Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VII: Now with less frenzy!

[RangerBoy]

I do income taxes and this conversation is far more nuanced than the Cap Friendly calculator.

First of all. Last I checked, Brooklyn is part of New York City. While the Islanders do pay NYC tax on Brooklyn game days, they do not pay it on most days because all of the players live and practice on Long Island.

Westchester is not however part of NYC and when the Rangers work at their practice facility and if they live outside of The City, that can be reasonably excluded as a non NYC work day. Tax experts look for every last loophole like this.

There is a mechanism under Canadian tax law where players who do not live in Canada year round can significantly reduce their taxes. I am not familiar enough to fully explain the law but agents and tax experts know how to structure contracts accordingly.

And finally, the cap on deductibility of state taxes on federal incime will become a huge issue starting with tax year 2018. It will create an even bigger disparity.

The bottom line though is that the tax issue is very relevant, the problem is getting bigger due to the federal tax law changes and the teams need to petition the league to address this disparity when the next negotiation with the players happens.

How do the NHL and NHLPA deal with this issue? It's too complex.

 

[bobbop]

How do the NHL and NHLPA deal with this issue? It's too complex.

There are plenty of tax experts much smarter than me who would be happy to take your money and craft a solution.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

How do the NHL and NHLPA deal with this issue? It's too complex.

For the casual fan, sure. But the NHL and teams have the resources to hire people to deal with this. I am dealing with a similar thing due to a lot of business trips to other countries. There are a lot of rules and exceptions to take into account but my employer has a massive HR department to support its employees with this.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm sure there are some solutions to the tax differences, but there are never going to be solutions to some markets just being more attractive than the others even if everything else is "fair"

Trying to compensate for cost of living, endorsement opportunities, side business opportunities, etc, which are going to be pretty difficult to factor in. Some markets just have weather or travel that is easier or appeals to more of the players.

 

[kovazub94]

There are plenty of tax experts much smarter than me who would be happy to take your money and craft a solution.

It's taxes AND don't forget the cost of leaving. Would be pretty easy to adjust by using indexing but then it will be a nightmare for NHL to deal with transfers, trades, buyouts etc.

 

[kovazub94]

And licks his opponents like Marchand.

Not just opponents.

 

[kovazub94]

Great puck chaser.

And is not a puck hog.

 

[Tawnos]

Personally I think the whole tax issue is overblown. A Florida team sees a slight tax savings, but not nearly enough to give them a fundamental competitive advantage when accounting for all factors.

 

[Savant]

https://nypost.com/2018/07/31/rangers-gm-completes-internal-housecleaning-with-this-signing/

According to this, Spooner's cap hit is "reasonable" and Namestnikov's cap hit is "hefty"

They are on identical deals.

There is other stuff in there too but I stopped paying attention once I read that

 

[Fitzy]

https://nypost.com/2018/07/31/rangers-gm-completes-internal-housecleaning-with-this-signing/

According to this, Spooner's cap hit is "reasonable" and Namestnikov's cap hit is "hefty"

They are on identical deals.

There is other stuff in there too but I stopped paying attention once I read that

All that means is that he thinks Spooner is worth more.

 

[RangerBoy]

For the casual fan, sure. But the NHL and teams have the resources to hire people to deal with this. I am dealing with a similar thing due to a lot of business trips to other countries. There are a lot of rules and exceptions to take into account but my employer has a massive HR department to support its employees with this.

TB gave McDonagh $6.75M AAV. It would have taken nearly ~$8M for the Rangers to sign McDonagh if they wanted to keep him. How does the NHL and NHLPA bridge the difference in cap hits? It's not just the tax implications.

 

[Savant]

All that means is that he thinks Spooner is worth more.

Debatable, but stupid writing either way.

 

[RangerBoy]

Craig Custance spoke to Brian MacLellan about why the Capitals won

There are a lot of ways to win hockey games. There are also a lot of ways to build a team that can contend for a Stanley Cup. But when chatting about the blueprint that tends to work the best, Capitals GM Brian MacLellan said there’s usually one common thread.

