Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXIV

[Rangers in 7]

Because he’s been f***ing awful for 97% of his career so far and I’m tired of people making constant excuses for him just like they did with Lias Andersson.

And honestly I think I have a higher opinion of him than most of you considering how low the bar has been set around here.

Hot take, hot take

 

[archanfelnsx]

The most I’d do got PLD is

Chytil+Krav/Lundkvist+1st rounder

I think that’s a pretty fair package CBJ gets a NHLet with potential to be a 2C. A blue chip prospect and a 1st round pick.

Some cap will have to go to CBJ to help offset the $5M AAV of PLD, they’d have to take Strome or DeAngelo

 

[Richard Banger]

Some cap will have to go to CBJ to help offset the $5M AAV of PLD, they’d have to take Strome or DeAngelo

Or maybe Smith and another low budget player

 

[smoneil]

The most I’d do for PLD is

Chytil+Krav/Lundkvist+1st rounder

I think that’s a pretty fair package CBJ gets a NHLer with potential to be a 2C. A blue chip prospect and a 1st round pick.

I'd think Strome would have to be included just to make the cap work. That, plus the concern about losing one or both of Zib (cap casualty) or PLD (Montreal casualty) would make me want to hold on to Chytil if at all possible. I'd do Strome, Lundkvist, and MAYBE the first (but with protection).

 

[aufheben]

He's 19 years old and didn't hop on a plane and run home mid-season. People being pissed of that a teenager doesn't come pre-developed are exactly the reason why it was always said that NY could never rebuild. That the fans didn't have the patience for it. The hard part isn't acquiring talent--it's being patient while that talent develops.

People flipping out about his ice-time on a period-by-period basis and fretting over ruining Lafreniere after 3 f***ing games.

You’re right. People don’t have the patience.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'd pass on PLD here because there is an inevitable train wreck season in Buffalo that is likely going to be the last straw for a certain player. I feel like the writing is on the wall with this one.

Can see the same for a certain guy in Edmonton too. This dude would undoubtedly cost a f***ing truck load, but we'd wish we kept some of those guys that others are throwing into a PLD deal like they're f***ing chumps.

My opinion on acquiring PLD would change if you can get him for less than market value, but Jarmo isn't that kind of guy.

I've had the same mindset with regards to preferring to wait to see how the Eichel situation shakes out for a few reasons. However given there's no guarantee Eichel actually ever becomes available and the prospect of having a top 6 with Zibanejad and PLD for this season and next at a minimum makes me think if the cost is reasonable and Columbus is willing to make a deal within the division we should strike.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'd do Strome, Lundkvist, and MAYBE the first (but with protection).

Not anywhere close

Strome has zero value aside from a matching salary

 

[aufheben]

And if Kakko is playing as well as everyone here believes, then what’s the problem to begin with?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The most I’d do for PLD is

Chytil+Krav/Lundkvist+1st rounder

I think that’s a pretty fair package CBJ gets a NHLer with potential to be a 2C. A blue chip prospect and a 1st round pick.

I can see Krav being someone that Jarmo really likes. I've felt that with any big acquisition they make, Nils being gone is a given.

He's 19 years old and didn't hop on a plane and run home mid-season. People being pissed of that a teenager doesn't come pre-developed are exactly the reason why it was always said that NY could never rebuild. That the fans didn't have the patience for it. The hard part isn't acquiring talent--it's being patient while that talent develops.

Yeah basically this.

The hyperbole of "hes been terrible for 97% of his career" and "HES ALWAYS GASSED AT THE END OF HIS SHIFS!" is the shit thats annoying. He got run over by the struggle bus last year, but before that he was having a very strong rookie season - That was at least a quarter of an NHL year.

He was good in the bubble (which is like a bat signal for some) and he's started strong this year. I don't understand the hate.

I'm sure if he picks up a few points this weekend the narrative will change, but his game has been good so in all honestly, it should have started shifting already.

