Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VII: Now with less frenzy!

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Disagree about post-1/1 being an arbitrary sample.

First of all, this isn't some random, cherry-picked ten-game stretch; it's more than half a season.
Secondly, the team that played those games is closer to the current roster than the team that played pre-1/1.
Lastly, it's the most recent sample.

Obviously, there's the potential for more with a new coach, the progress of the kids, and a healthy Shattenkirk, but I think the results post-1/1 are pretty telling...

 

[Ghost of jas]

In regards to Andersson and Chytil, I’m not convinced both were ok make the team out of camp. But, if they eventually force themselves into the lineup at some point, IMO, it’s more likely to force trades of Hayes and Zuccarello, thereby not necessarily upgrading the depth.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I don't know about the others but I know Colorado got rid of Roy (62.3CA60 in 15-16) and then immediately put up a 53.1CA60 the following October and a 55.3 through November so it didn't take any time there their defensive play improved instantly.

And Colorado was still the worst team in the league that year.

 

[SA16]

And Colorado was still the worst team in the league that year.

Well yea Calvin Pickard isn't Henrik Lundqvist, They had an .899 save percentage as a team Lundqvist's career worst is .910.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Well yea Calvin Pickard isn't Henrik Lundqvist, They had an .899 save percentage as a team Lundqvist's career worst is .910.

So the Rangers aren’t likely to be the worst team in the league. Bottom five is still likely though.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm not going to argue that. Hanks play (which really for me is indicative he's going to be an effective enough goalie in his twilight years) really inspired the team in front of him that coupled with his will to win for a bit there, put them way above where they really should have been in the standings. Once AV was calling Hank out (I want to say the last time was right in the middle of January) it seemed things really went to ****.

I'm not arguing they were bad before January 1st but something clearly got even worse. I don't think this is a playoff team as constructed and I would truly hold off bringing anyone of the kids up from Hartford. Let them develop some chemistry and a winning culture together down there and go after a Cup. Let this team move forward and let everyone compete for a job going forward. I also don't think this team is as bad as some are making it out to be.

I think there's bound to be some improvements individually (I see Pionk improving, PB, Vese, Hayes, CK to an extent) and a system that will take time to get in place. It will be a rough year in general but there will be strides forward.

He didn't inspire anything, he was literally the only reason why they won most of the games they won.

The thing with goalies is when they lose it, it almost always happens over night. The defense isn't good no matter how you slice it, collectively its a bottom 5 unit, at least on paper.

More than the defense, I think the offense is going to be what holds this team back. They aren't going to score as much as we've been them accustomed to scoring.

 

[Tawnos]

There’s an awful lot of unwarranted certainty in this thread.

 

[SA16]

I don't think people understand how much AV hurt the offense and is a large reason why this team hasn't had 30 goal scorers/60 point scorers.

I posted it a few weeks back but over the last, I think 10 years it was, there had been two players who scored 70+ points while playing 17 mins or less per game (which is basically what he did to Nash).

Yes, maybe they don't have the elite talent to do so but they have not given players the opportunity to put up big numbers so you don't know for sure. I certainly wouldn't rule it out for Zibanejad or maybe even Buchnevich if given a chance.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Under AV's tenure, they finished top 10 in scoring every year except for his first season (which was an aberration with that group, they were better than that) and the last one (where they legit sucked.)

They were great as far as their GF:GA ratio went during 5V5 play too. A big part of that is Hank because his system was so stupid as far as the defense goes, but I can't buy that he was holding back the offense when the team was as productive as they were collectively.

Our strength as a team wasn't necessarily having that one super duper elite guy anyway. He didn't exist here under AV save for Nash in 2014-15.

 

[SA16]

I don't see "finishing top 10 in scoring" and "holding back the offense" to be mutually exclusive at all. His deployment of his top offensive players was objectively bad. No player scores a ton of points when given usage that he gave his players. Maybe they would have finished top five in scoring every year instead with someone else.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

In AV's middle years they finished 3rd, 7th and 4th in goals per game.

Being able to come at teams in waves and have depth up front that ate lower pairing defensemen alive is what really drove the offense for this team. If you played the top line more, they would have likely seen the other team's top D more, which would have likely hurt their overall production instead of helping it.

Perhaps you would see Nash with an 80+ point season in 2014-15, but that would have come at the expense of someone else.

 

[Inferno]

And if Shattenkirk gets injured again? I also believe they were under .500 after the trade deadline. As for the time period, it’s a little t more representative with regards to the current lineup.

How is it more representative? They had Miller mcd Nash and grabner. DeAngelo and pionk weren't there shatty was hurt kreider was hurt wasn't zibanejad hurt?

It's amazing @jas . You'll only assume the worst and never acknowledge that it's entirely possible for the like...average case scenario to happen. A few injuries here and there but nothing crippling. A hall of fame goalie being very good but not necessarily hall of fame anymore, and a decent offense and a defense with holes play...ok hockey. They lose a lot but win their fair share. They're not as bad as a bunch of teams but are far worse than others.


You want to compare the absolute worst case for the rangers to the best case of their opponents. I'd prefer to compare what they actually are to what their opponents are.

 

[LORDE]

We need to see the NYR system do well at Traverse City and then The Wolfpack as well... until those happen I don't see how the NYR will be any better than bottom 5 with this roster.