“You’re always, forever going to want depth down the middle. You want to be as strong as you can,” MacLellan told The Athletic on Monday. “Those teams have always won. A great one-two punch. A good three and four. I don’t think it’s ever changed.”

1. Great centers
2. A game breaker
3. Offensive defensemen
4. A core hardened by the playoffs
5. Size

No mention of having an elite goaltender. The Rangers best player is their goaltender and how many times have won with their goaltender being the best player on the team.

Custance is looking at how all of the teams stack up using that criteria.

NEW YORK RANGERS

1. Great centers – Even when the Rangers were at their peak in recent years, this was always a bit of a disadvantage. They had good but not great centers. The hope has to be that this rebuild lands them one at some point.
2. A game breaker – Nope. Like the Islanders, this is another team that should be in full-on pursuit of Panarin.
3. Offensive defensemen – Kevin Shattenkirk qualifies. Brady Skjei has a great mix of size and skill. He’s an important building block for this defense, but they still need a few more pieces on this front to get a check mark for Cup contention.
4. A core hardened by the playoffs – The Rangers are slowly losing the players who accumulated the playoff experience together. Most of it is in Tampa. But as long as Henrik Lundqvist and his wealth of experience is around, you have to give them at least half credit here.
5. Size – There’s size up front in the form of Kevin Hayes, Chris Kreider and Jimmy Vesey. Skjei and Marc Staal provide it on the back end. For what it’s worth, there are players with a nice mix of size and skill on the Rangers roster.
Total – 1.5 out of 5. There’s still a lot of work to be done on the Rangers’ rebuild, one still in the early stages.

Stanley Cup blueprint: How the Metropolitan teams stack up...

The Rangers need so many things. They need everything. The rebuild is just starting. They don't need to spend $70M on Panarin when the team is rebuilding. Some of those players Custance mentioned won't even be on the team when the Rangers are good enough to win again.

 

[Thirty One]

All that means is that he thinks Spooner is worth more.

Likely because there's one UFA year in there, too.

 

[Thirty One]

By far the craziest thing in that article was Hayes as the 4th line center in the projected lineup.

 

[Tawnos]

By far the craziest thing in that article was Hayes as the 4th line center in the projected lineup.

If something like that were the lineup, I’d expect that even strength time would break down more or less evenly between “2nd” and “4th”

 

[TheTakedown]

Craig Custance spoke to Brian MacLellan about why the Capitals won



1. Great centers
2. A game breaker
3. Offensive defensemen
4. A core hardened by the playoffs
5. Size

No mention of having an elite goaltender. The Rangers best player is their goaltender and how many times have won with their goaltender being the best player on the team.

Custance is looking at how all of the teams stack up using that criteria.



Stanley Cup blueprint: How the Metropolitan teams stack up...

The Rangers need so many things. They need everything. The rebuild is just starting. They don't need to spend $70M on Panarin when the team is rebuilding. Some of those players Custance mentioned won't even be on the team when the Rangers are good enough to win again.

Caps with Grubauer went 0-2, then switched to Holtby and went 16-8... If Holtby doesn't make that save in Game 2, they probably don't win the cup.

You need a goalie who can regularly turn it up. Last year, Holtby was trash, and that's what cost them an ECF appearance.

You're so far against Free Agents, and yet we don't even know WHAT we have on this team. it's not even worth a discussion at this point. There's so many pieces that we need to evaluate this year before we start declaring "NO MOAR FRRE AGNENTS KAY!?"

Is Andersson like Toews or Berglund?
Is Chytil like Tarasenko or Evander Kane?
Is Kravstov like Malkin or Zherdev?
Do the mid round picks bust or surprise and surprise their way into the top 6?
Is ADA like Shattenkirk or Clendenning?

I love your posts, but for the love of god please stop parading around as if you are God. NOBODY knows the answers to these things.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Good to know good ol’ Brant is still a terrible f***ing writer and dummy

 

[LORDE]

Caps with Grubauer went 0-2, then switched to Holtby and went 16-8... If Holtby doesn't make that save in Game 2, they probably don't win the cup.

