Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VII: Return of Beaver Brad
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n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
yep. thats prob his max value
but my problem is why pay him for 2 more years when we can get that same production for less with a kid on an elc deal ? were not talking 60-70 point production here. the bar is pretty low for even 4.5.
developing and playing kids on first contracts is paramount to competing in a cap world. and thats not even considering the return for nash when he's moved out to contender that believes he can make a difference come spring.
we have good young players like vesey, buch and now perhaps LA that all need minutes.
why retain nash for 2 more years ? seems like more nostalgia to me than anything else.
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
I don't get it. I have been pretty underwhelmed with Nash's Ranger career. It appears that I'm in the minority.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
Hypothetical: Nash was a FA right now. Him and Jagr are willing to sign with us for one year at 3.5 mill. Who do you sign?
THE BIG WHISTLE
Heave-Ho
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
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I wanted Nash and I'm still hopeful but I think any unbiased person would admit he has not lived up to his contract in 3 of his 5 years here. To his credit I believe Nash understands that as well.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
i would take either at that price for 1 year tbh. to me, its pretty apples to apples.
both get you @ 40 points
however, since he's already here and if we can move nash and recoup something, then that puts it solidly into the jagr column for me.
i happen to believe that nash is trending downwards rapidly and not convinced he's got another year with more than 17-20 goals in him.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
he does.
he said so himself. the injuries and missed time plus his ineffective stretches have taken a toll on him.
he knows he's paid top $$ and hasn't produced equal to that for the most part.
thats where that narrative of stuff and things comes in, the organization tries to rationalize it as though he's still very valuable even when he cant score.
i get it, he's a good dude but at 8 mil, not buyin it.
eye test failure.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
McD37
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2016
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Rick Nash is still very good player and he is valuable for Rangers in many ways. No reason to trade him right now. Rick Nash scored 23 goals last year in 67 games. He was 48. in goals per game and 32. in goals/60 . Add other things he brings to the table (PK, defensive game) and I do not get how you can say that losing this guy would not hurt the team. He is also the most experienced player on Rangers entering his 15. season in NHL. Maybe it is not worth 8 M (I think people really should not judge his performance sby his salary as it is natural for 33 years old not to produce as much as at his peak) but still worth a lot and management agrees.
BobMarleyNYR
Rangers future on D
If Nash was UFA he'd get 4 yrs @ around 6M somewhere else and `4.5-5M here for 2 or 3 years.
The CAD is roaring against the USD, I heard that their central bank just today raised the rate. Everyone say that currencies are just a zero sum game and it's true, it's only a matter of which timeframe.
The Cap has negatively been affected by the CAD for three straight years. Now it's up over 10%, dived that with 3 and you get the direct impact on HRR. In other words HRR will be up 3% from outside factors alone before the season even started, unless he currency movement heads in another direction. The curve is heading straight up, has it stopped here? Will the USD turn on a dime if T gets something done?
The NHL and NHLPA has executed the inflators every season, except when there has been special circumstances. And the last years -- they have deemed it to be special circumstances. If the loonie is going up, and we get a cap that is plus 5% without the inflator, will they bury the practice to use it for good? To cut down on escrow deductions?
How will Vegas impact the cap? I just don't believe that much in them. We will see.
Putting my finger in the air, I wouldn't expect a big raise for the Cap, but maybe not as minor as we have seen the last years either. I.e., wouldn't bet on us exceeding 80m, but maybe 78-79. Don't think it will be 76-77m. And like let's say the NHLPA does use the -- full -- inflator and the CAD gets closer to 0.9 than 0.8 per USD we are not talking about a 79-80m cap. We are talkin 82-83m cap starting next season. And even if that is not my bet, I don't think either scenario is all that unlikely.
Undoubtedly a big Cap gain should be huge for us. It will be interesting to follow this season, will impact Gorton's room to maneuver next summer a lot.
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BBKers
Registered User
The CAD is roaring against the USD, I heard that their central bank just today raised the rate. Everyone say that currencies are just a zero sum game and it's true, it's only a matter of which timeframe.
The Cap has negatively been affected by the CAD for three straight years. Now it's up over 10%, dived that with 3 and you get the direct impact on HRR. In other words HRR will be up 3% from outside factors alone before the season even started, unless he currency movement heads in another direction. The curve is heading straight up, has it stopped here? Will the USD turn on a dime if T gets something done?
