Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[IDvsEGO]

Othmann could, Perrault probably still a ways off


He’s the anti-Grotons. Some good draft picks and some whack ass trades


Nobody calls into WFAN to talk hockey

Aside from the buch trade, what other bad trade has he made?

 

[NickyFotiu]

funny thing is most if not all of those picks are Drury guys. drury gets way to much flack, he’s done a lot of good here

Made pretty solid picks despite picking low.

 

[Savant]

Not to get off topic, but if Igor's number this season stay consistent- it's a sign that his .935 season was a career year and that .915-.916 Igor is the norm.

Don't get me wrong, that's still very good in a league that has seen average save percentage fall from .915 in the middle of last decade to a disturbing .903 this season. Who knows, we might bring the old 'quality control cutoffs' of .900 and 3.00 back soon if scoring keeps going up.

But, is it worth a long term extension, for a guy who gets injured often?

No goalies are worth big extensions

 

[Avery16]

Aside from the buch trade, what other bad trade has he made?

The Buch trade takes the cake, but there’s also Nemeth. Copp. Braun. He doesn’t get a walk on the trades and drafts Gorton made either, while he was assistant GM since 2016.

Let’s not even talk about some of the contracts he handed out.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Othmann could, Perrault probably still a ways off


He’s the anti-Grotons. Some good draft picks and some whack ass trades


Nobody calls into WFAN to talk hockey

I said WFAN caller logic, not WFAN itself. "Daniel Jones is a bum, Da Mets have no pitching, Da Yankees miss George". It's basically therapy sessions for people who are not emotionally intelligent to know anything about mental health, and offer no real factual information.

If anyone is not pleased with Lindgren, they have to say why, and offer a better alternative for a team that is in competition in a salary cap league:

-They're not going through a retool for at minimum another three years.
-They're not going to just pair Matthew Robertson with Fox.
-They don't have any LHD prospects in the pipeline.
-Most of the league is capped out or close to it this season.

Lindgren is very valuable to this team. He does not stink, and he does not suck.

Also there WAS a time when WFAN talked hockey in the late 80s/early 90s mostly during the Roger Neilson Era/Keenan's Cup year, and especially with Steve Sommers and Joe Beningo. They even did a decent amount during the dark ages. The Rangers are no longer on WFAN and once Beningo got his day gig and Sommers slowed down and became mostly a Mets therapist, Numba Won Hawse Rayzing became the most influential person in the station and wasn't a hockey guy (Russo did talk hockey when they were together).

 

[IDvsEGO]

The Buch trade takes the cake, but there’s also Nemeth. Copp. Braun. He doesn’t get a walk on the trades and drafts Gorton made either, while he was assistant GM since 2016.

Let’s not even talk about some of the contracts he handed out.

Copp was a great trade.
Braun was a solid trade
Nemeth we finally figured out that we actually wanted emberson and that’s why it was so expensive
You want to argue the nemeth signing is bad, that’s a valid point but also not a trade.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

The Buch trade takes the cake, but there’s also Nemeth. Copp. Braun. He doesn’t get a walk on the trades and drafts Gorton made either, while he was assistant GM since 2016.

Let’s not even talk about some of the contracts he handed out.

Buch and Nemeth moves both stunk.

Copp and Braun were fine. Braun was better than Nemeth in the 2022 playoffs. They were either a Ryan Strome putting the puck in an empty net away from a game 7, or Trouba not taking a nap and getting to a game 6 OT away in an ECF.

Goodrow isn't that bad given Chytil's durability. He's gone as soon as this summer and as late as next summer.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

funny thing is most if not all of those picks are Drury guys. drury gets way to much flack, he’s done a lot of good here

Drury's legacy will be defined by either the current team winning a championship or at the very least being a playoff threat the next 1-3 years, and if the drafts he has run are able to produce solid to very good NHL players to fill roles on ELCs/leep the window open the remainder of this decade.