You need a goalie who can regularly turn it up. Last year, Holtby was trash, and that's what cost them an ECF appearance.

You're so far against Free Agents, and yet we don't even know WHAT we have on this team. it's not even worth a discussion at this point. There's so many pieces that we need to evaluate this year before we start declaring "NO MOAR FRRE AGNENTS KAY!?"

Is Andersson like Toews or Berglund?
Is Chytil like Tarasenko or Evander Kane?
Is Kravstov like Malkin or Zherdev?
Do the mid round picks bust or surprise and surprise their way into the top 6?
Is ADA like Shattenkirk or Clendenning?

I love your posts, but for the love of god please stop parading around as if you are God. NOBODY knows the answers to these things.

Love this post but aren't you arguing for no FA at this time?

How can you explore the UFA market when you have no clue what you need (not "you" specifically, the collective)?

I'd rather know what I'm making for dinner before heading to the supermarket.

 

[TheTakedown]

Love this post but aren't you arguing for no FA at this time?

How can you explore the UFA market when you have no clue what you need (not "you" specifically, the collective)?

I'd rather know what I'm making for dinner before heading to the supermarket.

I'm against Free Agents THIS year, and I'm not keen on trading for UFA's-to-be so that we can sign them (although if the 8th year costs an extra 2nd rounder, that's OK with me). I'm not saying all of our guys are home runs, but there's a good chance we have enough pieces to make this thing work. if Andersson, Chytil, and a couple of the mid round guys play out closer to their potential ceiling rather than their potential floor, you can't be afraid of Free Agency, especially if a guy like Panarin is there next offseason (2019). a PPG winger does not come around often, and like others have stated, he has fewer NHL miles on him

 

[haveandare]

I always think it's kind of a waste of time to emulate the previous years winner. Someone will win with a different set up and then it'll be "why aren't we built like THIS team now?!" Theres all sorts of ways to win. We don't have the talent at this point, obviously, but there's no one blueprint either.

By far the craziest thing in that article was Hayes as the 4th line center in the projected lineup.

Lol seriously, has this guy never watched this team before? That is just totally bonkers.

 

[kovazub94]

Personally I think the whole tax issue is overblown. A Florida team sees a slight tax savings, but not nearly enough to give them a fundamental competitive advantage when accounting for all factors.

TB gave McDonagh $6.75M AAV. It would have taken nearly ~$8M for the Rangers to sign McDonagh if they wanted to keep him. How does the NHL and NHLPA bridge the difference in cap hits? It's not just the tax implications.

If you are (meaning front office) competent then this is a competitive advantage to use in building a roster. Note how before Yzerman there hadn't been a lot of discussion on this for FL/TX teams.

On the other hand how do you neutralize advantages in places like NY, LA, Toronto and Chicago in terms of additional potential income from advertising?

 

[silverfish]

It's honestly so insane to me that there is this "magic blueprint" on how to build a successful team and win a cup and every year 30 teams just straight up ignore it. Bonkers!

 

[kovazub94]

Love this post but aren't you arguing for no FA at this time?

How can you explore the UFA market when you have no clue what you need (not "you" specifically, the collective)?

I'd rather know what I'm making for dinner before heading to the supermarket.

It works for both sides, though. Saying unconditional "no" to next year's UFAs at this point is just as silly.

Taking Custance's approach if Chytil continues to show signs of becoming #1 center and Zibanejad finally stays healthy and fulfills lofty expectations then how could you say no to Panarin (on a reasonable deal, of course)?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

It's honestly so insane to me that there is this "magic blueprint" on how to build a successful team and win a cup and every year 30 teams just straight up ignore it. Bonkers!

Agreed.

So much of a rebuild is based on things that will not be clear until time has passed by - trying to have some “oh, do dis in year 1 and den in year 4 do dis and we’re all done!!!” BS “blueprint” is literally pointless. It isn’t based in reality, it’s a fantasy land scenario.