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Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

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majordomo said:
There's something about putting on a Rangers uniform that turns players into puddy tats.
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Eh I'd say it really depends on the era. From your picture, yes, they had a grit problem in the early-mid 70s which probably cost them a Cup.

I can think of many times (1981 playoffs, Sator's short tenure, Neilson, Keenan, Torts) when they were just fine with the physicality.

I'd say the bigger problem the last four-five years is developing middle six PITAs who are a menace to play against. Those are coming up in the system.
 
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Roo Returns said:
Eh I'd say it really depends on the era. From your picture, yes, they had a grit problem in the early-mid 70s which probably cost them a Cup.

I can think of many times (1981 playoffs, Sator's short tenure, Neilson, Keenan, Torts) when they were just fine with the physicality.

I'd say the bigger problem the last four-five years is developing middle six PITAs who are a menace to play against. Those are coming up in the system.
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I agree.
 
majordomo said:
There's something about putting on a Rangers uniform that turns players into puddy tats.
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Idk, I think people just see highlights on twitter or the occasional high-intensity game, they misjudge other teams and players and their "toughness" and clamor for them but when the players come here they realize they can’t actually do anything lol
 
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mandiblesofdoom said:
Re "grit" ... people always call for it ... what is it?

Seems we were doing better before Fox came back & Jones was still in the lineup. Not sure what to make of that. I know Fox is a great player.
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When Fox came back into the lineup, he replaced other puck-movers and we already didn't have enough to go around.

If all of Fox, Gustaffson, and Jones were in with Gustafsson getting top 4 minutes, we'd probably start playing well again.

Our defense can't move the puck and the same 3 or 4 posters have been screaming about it since 2020 while we talk about grit and Patrick Kane.
 
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People don't want some abstract idea of grit or a facepuncher, they want the team to not roll over and die while visibly avoiding hits and physical play the way they have the last 2 games.

It's really disingenuous to make strawmen about grit and mock people when they are very obviously talking about frustration at a lack of normal-for-the-NHL effort.

That's not a lull or a rut, that's putting in a shitty effort at your job.
 
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Machinehead said:
When Fox came back into the lineup, he replaced other puck-movers and we already didn't have enough to go around.

If all of Fox, Gustaffson, and Jones were in with Gustafsson getting top 4 minutes, we'd probably start playing well again.

Our defense can't move the puck and the same 3 or 4 posters have been screaming about it since 2020 while we talk about grit and Patrick Kane.
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#therightsideofhistory

If you are making room for Jones though, you probably have to trade Lindgren or Miller; which isn’t the worst idea, but would be curious about what kind of a return that you could get there. They both have kind of weird value right now
 
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effen said:
People don't want some abstract idea of grit or a facepuncher, they want the team to not roll over and die while visibly avoiding hits and physical play the way they have the last 2 games.

It's really disingenuous to make strawmen about grit and mock people when they are very obviously talking about frustration at a lack of normal-for-the-NHL effort.

That's not a lull or a rut, that's putting in a shitty effort at your job.
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If you want the team to not roll over and die, you need to ice a roster capable of generating something.

Take out Mika, Kreider, and Fox, who are all playing like shit, and we're damn close to sending out an AHL lineup aside from that one line. What do you expect that to look like?

And if your expectation can't be measured by the quality of the hockey, which tracks with what we're putting on the ice, then it is an abstract idea.
 
majordomo said:
To be honest, I don't think he's been the same player since the runin with Carey Price. He'd been called for a number of "marginal" calls due to hits he'd made and he started pulling back....he really changed after the CP incident.
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Yeah that year and maybe a year or 2 more CK was more like a bull in a china shop. In recent years CK threw a lot of hits (over 100) but they were more hits that were not intended to really hurt. Like you were hitting a close friend lol. :D
 
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Machinehead said:
If you want the team to not roll over and die, you need to ice a roster capable of generating something.

Take out Mika, Kreider, and Fox, who are all playing like shit, and we're damn close to sending out an AHL lineup aside from that one line. What do you expect that to look like?