 

[smoneil]

People flipping out about his ice-time on a period-by-period basis and fretting over ruining Lafreniere after 3 f***ing games.

You’re right. People don’t have the patience.

When two kids are among your team's best players in period 1, and they get their minutes slashed for the rest of the game, that is a concern. Especially with high-end kids, they need minutes (because nobody sends top three picks to the AHL). If it were me, I'd be getting them out there on regular shifts for a couple three weeks. Then break down what they are doing right/wrong in video sessions and give them a game or two in the press box to watch guys who do those things well. Then get them back in for a regular shift etc etc. Giving them garbage time and benching them over minor issues just makes them grip the stick too tight. One of the things that most surprised me about Quinn is that--even though he was a college coach--he seems to do MUCH better with the 22 and over crowd than he does with the 18-21 group.

 

[duhmetreE]

My worry about Kakko is his Jekyl and Hyde gameplay.

Best way to describe it.... He either looks like he's playing with the Flu/Covid or skating under water.. we had that version mostly for last year.
-or-
he looks like the prince that was promised, see the 'Covid Cup' and the rest of his Junior career. He's all over the ice and commanding the puck.

Is the kid getting all the help he should be getting? Nutrition wise for his diabeeetus? The differences are alarming imo

 

[smoneil]

Not anywhere close

Strome has zero value aside from a matching salary

I agree, but he DID out-produce PLD last season...

I didn't say they would take it. That's just the most I would offer. I'm comfortable walking away if that gets rejected, and holding on to those pieces for a different trade.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'm happy Gorton is the gm.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think it's obvious that columbus needs to ditch torts and try and rebuild the relationship with pld. That organization isnt gonna be around long if their top players keep leaving.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I've had the same mindset with regards to preferring to wait to see how the Eichel situation shakes out for a few reasons. However given there's no guarantee Eichel actually ever becomes available and the prospect of having a top 6 with Zibanejad and PLD for this season and next at a minimum makes me think if the cost is reasonable and Columbus is willing to make a deal within the division we should strike.

Yeah this is my stance as well, except I feel that an Eichel trade is inevitable. The smoke has been bellowing there for years now and we know that they've been more than nudged by the Rangers on this topic already.

PLD at our price is fine. If he can't be had at our price, then I'd let someone else meet that value or overpay for him. I don't think he'd help us that much this year - our defense is still f***ed, our coach won't sit JJ (and even if he does sit, it's still a less than ideal group even if it has load of potential) and in general, I don't think this is the right coach for this team anymore.

I know we're in agreement that they need to take at least one legitimate shot at trying to win the whole damn thing before Lafreniere is off of his ELC. Zib+Eichel gives us a MUCH BETTER shot at doing than than Zib+PLD. Both set ups would only be possible until the end of next season anyway, I'm more than cool with waiting this one out.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Dubois just doesn't want to go to a team that got gutted to acquire him. Trying to slide into a sweet situation by sand bagging it.

 

[DanielBrassard]

He's 19 years old and didn't hop on a plane and run home mid-season. People being pissed of that a teenager doesn't come pre-developed are exactly the reason why it was always said that NY could never rebuild. That the fans didn't have the patience for it. The hard part isn't acquiring talent--it's being patient while that talent develops.

I suppose I must preface this again as to not be branded a "hater", but the following doesn't mean I think it's impossible or even improbable for Kaapo to become what the pre-draft hype expected him to become. However @aufheben in my estimation is right to be frustrated with Kakko and his criticisms have plenty of merit. t was a reasonable expectation for fans to expect that Kakko could have been pre-developed and a useful contributor last season. It wasn't that he was bad, it was that he had the worst rookie season a 2nd overall pick has had in a really long time, excepting Sam Reinhart who was sent back to juniors. Most 1st and 2nd overall picks are supposed to be pre-developed, that's why they are 1st and 2nd overall picks outside of rare exceptions. No one was asking for a finished product, just something more than being one of the worst players in the league.

 

[Cmox]

Looks a lot like Torts is gonna force the issue.

