewhere in the middle of the pack this year.


Good to see #20 get going in the last game. The first couple of games he didnt look so hot.
Great to see Vesey off to the start he is. Creating chances. Seems quicker and has engaged.
 
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Yeah you may think Zucc has decided to ride along as a passenger until he gets traded, but then he'll lose value...and money. Wouldn't be a smart strategy.

But I'm sure he'll turn on his A game, he knows he sucked against the Canes.

The Isles have a few interesting prospects, there's definitely something here.
 
Lion Hound said:
Personally i think this clubs lack of a W is that they are in the process of learing the new system, under a new coach with some new components to the team. I do think they are going to figure it out sooner rather then later and I still think the end up somewhere in the middle of the pack this year.


Good to see #20 get going in the last game. The first couple of games he didnt look so hot.
Great to see Vesey off to the start he is. Creating chances. Seems quicker and has engaged.
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He's been a streaky player his whole career - invisible one game, dominant the next. That's probably not going to change.
 
Edge said:
I just don't see any of that as really being a concern 3 games into the season --- it's just way too early.

Howden, Chytil and ADA have looked. If that continues, the rest will fall into place. If they don't, other paths will be taken.

I don't think any of the vets are unscratchable, but I don't think 3 games is going to be the point where we'd see those moves. Likewise, I don't really see a ton of robbing Peter to pay Paul when it comes to development.

The closest might be the ADA-Pionk situation, and I think that probably becomes more clear in the coming weeks.
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Okay so when do I get to have those concerns, like 5 games in, or do I have to wait until 20 games in, because they were the same concerns I had when camp broke with the roster they choose. Same concerns when they made the McQuaid trade in the first place.
 
Off Sides said:
Okay so when do I get to have those concerns, like 5 games in, or do I have to wait until 20 games in, because they were the same concerns I had when camp broke with the roster they choose. Same concerns when they made the McQuaid trade in the first place.
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I don't think it's a matter of when we "get" to have concerns, so much as understanding that they are always going to be there --- in spades --- for the foreseeable future.

A rebuild is one of the most unstable experiences to live through, and that's if everything more or less works out well.

But generally speaking, I've found the cream always finds a way to rise to the top. Maybe not in the manner you quite envisioned, or sometimes as smoothly or ideally as one would hope. But one way or the other, it tends to happen. It's not all that different than what each of us experiences in our day-to-day lives.
 
Edge said:
I don't think it's a matter of when we "get" to have concerns, so much as understanding that they are always going to be there --- in spades --- for the foreseeable future.

A rebuild is one of the most unstable experiences to live through, and that's if everything more or less works out well.

But generally speaking, I've found the cream always finds a way to rise to the top. Maybe not in the manner you quite envisioned, or sometimes as smoothly or ideally as one would hope. But one way or the other, it tends to happen. It's not all that different than what each of us experiences in our day-to-day lives.
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I have found logical steps towards something usually pans out best.

Sometimes emotional attachment impedes the progress.
 
Off Sides said:
I have found logical steps towards something usually pans out bets.
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But success also takes time and often doesn't reflect the plan we start with in our head nearly as much as we'd like to believe.

The danger in times of uncertainty is that we tend to retreat into ourselves --- our fears, our own sense of control. We become married to ideas and concepts that inevitably are going to need to evolve and change.

I think that's probably going to be one of our biggest challenges on these boards. We tend to hunker down when we're rattled.
 
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Go Away Staal said:
Ladd had pedigree and intangibles+grit.

It's why we got back so much for Nash last season. Reputation greatly inflates a guys value.

I fear we may find ourselves in a situation where an Evander Kane esque return is more likely.
Click to expand...

Don't tell me after all these years you have failed to notice Zucc's great personality and character? This alone will add a lot to his value if they decide to trade him.

And grit? I'm sorry to say, but Zucc is basically our toughest player out there...
 
Edge said:
But success also takes time and often doesn't reflect the plan we start with in our head nearly as much as we'd like to believe.

The danger in times of uncertainty is that we tend to retreat into ourselves --- our fears, our own sense of control. We become married to ideas and concepts that inevitably are going to need to evolve and change.

I think that's probably going to be one of our biggest challenges on these boards. We tend to hunker down when we're rattled.
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It's a rebuild, why not look at it logically?

A rebuilding team is better playing Staal until they eventually scratch him or play him right up until the point they buy him out or are they better using that ice time somehow else?

Players on the last years of the entry level, better to find out if they can play at the NHL level or not?

Players who have years left on their entry level, better to force them into the NHL roster and limit their minutes, or let them play bigger minutes in all situations in the AHL?

Players they'd like to sell, better to put the importance on their possible value on the back burner or to try to put them into position to be able to get more value back out of them?

They are the ones married to contradictory concepts, Lias, it's good for him to develop and play in the AHL, Chytil though it's okay for him to get 10 minutes of ice time in the NHL. Pionk has to be developed, but ADA we can scratch him for the two first games. Fast, Physical, Relentless are adjectives that describe Staal? I could probably list more but point I am making is they seem all disheveled, yes it's been only 3 games, but they created more of that than they needed to.
 
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@Off Sides not for nothing, but if Chytil is going to continue get 10 minutes per night he's probably going to end up going back to the AHL. Not that that would be a big deal.
 
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Webster said:
Don't tell me after all these years you have failed to notice Zucc's great personality and character? This alone will add a lot to his value if they decide to trade him.

And grit? I'm sorry to say, but Zucc is basically our toughest player out there...
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Teams don't pay for personality.
 
Tawnos said:
@Off Sides not for nothing, but if Chytil is going to continue get 10 minutes per night he's probably going to end up going back to the AHL. Not that that would be a big deal.
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So why not start him there from the gets go and just use the same phrasing/logic as they did with Lias?

I mean it really makes me question the thought process that went into the NHL roster.

For example Shattenkirk has been bad, would he have been as bad had they just gave him a partner through camp/preseason and stuck with that? Pionk has not been very good, had they paired him with a different LD does he look as bad? ADA was good in preseason why did he draw the short straw?

It's not that I even care win or lose, to me this should be all about development both of the prospects/youth and of the value they could maybe get back for any of the players their cap structure shows they are likely selling before this ship turns into wins/loses being important because I think that those are the two most important parts of the rebuild. I think they seem to have some other aspect in there that I just don't value... just would value less than the first two aspects.
 
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