Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)
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haohmaru
boomshakalaka
I didn’t advocate it. Just pointed it out that he doesn’t have to be traded to be moved. He’s looked good the last few games.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
No no both the other poster and me misread your comment. LOL. I just see it now!
- Apr 16, 2012
- 4,999
- 6,372
There’s no reason to sell low on Kakko. He’s injured, coming off a bad season start and not making much money. His QO is 2.4 mil. It’s a no brainer to keep him and resign him since you won’t get Jack shit for him, and that includes no real cap relief.
He looked absolutely fine the season before. He wasn't the player we were worried about.
He looked absolutely fine playing with Mika and CK.
He got hurt.
Selling low would be incredibly stupid. He's a top 6 player for 2m...
Considering how cap strapped we are, you're not getting a better deal than that.
Peltz
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2019
- 3,925
- 5,628
Given the upside and the fact you can extend him cheap, I agree you have to keep Kakko. At the very least, he's an excellent 3rd line player. But I do think he should be a top 6 guy come playoff time this year if healthy.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Wheeler isn't so bad that we desperately need to get him out of the lineup. Ideally, you bump him to the 4th line and that's fine. This is the guy we need to get out of the lineup tbh:
I get that we like his penalty killing but...yeah, I don't like it that(^^) much.
I get that we like his penalty killing but...yeah, I don't like it that(^^) much.
As per Vesey think he has been great. but think he is great in that bottom 6 role. Granted we want to see Wheeler out of the Top 6 and whatnot, I think that's a spot for Kakko when he gets back. You start giving Vesey more ice time and a bigger role, and the numbers may not be there. I'd just keep him in the role he has now which has been excellent.
We still need to find a way to trade Goodrow, but at this point, looking like a buyout candidate.
We still need to find a way to trade Goodrow, but at this point, looking like a buyout candidate.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
If we're going to upgrade, I got a LD first but that's neither here nor there.
If we get a forward, I would get a center before I get a winger. When Chytil comes back, somebody moves to wing. Done and dusted.
Bonino in the top 9 is seriously ruining everything I wanna try. It gives us no flexibility because Laviolette won't put players with Bonino who might score, nor should he, honestly.
Edstrom was such a breath of fresh air in that spot, and I can see already that we're going to go with Bonino because he does things and stuff. He likes Bonino but won't put anybody who can do offense anywhere near him. Shades of Tanner Glass usage.
This is the first thing Laviolette is going to do that annoys me.
If we get a forward, I would get a center before I get a winger. When Chytil comes back, somebody moves to wing. Done and dusted.
Bonino in the top 9 is seriously ruining everything I wanna try. It gives us no flexibility because Laviolette won't put players with Bonino who might score, nor should he, honestly.
Edstrom was such a breath of fresh air in that spot, and I can see already that we're going to go with Bonino because he does things and stuff. He likes Bonino but won't put anybody who can do offense anywhere near him. Shades of Tanner Glass usage.
This is the first thing Laviolette is going to do that annoys me.
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
- 10,132
- 9,003
Chytil returning solves the Bonino issue hopefully. Brodz has done more in less time than Bonino and I think you'd be more likely to have him pass through waivers or someone claim him because of his PK reputation.
There is only one line on the team I wouldn't tinker with and it's the 4th line. They're doing exactly as asked and maybe even more than that. When you get Chytil back you can try some stuff.
When it comes to Bonino being in the lineup or not getting moved out/waived, it has all to do with bodies at this rate. He was worth the risk, especially since he was with Laviolette and can help get the message across at the beginning of the season. We're reaching the point of the season where that is not needed.
I would like to see more of Edstrom. He was not your 6'7 goon that cannot do anything. He can skate and handle the puck. This team has an abundance of wingers on the way and if he can fill a C role, even if it is the 4C role, will make the C depth issues easier to handle.
There is only one line on the team I wouldn't tinker with and it's the 4th line. They're doing exactly as asked and maybe even more than that. When you get Chytil back you can try some stuff.
When it comes to Bonino being in the lineup or not getting moved out/waived, it has all to do with bodies at this rate. He was worth the risk, especially since he was with Laviolette and can help get the message across at the beginning of the season. We're reaching the point of the season where that is not needed.
I would like to see more of Edstrom. He was not your 6'7 goon that cannot do anything. He can skate and handle the puck. This team has an abundance of wingers on the way and if he can fill a C role, even if it is the 4C role, will make the C depth issues easier to handle.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I get "role players" and the like, but what's his role?
Making sure we don't end the series early so ESPN gets good ratings?
Anything that Bonino does or is perceived as doing is done by Goodrow, Wheeler, Vesey, and Pitlick and they're all better players.
If he was on the 4th line, sure, whatever. The other 4th liners aren't enough of an improvement on Bonino to lose sleep over it, with the exception of Vesey, but he's in the top 9. That's really concerning.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
The 4th line is working because Vesey is on it, and he's basically a 2nd liner at even strength.
I think the benefits of giving Vesey more minutes would outweigh the benefits of having an effective 4th line.
Maybe when we're fully healthy, you re-visit the whole thing, but there's definitely spots at RW for Vesey to move up right now.