Torts is like the person you date who knows things aren’t working out but you don’t break up but they make it so hard to want to stay in the relationship. You both know it’ll never work. But they keep pushing you to make the call and act like” hey, what are you talking about. I’m trying to make it work” imagine being torts’ SO? My goodness just kill it at this point. Straying from my analogy Dubois already voiced what he wants .Now he’s basically trapped til they seem fit. He’s being punished. Oof hopefully this will all be a distant talking point for his next relationship.

 

[SA16]

I’ve thought about this and I think the whole “wait for Barkov or eichel” thing doesn’t make sense. If those guys come available then we could just make PLD the centerpiece of a deal for them. He’s not eligible for a NTCZ for year still. It probably makes them easier to acquire.

 

[EdJovanovski]

https://nypost.com/2021/01/21/alexis-lafreniere-shifts-to-rangers-first-line/

 

[smoneil]

I suppose I must preface this again as to not be branded a "hater", but the following doesn't mean I think it's impossible or even improbable for Kaapo to become what the pre-draft hype expected him to become. However @aufheben in my estimation is right to be frustrated with Kakko and his criticisms have plenty of merit. t was a reasonable expectation for fans to expect that Kakko could have been pre-developed and a useful contributor last season. It wasn't that he was bad, it was that he had the worst rookie season a 2nd overall pick has had in a really long time, excepting Sam Reinhart who was sent back to juniors. Most 1st and 2nd overall picks are supposed to be pre-developed, that's why they are 1st and 2nd overall picks outside of rare exceptions. No one was asking for a finished product, just something more than being one of the worst players in the league.

I get that. And I think for our fanbase, Kakko's season hit particularly hard, just by the fact that we'd literally never drafted that high before. We finally get one, and it looks like a flop right out the gate (also probably bringing memories of Pavel Brendl, our only OTHER top 5 draft pick at that point). But Kakko did show flashes. And the number of games he played (both NHL and other) likely took a toll. And the fact that he looked much better in the bubble (after a rest) and to start this season bodes well. I do get the frustration. Finally getting a top pick only for that kid to struggle HARD as a rookie has got to be the most "Rangers" thing ever. But I honestly think people took that and emotionalized the whole thing--took it personally. The odds are still VERY good that Kakko will develop into an excellent player. We just need to give it time (and maybe a different coach who is better at communicating).

 

[Shesterkybomb]

3 games everyone..............
3
Games

 

[smoneil]

I think it's obvious that columbus needs to ditch torts and try and rebuild the relationship with pld. That organization isnt gonna be around long if their top players keep leaving.

It might be too late for that. Dubois' teammates didn't seem all that thrilled with him in their post-game comments (a lot of guys giving non-committal responses to questions about PLD's quality as a teammate). PLD's last shift may have been intended as a way to flip the bird to Torts and Jarmo, but he ended up thumbing his nose at his teammates and their fans as well. If his teammates are taking it even half as bad as the fans, I don't see how he ever gets respected in that room again.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It might be too late for that. Dubois' teammates didn't seem all that thrilled with him in their post-game comments (a lot of guys giving non-committal responses to questions about PLD's quality as a teammate). PLD's last shift may have been intended as a way to flip the bird to Torts and Jarmo, but he ended up thumbing his nose at his teammates and their fans as well. If his teammates are taking it even half as bad as the fans, I don't see how he ever gets respected in that room again.

That's possible for sure but they need to do something, they cant be losing Panarin, Bobrovski, PLD, Duchesne etc in a matter of years.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I’ve thought about this and I think the whole “wait for Barkov or eichel” thing doesn’t make sense. If those guys come available then we could just make PLD the centerpiece of a deal for them. He’s not eligible for a NTCZ for year still. It probably makes them easier to acquire.

It's a fair point, although with his display he's pulled so far this season it makes me wonder how reluctant those teams would be to trade for him knowing he might act the same way if he was to be traded to a place he didn't want to be. Which I think Buffalo and Florida would be on that list.