The NHL and NHLPA has executed the inflators every season, except when there has been special circumstances. And the last years -- they have deemed it to be special circumstances. If the loonie is going up, and we get a cap that is plus 5% without the inflator, will they bury the practice to use it for good? To cut down on escrow deductions?
How will Vegas impact the cap? I just don't believe that much in them. We will see.
Putting my finger in the air, I wouldn't expect a big raise for the Cap, but maybe not as minor as we have seen the last years either. I.e., wouldn't bet on us exceeding 80m, but maybe 78-79. Don't think it will be 76-77m. And like let's say the NHLPA does use the -- full -- inflator and the CAD gets closer to 0.9 than 0.8 per USD we are not talking about a 79-80m cap. We are talkin 82-83m cap starting next season. And even if that is not my bet, I don't think either scenario is all that unlikely.
Undoubtedly a big Cap gain should be huge for us. It will be interesting to follow this season, will impact Gorton's room to maneuver next summer a lot.
I was just in Vegas a week ago and met a bunch of people "in the Know". There is a huge interest for that hockey team there right now. That much is for sure. Where it ends, nobody knows. Entertainment is taking over gambling there. The casinos are having a hard time with the online sites many say. A whole new ball game
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I've been mostly underwhelmed and disappointed. I've been particularly hard on him at times.
With that said, I also recognize that what he does bring is still not an easy thing to replace and that talk of moving him or replacing him doesn't really take that into account that you need to find someone else to bring what he brings - even it is is only 50-75 % of what one feels he should be bringing.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
Yup, I agree. I would definitely be game for trading Nash at the deadline for the right return if we knew that he wasn't willing to come down closer to the 4 mill range (or if we were somehow outside the playoff picture). Just wanted to see if ODC would admit that, in a vacuum, Nash is a better player right now than Jagr. He did not.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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Jagr hands down solely because of his health the last two years compared to nash
- Aug 5, 2010
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Who promotes a fairy tale that resigning Nash would result in blocking a young prospect, limiting ice time, development etc and who'd be a cheaper option?
Look at the roster: after Kreider, Zuke, Miller and hopefully Buch (certainly with a risk factor on the latest one), who's next? Ok, Vesey with even bigger question mark. Who else that would be at Nash's level and cheaper than $4.5?
Look at the roster: after Kreider, Zuke, Miller and hopefully Buch (certainly with a risk factor on the latest one), who's next? Ok, Vesey with even bigger question mark. Who else that would be at Nash's level and cheaper than $4.5?
1. I want to undo some of the damage from the excesses of EStaal, Clowe, etc and give Gorton and Clark more ammo to work with. Benefit of that outweighs keeping Nash for now, esp at 7.8.
2. If, after we pocketed a rental return, Nash wants to come back, and he has not fallen apart physically, I am, then and in that event, open to his return; however, must be 1 yr at a time only, and he has to cough up a big hometown discount. He made his millions already. That is the price of Gotham.
very interesting and I am too focused otherwise to break this down to the nth degree. However, these are bottom lines for me...
1. I am not saying Nash will need to retire within X years. I am saying we are carrying Staal and Hank, whether deserved or undeserved, as big salaries, along with Nash, and we need cap to extend all our young core at the minimum amt per year. Thus, the higher ANY player commands, the more they become a luxury. Now, if a guy is SUPER productive, then that could offset the luxury, especially if that contract leans to less pay than more. But we do not want to take risk, esp. under these circumstances.
I am happy to pay Kreider what he makes esp for what he actually produces, plus upside. I would not pay Nash a comparable amount today for what he is delivering today, or likely to deliver tomorrow.
2. We do not want another Richards, which means at a certain age range, you err on the side of caution and give out smaller, preferably minimum term deals.
In Nash's case, either let him walk to better deals and don't tame any risk, or, if he will play cheaply enough, do 1 yr at a time
Long term deal for too much $ is foolish.
And again, should deal now for assets. Build.
We don't have to be so fast to slot 4.5m when we may be able to get by with less.
Also, aside from possibility of Grabner, Andersson and Chytil are candidates next/succeeding year.
So the cap takes in mind not just the F squad, but also D and G. If you've got Vesey and Grabner getting third line minutes, then you should start trying to lock up your RFAs before selling the farm for Nash's retirement tour
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
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Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
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Yup.
Not surprised odc is saying Jagr. He'd take Stu Bickel at 3.5 over Nash. Lisin too.
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