 

[Ghost of jas]

How is it more representative? They had Miller mcd Nash and grabner. DeAngelo and pionk weren't there shatty was hurt kreider was hurt wasn't zibanejad hurt?

It's amazing @jas . You'll only assume the worst and never acknowledge that it's entirely possible for the like...average case scenario to happen. A few injuries here and there but nothing crippling. A hall of fame goalie being very good but not necessarily hall of fame anymore, and a decent offense and a defense with holes play...ok hockey. They lose a lot but win their fair share. They're not as bad as a bunch of teams but are far worse than others.


You want to compare the absolute worst case for the rangers to the best case of their opponents. I'd prefer to compare what they actually are to what their opponents are.

No, I’m not looking at the Rangers through rose-colored glasses and assuming everything will go right.

 

[NYR Viper]

The thing that most fan bases rarely consider prior to a season is injuries. This Rangers team may be the shallowest we have been in quite some time at key positions.

If Hayes or Zibanejad miss any significant amount of time this team will really struggle. As is, they don't really have a set #3 or #4 center.

Is Skjei or Shattenkirk miss any significant amount of time they will really struggle. Outside of those (2)s they don't have a solid, consistent top-4 defenseman.

If Hank misses any significant amount of time they have no true NHL back-up. Georgiev looked good in a small sample last season but that's not a sure thing.

If Kreider misses any significant amount of time, the team's LW depth is absurdly bad.

This all assumes that none of the guys we currently see are traded as well.

 

[Fitzy]

So which D prospect do we think challenges for the big club first- Lindgren or Hajek? (Assuming ADA and Pionk are already there)

 

[Irishguy42]

So which D prospect do we think challenges for the big club first- Lindgren or Hajek? (Assuming ADA and Pionk are already there)

Gut says Hajek, but I think they'll give Lindgren a shot first b/c they'll want to 100% make sure Hajek isn't rushed, since he was prized piece of the McDonagh trade.

 

[TheTakedown]

I don't know about the others but I know Colorado got rid of Roy (62.3CA60 in 15-16) and then immediately put up a 53.1CA60 the following October and a 55.3 through November so it didn't take any time there their defensive play improved instantly.

This is a good point. Roy's system is AV's on Steroids. You want to talk about bad shots against numbers? Roy's 15-16 avalanche was SO bad in that department.

 

[TheTakedown]

I'm not going to argue that. Hanks play (which really for me is indicative he's going to be an effective enough goalie in his twilight years) really inspired the team in front of him that coupled with his will to win for a bit there, put them way above where they really should have been in the standings. Once AV was calling Hank out (I want to say the last time was right in the middle of January) it seemed things really went to ****.

I'm not arguing they were bad before January 1st but something clearly got even worse. I don't think this is a playoff team as constructed and I would truly hold off bringing anyone of the kids up from Hartford. Let them develop some chemistry and a winning culture together down there and go after a Cup. Let this team move forward and let everyone compete for a job going forward. I also don't think this team is as bad as some are making it out to be.

I think there's bound to be some improvements individually (I see Pionk improving, PB, Vese, Hayes, CK to an extent) and a system that will take time to get in place. It will be a rough year in general but there will be strides forward.

I loathe AV for those actions. What an asshole

 

[Ghost of jas]

The thing that most fan bases rarely consider prior to a season is injuries. This Rangers team may be the shallowest we have been in quite some time at key positions.

If Hayes or Zibanejad miss any significant amount of time this team will really struggle. As is, they don't really have a set #3 or #4 center.

Is Skjei or Shattenkirk miss any significant amount of time they will really struggle. Outside of those (2)s they don't have a solid, consistent top-4 defenseman.

If Hank misses any significant amount of time they have no true NHL back-up. Georgiev looked good in a small sample last season but that's not a sure thing.

If Kreider misses any significant amount of time, the team's LW depth is absurdly bad.

This all assumes that none of the guys we currently see are traded as well.

Thank you. This is exactly what I've been saying. Thus what happened last year and why the Rangers were so awful after January 1. Gorton has not improved the depth. I'm not expecting an injury-free season.

 

[Kovalev27]

it would not surprise me if rykov ends up being the best dman we acquired at the deadline. not saying that he is for sure just saying it would not surprise me if he comes over and becomes the best guy. I think he's definitely better than lindgren now. im just not sure how good hajek will be. he could be very good. if his offense doesn't come around I could see rykov being better.

 

[I Eat Crow]

The Islanders Canucks senators and habs are all worse.

I don't know about the Canucks. But I agree that Ottawa, Islanders, and Montreal will definitely finish below us. Puts us right in the 4th fo 7th place wheelhouse.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’m not even sure about the islanders. Those who point to our coaching change as to while we will improve always fail to acknowledge theirs.

JT is a big, big loss but hey finally have an adult behind the bench who knows how to squeeze our 2-1 wins.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So which D prospect do we think challenges for the big club first- Lindgren or Hajek? (Assuming ADA and Pionk are already there)

Lindgren.

This staff is going to love him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Lindgren.

This staff is going to love him.

I have to remind myself constantly that Lindgren is American haha. Every time I want to call him Rasmus (Rasmus Lindgren was a Swedish footballer I was a fan of, when he played for Ajax)