Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VIII: Dilly Dilly - Lets Tank!
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Savant
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Thats kind of my point.
Get the best players regardless of where they play. Depth wins out at the end.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
There's a difference between center depth and having an elite center. Toews for parts of his career was an elite center. Chicago didn't need center depth because they had a couple of elite players.
I'd much rather have elite players than elite depth. Elite players are what wins Cups. We actually had elite depth for a number of years with guys like Yandle playing 3LHD or Staal as a 3rd line winger, and it got us nowhere.
If Seguin is too expensive, I wouldn't try to sign him, but between Seguin and Panarin, Seguin fills way more of a need. Both are great players and would instantly be our best skater, but if we are going to overpay for a UFA, I'd rather overpay for the center. Then again, the prices matter, so we'll have to wait for those markets to develop.
Chicago won in 2013 with Toews basically being MIA for almost the entire run.
They won because they had quality players everywhere (F, D, G.) Thats what wins, Chicago has been successful because they've had elite depth.
If you're given the choice between an elite C or W, the smart choice would be to take the better player regardless of position. That player is probably Seguin, but how much more would be be worth than Panarin?
They won because they had quality players everywhere (F, D, G.) Thats what wins, Chicago has been successful because they've had elite depth.
If you're given the choice between an elite C or W, the smart choice would be to take the better player regardless of position. That player is probably Seguin, but how much more would be be worth than Panarin?
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
He's not nearly as funny though.Limited by the fact that he has the physical talents of an average adult male with a dad bod.
But yeah, in terms of hockey IQ he's one of the top in the league.
He looks like H Jon Benjamin.
Richard Banger
Mamba Mentality
Toews and elite should never be put together in a sentence. He was never elite.
They had Kane and Keith. A handful of good players and hot goalies.
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GeorgeKaplan
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Well yeah. You only need money for Panarin.
The Rangers are a big market team and they know Panarin wants New York. This is the part where the Rangers should be using that information to recruit others. Bringing in Panarin and Seguin transforms the team and honestly it doesnt hurt the rebuild either. They use this year to accumulate more assets and suddenly they are ready for the next wave. Of course they need to fix the D, but they have to work with the players available. Panarin and Seguin at their ages, playing with each other for the rest of their primes is worth the long term commitment.
TheBloodyNine
Pure Bred Soviet Savage
Seguin and Panarin are not both getting signed, especially while this team still lacks a true number 1 D.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
They had Kane. Keith. Seabrook. Hossa. Toews put up nearly a point per game in the playoffs in 2015. They also had Saad and Sharp.
They had a metric f*** ton more than just Kane and Keith.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Especially with a salary cap.
Yeah we have more money than we're used to but unless we are moving Hank out where do those salaries come from???
Yeah I know, history dictates that you need to pick 1 or 2 in order to land that kind of player most of the time.
I’m totally behind doing what we can to be bad this year so we can possibly land in one of those spots while building enough depth in prospects where we can trade for another one of those level of players when one of them inevitably becomes disgruntled,
We should target a Cup. Stepan way too often fell flat and failed to step up in the POs. He got that point producing sweet spot being the only RHS and always top PP time and what not. 0.5 PPG in the POs isn’t enough. Think he was like 4+4 in his last 18 P.O. games for us.
And the real problem wasn’t so much production or lack thereof, it was failing to step up and create offense and beat the other team at ‘hockey’.
I have no problem whatsoever with Stepan isolated. But our top core guys all more or less were short in the same areas. They were clutch, but the POs isn’t only about being clutch anymore. There is all kind of room for skill, and JT Miller, Kreider, Stepan, Hayes and all those guys just failed to step up and take advantage of the room the game offers for top players nowadays. A Hoffman or Radulov or someone like that just pwned the scene against our guys.
The talk about subpar/average/good/great 1/2/3 center don’t say much to me. In the right environment I am sure Stepan could be an important cog on a Cup contender. Depending on if you are a half full or half empty type of guy you can blame Step for not being enough or blame the others around him for our faults — but facts are that we as a team fell short and Stepan wasn’t perfect, at least...
And the real problem wasn’t so much production or lack thereof, it was failing to step up and create offense and beat the other team at ‘hockey’.
I have no problem whatsoever with Stepan isolated. But our top core guys all more or less were short in the same areas. They were clutch, but the POs isn’t only about being clutch anymore. There is all kind of room for skill, and JT Miller, Kreider, Stepan, Hayes and all those guys just failed to step up and take advantage of the room the game offers for top players nowadays. A Hoffman or Radulov or someone like that just pwned the scene against our guys.
The talk about subpar/average/good/great 1/2/3 center don’t say much to me. In the right environment I am sure Stepan could be an important cog on a Cup contender. Depending on if you are a half full or half empty type of guy you can blame Step for not being enough or blame the others around him for our faults — but facts are that we as a team fell short and Stepan wasn’t perfect, at least...
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I feel like Toews is one of those players who either gets elevated a bit too high, or overlooked depending on who is making the comment.
We almost forget that before injuries started to take their toll, he was a legit 30 goal, 80 point center.
Heck, that's a top echelon center now, let alone 5-8 years ago.
Richard Banger
Mamba Mentality
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
It doesn't matter. Their supporting cast and depth was absolutely elite. When you have a franchise forward and defenseman as well as 6-7 other star players, you're going to be good. Those "good" players are the reason they win the cup.
Regardless of what you think of toews, Hosea was for sure elite.
They had at least 3 and as many as 4
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
It depends which Blackhawks team you’re talking about.
It’s moot anyway, the CBA is different now. You can’t sign players until the sun burns out to save on the cap hit.
Not to mention “elite” is a totally subjective term and at the end of the day pretty useless. Cup formulas, fitting players into nice, little compartments...it all kind of rubs me the wrong way. People will use the 2014 Rangers as an example, but if you’re in the Stanley Cup Final, you are capable of winning a championship; it’s baloney to say otherwise.
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DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
Jonathan Toews from about 2008-2014 was absolutely an elite center. A close to PPG Center who drove possession like a beast, in an era where it was hard to score was absolutely an elite player. But in general, having a team with a couple elite players is usually better than having great depth, at least from some of the data that's been looked at in the analytics community.
Just looked, Toews from 2008-2015 was 10th in P/60 and 9th in Primary points/60 in the entire NHL at 5v5. That's elite.
Just looked, Toews from 2008-2015 was 10th in P/60 and 9th in Primary points/60 in the entire NHL at 5v5. That's elite.
Yandle at 3LD was more of a resource misallocation than it was a positive commentary on our depth. I do agree with your concept however.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
I know it's probably not likely, but if they could afford it, why the hell not? That forward corps would be lethal. Offense wins games.
Richard Banger
Mamba Mentality
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