And if your expectation can't be measured by the quality of the hockey, which tracks with what we're putting on the ice, then it is an abstract idea.
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Theyre not so decimated missing their 3rd best center and 2nd best by default RW that I accept that.
 
Machinehead said:
If you want the team to not roll over and die, you need to ice a roster capable of generating something.

Take out Mika, Kreider, and Fox, who are all playing like shit, and we're damn close to sending out an AHL lineup aside from that one line. What do you expect that to look like?

And if your expectation can't be measured by the quality of the hockey, which tracks with what we're putting on the ice, then it is an abstract idea.
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We need those guys but we need more from those guys when playing at 5 on 5.
 
Machinehead said:
Look at the lineup.

A career AHL'er is on the 1st line and the 3rd and 4th lines are not NHL lines right now.

They are that decimated, because it wasn't good enough to begin with.
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I think the start to the season tricked a large segment that this team was magically cured of all its warts. Take away the play of Panarin & his scorching hot start & the team has the same exact issues it has the past 5 years. This is a one like hockey team with a dearth of skill & speed, who plays a babyshit soft style of hockey. The biggest difference is that for the 1st 25 games, they were more structured than they had been.
 
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Has there been any other updates on Chytil since Joe told us he was skating by himself just before Thanksgiving?
 
Boris Zubov said:
I think the start to the season tricked a large segment that this team was magically cured of all its warts. Take away the play of Panarin & his scorching hot start & the team has the same exact issues it has the past 5 years. This is a one like hockey team with a dearth of skill & speed, who plays a babyshit soft style of hockey. The biggest difference is that for the 1st 25 games, they were more structured than they had been.
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I like our guys but you are right about a lot. They do have enough skill to have a good regular season record but once the playoffs start the game is faster and more physical. The games are sometimes played in phone booth spaces. Our guys are not made to lead in those games. They could be good support in those games but they are not leading imo.
 
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Boris Zubov said:
I think the start to the season tricked a large segment that this team was magically cured of all its warts. Take away the play of Panarin & his scorching hot start & the team has the same exact issues it has the past 5 years. This is a one like hockey team with a dearth of skill & speed, who plays a babyshit soft style of hockey. The biggest difference is that for the 1st 25 games, they were more structured than they had been.
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the "soft" stuff has literally nothing backing it up - both in terms of us being it and it mattering. It relies entirely on trust me bro.

There is no dearth of skill and speed on this team. Fully healthy theyre paper thin at wing and have Blake Wheeler and Will Cuylle in their top 9. Bonino/Goodrow who are definitively AHLers getting meaningful ice time. This is the opposite of depth. Dallas has an actual dearth of talent. They rounded out their top 9 with Matt Duchene and Craig Smith after going to the WCF
 
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80shockeywasbuns said:
the "soft" stuff has literally nothing backing it up - both in terms of us being it and it mattering. It relies entirely on trust me bro.

There is no dearth of skill and speed on this team. Fully healthy theyre paper thin at wing and have Blake Wheeler and Will Cuylle in their top 9. Bonino/Goodrow who are definitively AHLers getting meaningful ice time. This is the opposite of depth. Dallas has an actual dearth of talent. They rounded out their top 9 with Matt Duchene and Craig Smith after going to the WCF
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If you think this team is hard to play against or has enough speed or skill, there's no sense in going back & forth. We're on our 3rd coach in 5 years & the same inherent roster issues keep showing up. At some point it becomes fairly obvious the roster construction just isn't good enough. We can revisit this in May & I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong.
 
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Machinehead said:
On paper, and assuming we get close to what Othmann is supposed to be, yes, it would a plug a huge hole.

In reality, we have no idea what Othmann is at the NHL level.
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True, but just his position and style of play are 2 things we're lacking big time.

Top 6 RW who playes with a bit of an edge, a direct game, and a shooter. 3 things we don't have at the moment
 
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Machinehead said:
On paper, and assuming we get close to what Othmann is supposed to be, yes, it would a plug a huge hole.

In reality, we have no idea what Othmann is at the NHL level.
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Which is why I advocate for letting him have a full year in Hartford without interruption. While those attributes have served him well in the OHL, we don't know if they'll translate to NHL type hockey.
 
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