Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VIII: Dilly Dilly - Lets Tank!

[Tawnos]

My argument is that you can't guarantee which Hayes youryo getting. If he plays the way he did last year, then yeah, that deal is just fine and probably pretty valuable on the trade market should the need arise.

However, if he regresses then you're in a tough spot. You have an asset you have to hope bounces back because you've commited to him for a while. So while it's risky to hope that our prospects pan out, I think it's also risky to commit to a guy when you have the option to just wait and see. Besides, if our prospects don't pan out, we're going to have bigger problems than not having a Hayes replacement.

It's still hard to tell what we have in Hayes, and that in itself is enough to make me leery about signing him for long-term.

Also, players of similar quality to what Hayes has been are often available on the UFA market, like Tyler Bozak. Unless he takes a jump forward (not unthinkable at his age, see Derrick Brassard), I'm not worried about losing him since he's not really cost-controlled anymore.

 

[LORDE]

Hopefully the days of doling out "clauses" of any kind (maybe Santa... but even then...) to anyone who's GOOD but not great is over.

Hayes is a good player, but in no way does he deserve a NTC or even a NMC. IF that was the sticking point good for Gorts.

Players want security and I get that, but no more of that crap. Hopefully learned lesson with G, Staal and by dodging Stepan's.

 

[Mac n Gs]

My argument is that you can't guarantee which Hayes youryo getting. If he plays the way he did last year, then yeah, that deal is just fine and probably pretty valuable on the trade market should the need arise.

However, if he regresses then you're in a tough spot. You have an asset you have to hope bounces back because you've commited to him for a while. So while it's risky to hope that our prospects pan out, I think it's also risky to commit to a guy when you have the option to just wait and see. Besides, if our prospects don't pan out, we're going to have bigger problems than not having a Hayes replacement.

Hayes has improving over the past two seasons from that garbage sophomore year. I don’t see why he’d regress when his play indicates he’s getting better. Maybe he’ll plateau, but I’d still argue that he’d be perfectly worth that contact to be your 2C.

However, I do understand your wait and see approach. I’d rather make sure I have a safety net in case those prospects don’t work out. Maybe I’m trying to have my cake and eat it too, but I don’t see Hayes being here long-term from detracting from the overall plan to rebuild. They’ll still most likely be a high lottery team this year because of depth issues and a raw defense and have a chance at another top F prospect. Hayes seems like the perfect type of stopgap C to help them transition through the rebuild.

 

[Tawnos]

Hayes has improving over the past two seasons from that garbage sophomore year. I don’t see why he’d regress when his play indicates he’s getting better. Maybe he’ll plateau, but I’d still argue that he’d be perfectly worth that contact to be your 2C.

However, I do understand your wait and see approach. I’d rather make sure I have a safety net in case those prospects don’t work out. Maybe I’m trying to have my cake and eat it too, but I don’t see Hayes being here long-term from detracting from the overall plan to rebuild. They’ll still most likely be a high lottery team this year because of depth issues and a raw defense and have a chance at another top F prospect. Hayes seems like the perfect type of stopgap C to help them transition through the rebuild.

It's not really a matter of him improving over the last two seasons, it's that he was such a different player last year than the year before. Yes, granted at the urging of the coaching staff. I have more of a question about who he is as a player than I do about the quality of player he is.

 

[Mac n Gs]

It's not really a matter of him improving over the last two seasons, it's that he was such a different player last year than the year before. Yes, granted at the urging of the coaching staff. I have more of a question about who he is as a player than I do about the quality of player he is.

See to me, that just means that he’s shown that he can be an offensive matchup C and a good defensive matchup C. I originally hated the idea of him being used as a defensive C, and I was happily proven wrong about it.

Shouldn’t that suggest he’s a versatile C who can handle different roles? How far off am I a mile away from your evaluation of him?

 

[haohmaru]

The Rangers and Kevin Hayes. Why didn't the Rangers just give Hayes the long term contract this summer? The Rangers have some trepidation in giving Hayes a long term contract. They had the cap space. If Hayes has a career season in his walk year, do the Rangers trust him long-term? Hayes gets his long-term contract and the pressure to produce is over. Long term security. Hayes can just go back to being fat,lazy and going with the flow counting his money. Gorton makes the comment about having Hayes come into camp in great shape. That's always been an issue with Hayes. He was in poor shape in his 2nd season. The Rangers should trade Hayes at the deadline.

The fallacy behind this is assuming that the Rangers didn't make Hayes a fair offer. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't want to add NMC/NTC's to the deal or add them in the fashion that Hayes wanted.

Or, more likely, maybe Hayes realized that he's the one holding the cards here. Arbitration would've resulted in him getting a one year deal similar to the one he has now. He's probably banking on having a better year than he's ever had heading into what is likely to be the biggest payday of his life as a UFA in 2019.

I get that you don't like the guy, but he's got a whole lot more to gain by having a good year THIS YEAR than ever before. I hope he plays his ass off, increases his trade value, and the Rangers get a slew of prospects/picks at the deadline.

 

[Tawnos]

See to me, that just means that he’s shown that he can be an offensive matchup C and a good defensive matchup C. I originally hated the idea of him being used as a defensive C, and I was happily proven wrong about it.