His drafting appears to be much stronger than Gorton's so far given how there are about 4-6 guys in Hartford who are on a trajectory to fill 2nd-4th line and backup goalie roles as soon as fall 2024.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Drury's legacy will be defined by either the current team winning a championship or at the very least being a playoff threat the next 1-3 years, and if the drafts he has run are able to produce solid to very good NHL players to fill roles on ELCs/leep the window open the remainder of this decade.

His drafting appears to be much stronger than Gorton's so far given how there are about 4-6 guys in Hartford who are on a trajectory to fill 2nd-4th line and backup goalie roles as soon as fall 2024.

I don’t think his drafting is that much stronger.
I think Drury upgraded on his scouting, and gets clearer information.
The plan in 19 was zegras, the plan in 20 was lundell.
We’d have been thrilled with those two picks.
Gorton grabbed Schneider, miller, nils, chytil who are all clear solid picks.
Ignore Laf and Kakko because those are consensus picks that no gm would’ve done anything different

 

[NickyFotiu]

The Buch trade takes the cake, but there’s also Nemeth. Copp. Braun. He doesn’t get a walk on the trades and drafts Gorton made either, while he was assistant GM since 2016.

Let’s not even talk about some of the contracts he handed out.

The Buch trade in a vacuum was bad but with Laff, KK and contracts we know there were other factors in play. If he could have got a better return he would have taken it.

 

[LOFIN]

I still think if Kakko is back before the deadline he’ll be dealt for an upgrade

What kind of value do you think he has? From the POV of other teams, he's not the main piece. So we are going to pay a 1st and Kakko for a rental of top-6 winger... of who exactly?

 

[Avery16]

Copp was a great trade.
Braun was a solid trade
Nemeth we finally figured out that we actually wanted emberson and that’s why it was so expensive
You want to argue the nemeth signing is bad, that’s a valid point but also not a trade.

Disagree
Strong disagree
That the Nemeth trade had ANYthing to do with our evaluation of Emberson is ridiculous and if true is just as bad.

Buch and Nemeth moves both stunk.

Copp and Braun were fine. Braun was better than Nemeth in the 2022 playoffs. They were either a Ryan Strome putting the puck in an empty net away from a game 7, or Trouba not taking a nap and getting to a game 6 OT away in an ECF.

Goodrow isn't that bad given Chytil's durability. He's gone as soon as this summer and as late as next summer.

Braun was done and did not contribute much. Maybe it would have been worthwhile for a 5th. A 3rd was a massive overpay. Copp was an overpay too.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Disagree
Strong disagree
That the Nemeth trade had ANYthing to do with our evaluation of Emberson is ridiculous and if true is just as bad.

Coop was a middle 6 wing who slotted in perfectly, cost us a 2nd that upgraded to a first because we made the ecf. That’s a good trade. Copp was a key part of that run.
Braun was a 5th rd pick for a bottom 6 d. Any nhl player for a 5th rd pick, is a decent pickup.

What’s your example of a good trade? Because if you somehow give an example of erat for forsberg, those don’t exist and you have to give value to get.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Nice story but that aside you aren't worried that Tank is past his prime and in decline? I like Tank but I really feel we need a guy that can carry the mail. Tank does well shooting but he isn't the type of dimension we lack imo.

I'm pretty sure he's on a one year deal, and although my first preference is to get the kids up here to get some looks, I'd be more open to bring Vlad back then what else is likely to be out there. He walks at end of year but brings some firepower to the lineup, plays with an edge as we know, and is a big time locker room fit. All good vibes for a team charging to playoffs. Doesn't scream of trying to break the wheel and make it better.

Also, they said the same of him before coming here. Maybe being washed. I think he probably needs the right environment to be motivated. Not a great overall trait but NYC was clearly a big motivator. IMO he held out as long as he could to possibly come back to the Rangers but ended up in Ottawa as a next best option.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

The Buch trade takes the cake, but there’s also Nemeth. Copp. Braun. He doesn’t get a walk on the trades and drafts Gorton made either, while he was assistant GM since 2016.