Our underlying numbers tanked last year after we demoted Vesey to give one of the least effective players in the league extended looks in the top six because he was good in 2016 and is friends with Panarin.
effen
Registered User
- Jun 27, 2003
- 12,718
- 10,893
If you were a glass half full guy, you could see this as Laviolette giving Bonino the most opportunity possible to show *anything* and when he can't to scratch him going forward.
Right or wrong, Laviolette has shown he will give his guys ample time to work things out. That's probably helpful in the long run for the room and hurts in the short run for what we're seeing.
What I'm positive of is that Lav is no dummy. We had dummy coaches. This guy is not one of them. There's a reason.
Savant
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2013
- 39,267
- 11,914
What does Wheeler offer a fourth line though? He’s not exactly a checking/energy guy either
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 36,338
- 24,106
He can work in a unit based around cycling behind the net, not unlike Anisimov early in his career.
Vesey-Goodrow-Wheeler could be such a line
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
He does everything better than Bonino, pretty much.
I don't subscribe to the notion that you should put worse players out there because they do conventional "4th line stuff." Most 4th liners don't do anything. "Energy and checking" is mostly a cope for "well, he's bad but we need 12 of them." Unless, again, it's Vesey and he shouldn't really be on anyone's 4th line.
I mean, like, it would be nice if we could upgrade all of our players but when we're talking about getting the guy to waive so we can trade him to NJ or burying a 16-year vet in the minors, realism kicks in.
He could take a shift on the 4th line and be bad like all the other ones, and we avoid a headache.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I got news for you, Goodrow also sucks, which we've talked about because he has a high salary, and Pitlick sucks which nobody brings up because he doesn't have a high salary (fair enough).
4th liners suck unless they're being underutilized. Base-level suck is where Wheeler is at.
Bonino is below base-level suck and is playing above his station on top of that.
4th liners suck unless they're being underutilized. Base-level suck is where Wheeler is at.
Bonino is below base-level suck and is playing above his station on top of that.
NYR Viper
Registered User
The forward woes, to me, are pretty well solved by health. Kaako and Chytil back in the next 2 months and that's a HUGE boost.
I agree that I wouldn't want to touch that 4th line if I don't have to. Piltick-Goodrow-Vesey is a unit I could see giving Laviolette that matchup line that teams love to have going into the playoffs. In saying that, the top-9 RW's are not good. Kakko should fill one hole. Lafreniere clearly fills another one. The other RW spot is up in the air. I'd really prefer to see someone who can play a more physical game but could be talked in to a Wheeler/Brodzinski platoon once everyone is healthy.
In saying that, the MOST glaring need I see both now and moving forward, long term, and I'll keep harping on this, is at LD. Robertson and Scanlin aren't the answer here. The teams prospects on defense are likely a ways away, if they ever develop. The team is fortunate in that they have Fox, Trouba and Miller here long term. If Schneider can develop that would be quite the safety blanket. I don't see Lindgren or Gustafsson as long term viable options (maybe Gustafsson on another short term deal next year). That's a problem when a top-4 LD plays 22-24 minutes a night in the playoffs and is capable of having such a huge effect on a series.
I agree that I wouldn't want to touch that 4th line if I don't have to. Piltick-Goodrow-Vesey is a unit I could see giving Laviolette that matchup line that teams love to have going into the playoffs. In saying that, the top-9 RW's are not good. Kakko should fill one hole. Lafreniere clearly fills another one. The other RW spot is up in the air. I'd really prefer to see someone who can play a more physical game but could be talked in to a Wheeler/Brodzinski platoon once everyone is healthy.
In saying that, the MOST glaring need I see both now and moving forward, long term, and I'll keep harping on this, is at LD. Robertson and Scanlin aren't the answer here. The teams prospects on defense are likely a ways away, if they ever develop. The team is fortunate in that they have Fox, Trouba and Miller here long term. If Schneider can develop that would be quite the safety blanket. I don't see Lindgren or Gustafsson as long term viable options (maybe Gustafsson on another short term deal next year). That's a problem when a top-4 LD plays 22-24 minutes a night in the playoffs and is capable of having such a huge effect on a series.
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
- 22,835
- 13,558
Wait, I’m confused. Are they trying to upgrade Lindgren with Hanifin, Hanafin, or Hanifan? 
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
- 10,132
- 9,003
Something like this is possible when fully healthy. They need Kakko back to do things like this, unless Laviolette goes with Brodz back in the top 6.
I think this was the vision of many with the signing, maybe 3rd line usage. They've made it this far with Wheeler getting a bunch of top 6 time.
Also @Machinehead is right about 4th liners. If they were average, they'd be on your 3rd line unless you have insane level depth. Vesey carrying Goodrow around for the regular season is fine, but it will be much harder in the postseason when not many teams at that level will have passengers.
By the deadline, you need 2 spots up front to fill in with 3rd line or better players so you can have one of them be their best 4th liner. Maybe that can be handled internally, especially on the wings. I'd just play Brodzinki there when back to 100% and go with it, maybe even Cuylle as well.
10-16-13
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NYR Viper
Registered User
This is where I'm at as well. Which means, if everyone is healthy, I'm seeing:
Panarin-Chytil-Lafreniere
Kreider-Trochek-Kakko
Cuylle-Zibanejad-________
Pitlick-Goodrow-Vesey
Brodzinski and Wheeler are the guys who could conceivably fit there although I'd love to find someone else if they are inexpensive and could fit there.
In saying that I still concentrate on LD if I have the ability to do so
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