Shouldn’t that suggest he’s a versatile C who can handle different roles? How far off am I a mile away from your evaluation of him?

It suggests versatility without really demonstrating it as a fundamental aspect of who he is. That's what I mean, it's more of a question than this kind of thing is for a guy like, say, Zibanejad or Kreider. We know what they are and we have for a little while.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

We got Hayes for free, he’s a valuable asset so we should try to get a return on him come trade deadline unless something catastrophic happens with Zib, Chytil, Andersson. He can still sign here if it’s the right fit and if not then we move on with the assets we got in return. He’s one of those guys that I’m happy to have and happy not to have.

 

[Mac n Gs]

It suggests versatility without really demonstrating it as a fundamental aspect of who he is. That's what I mean, it's more of a question than this kind of thing is for a guy like, say, Zibanejad or Kreider. We know what they are and we have for a little while.

That’s fair. I guess that’s what this year serves as for evaluating Hayes, and maybe your idea is more in line with Gorton’s thinking.

 

[Walter t]

 

[Walter t]

Great. Now he's short and fat.

 

[Profet]

So did Sean Day!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So did Sean Day!

It only took him a week, not the whole summer.

 

[Nickmo82]

Did he go wedding hopping with Brendan Smith?

 

[Webster]

Great. Now he's short and bulked up.

Fixed.

Ronning will have success in this league despite his limited frame. Some people have already ruled him out because of that, they never learn.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I’m gonna go conspiracy theory here and say that Hayes is getting traded at the deadline and these comments by Gorton are a smoke screen in order to facilitate the trade he wants.

I agree..but I think Gorts is also hedging his bets to see if Zib manages to stay healthy....

 

[DutchShamrock]

It seems like the next trend in the NHL is to get in line with the other big league and pay the franchise players a bulk of the money, and the rest get a comparatively modest salary. Its entirely possible that a hayes contract at $6m per would be bad for what he brings, assuming a new market emerges.

It seems like more players are intrigued by tavares's move, and of that's the case you can't tied up cap with average players getting paid handsomely.

Hayes is a good player. He's had a consistent career and plays well with and without the puck. But we can't fall into the trap of paying him for what he did last year, or protecting some asset in the event he walks. Don't lose him for nothing, but don't sign him just because he's the only obvious option and the returns aren't eye opening.

Memories seem to be short but Hayes was regarded as a lazy, frustrating and limited player by many people just 1 year ago. I didn't exactly believe in that perception then, but I don't really by into this new elevated hype either.

Anticipate the new markets. Be in position to capitalize. Losing Hayes' cap will he seen as an asset alone if we pick up Seguin.

 

[NYR]

Am I wrong in thinking that Ronning reminds me of Tyler Johnson?

 

[Walter t]

Fixed.

Ronning will have success in this league despite his limited frame. Some people have already ruled him out because of that, they never learn.

For the record I was joking about him being fat. I swear on my Eddie Johnstone autographed puck that I always root for the little guys.

 

[Walter t]

OK i lied. I dont have an Eddie Johnstone autographed puck. But I wish I had one and would swear on it if I did.

 

[Waivers]

Long term commitments and Forest Gump Kevin Hayes (you never know what you’re gonna get) mentioned in the same sentence while the Rangers have done a fine job cleaning the books does not necessarily stand out to me as the right thing to do.

 

[Vitto79]

Long term commitments and Forest Gump Kevin Hayes (you never know what you’re gonna get) mentioned in the same sentence while the Rangers have done a fine job cleaning the books does not necessarily stand out to me as the right thing to do.

I think it comes down to Zib, Chytil, Andersson, Howden at C so they move Hayes for ideally a 1st

Honestly they can sign a ufa like Nelson if they want a similar UFA but think they will focus on D and/wing UFAs next year

 

[Do you want ants]

Long term commitments and Forest Gump Kevin Hayes (you never know what you’re gonna get) mentioned in the same sentence while the Rangers have done a fine job cleaning the books does not necessarily stand out to me as the right thing to do.

I think people get too hung up on his poor sophomore season and hold that against him. There’s nothing wrong with having a surplus of centers on long term contracts. You trade them to upgrade other positions if warranted.

Meanwhile Skjei was in a similar situation and no one seemed to care that we locked him up long term. Maybe it’s Bc we lack dman, but it was/is still a gamble.

 

[Webster]

When it comes to Hayes, it's more about what he wants to do, because the Rangers want to sign him long term. But Hayes isn't sure if he wants to spend his prime years with a club that may not become a cup contender for the next 4-5 years.

So with this 1 yr deal he has the option next year to try his luck elsewhere, if the Rangers suck. Smart dude...

 

[FIRE DRURY]

When it comes to Hayes, it's more about what he wants to do, because the Rangers want to sign him long term. But Hayes isn't sure if he wants to spend his prime years with a club that may not become a cup contender for the next 4-5 years.

So with this 1 yr deal he has the option next year to try his luck elsewhere, if the Rangers suck. Smart dude...

If the Rangers wanted to sign him long term, they would have. You have your story all wrong.