Let’s not even talk about some of the contracts he handed out.

Braun was a fine trade. Nemeth made sense, but it's like he forgot to play hockey once he got here and he was also not a trade, but a signing. The Copp trade was good.

 

[Kendo]

On the 4th line yes

AAAA guys are fine on the 3rd line too. If you can tear up the AHL, then you can provide a bit more offense than a typical NHL 4th liner. Those guys usually get bumped for younger players, but that's fine too.

After watching todays game it’s blatantly obvious that we need another RW.

Krieder and zib have been atrocious 5 on 5 this season. I’d hope we go back to tro between panarin and laf tomorrow.

This is a Stanley cup contender right now, we need to add a dynamic player to take wheelers spot.

Kreider-zib-new RW1
Panarin-tro-laf
Cuylle-chytil-kakko

The 4th line can be a combo of bonino/vesey/goodrow/wheeler/pitlick/brodz

We have basically $0 to spend on a 1RW. Wheeler was supposed to be the guy to stabilize the right side with 13 and 24. With KK injured and Wheeler floundering a bit, RW is the glaring hole in the lineup. If Fil is out longer than we all hope, then 3C becomes an issue as well. But again, if neither injury is season-ending, then we have no space to work with without disrupting another spot on the team. If ANY team is willing to take Goodrow (well, any team not on his list), then we can start talking about how to spend $3m or $4m.

Let’s say that Kakko doesn’t get traded.

Let’s say he misses most of the season with the injury but comes back for like final 10 games and playoffs.

What kind of contract is he actually looking at? Chytil deal? Less? 1 year deal? If he takes 1 year does he go to UFA or is he still RFA?

It's a nightmare season for Kakko, but this all but guarantees that he takes a lower one-year deal while still being RFA at the end. There's a silver lining there despite how painful it's been. Laf is breaking out with another year at pennies on the dollar, and KK will likely remain a discount for one more season before an even bigger jump in the cap.

We are flush with wingers in the system, so Wheeler walks and is pretty easily replaced. Berard and Sykora are "tiny monsters" that can play a 4th line style game as soon as next season, so Pitlick is easily replaced as well.

I don't think we should trade anybody, but if there's any question about Chytil's long term health, then I'd look to make a play for Pinto. He's the right age, ability, and position for our road map. He's one of my only targets. Even with a healthy Chytil next season, one of them can slide to wing, Cuylle can slot down to the 4th line and get the first injury promotion to the top 9, and Otter can be a 3rd line fixture (if not 1RW).

 

[McRanger92]

What kind of value do you think he has? From the POV of other teams, he's not the main piece. So we are going to pay a 1st and Kakko for a rental of top-6 winger... of who exactly?

I think a smart team would look at him as a buy low top 6 option, so I think he still has value. I think he could reach his potential on a team that can give him a big role but isn’t so concerned about wins and losses

I believe I mentioned this when it happened, but I ran into Tank at my hotel when I was down for the playoff game last year. I was with my girlfriend and we were heading out early in the day for drinks. Not another soul knew who he was haha. You could tell his wife enjoyed seeing a fan love running into him. I think they definitely felt at home as Rangers. I'd welcome him back with open arms.

One of my favorite players since coming into the league.

Vladdy is one of few guys on the market who can swing a playoff series if he gets hot shooting the puck.

 

[Avery16]

Coop was a middle 6 wing who slotted in perfectly, cost us a 2nd that upgraded to a first because we made the ecf. That’s a good trade. Copp was a key part of that run.
Braun was a 5th rd pick for a bottom 6 d. Any nhl player for a 5th rd pick, is a decent pickup.

What’s your example of a good trade? Because if you somehow give an example of erat for forsberg, those don’t exist and you have to give value to get.

Braun scored 3 points for us in 27 GP over the RS and POs. He didn't even last a full season after leaving.

Maybe the 1st for Copp should have been conditional on winning the Cup, because he did very little for us in the ECF (tenth in team scoring for that series). Winnipeg drafted Brad Lambert with that pick and he's looking pretty good for them. Let's not forget that other 2nd and Morgan Barron. That's a steep price for a pure rental when we won just 2 games in the ECF.

Vatrano for a 4th was good.
The return for Georgiev was good.
The return for Lundkvist was good.
The Tarasenko and Mikkola rental was fine.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I don’t think his drafting is that much stronger.
I think Drury upgraded on his scouting, and gets clearer information.
The plan in 19 was zegras, the plan in 20 was lundell.
We’d have been thrilled with those two picks.
Gorton grabbed Schneider, miller, nils, chytil who are all clear solid picks.
Ignore Laf and Kakko because those are consensus picks that no gm would’ve done anything different

Zegras hurts, but Laf will better than Lundell

 

[LOFIN]

I think a smart team would look at him as a buy low top 6 option, so I think he still has value. I think he could reach his potential on a team that can give him a big role but isn’t so concerned about wins and losses

I think Kakko absolutely is an interesting player for most teams. He has proven he can score 40ish 5v5 points in this league, and he's still young enough people can remember his potential when he was drafted. I don't know if people are expecting a superstar any more, but with a bigger role, different enviroment, maybe he still has 1st line winger potential.

But teams are not stupid, they have seen him this season as well and if Drury says he's available, he is going to be treated like a 4th line winger because of his scoring. No one is taking him away from for a premium. What people really think about an asset and what said asset is perceived as are two different things.

This is why with Kakko, you have to wait and hope he figures it out. He's going to need a new contract after this season, so that's when he's going to get moved me thinks. If he's going to get moved.

The only way I can see Kakko moved during this season, is being a part of a package. That would mean Goodrow, Lindgren, Chytil or Miller. I just don't think Kakko is perceived as a main piece any more.

 

[Avery16]

Zegras hurts, but Laf will better than Lundell

Schneider is ok but I would have preferred to trade up and snag Lundell too.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Schneider is ok but I would have preferred to trade up and snag Lundell too.

i wanted Hendrix Lapierre, or really any center ever since we never ever draft any

 

[IDvsEGO]

Braun scored 3 points for us in 27 GP over the RS and POs. He didn't even last a full season after leaving.

Maybe the 1st for Copp should have been conditional on winning the Cup, because he did very little for us in the ECF (tenth in team scoring for that series). Winnipeg drafted Brad Lambert with that pick and he's looking pretty good for them. Let's not forget that other 2nd and Morgan Barron. That's a steep price for a pure rental when we won just 2 games in the ECF.

Vatrano for a 4th was good.
The return for Georgiev was good.
The return for Lundkvist was good.
The Tarasenko and Mikkola rental was fine.

Braun- Why should we care what any player ever does if they’re not on the team? I don’t care about points for the 6th/7th d.
Copp wasn’t the only one who did nothing that ecf. He wasn’t a star, he was a support piece. The problem was the stars.

 

[Avery16]

Braun- Why should we care what any player ever does if they’re not on the team? I don’t care about points for the 6th/7th d.
Copp wasn’t the only one who did nothing that ecf. He wasn’t a star, he was a support piece. The problem was the stars.

Braun- If you don’t care whether they are in fact still an NHL-level defenseman or about their performance for our team as such, you have substantially undermined your position that a 3rd round pick wasn’t an overpayment.

Copp- a 1st, a 2nd and a young, big bottom-6 forward is too much to pay to rent a “support piece” who can’t change the way a losing series is going.

Clearly, you love Drury’s trades. Ok. But a number of people here disagree.

 

[bobbop]

Tonight, we get to scout Anthony Duclair as a trade deadline pickup.