Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXIV

[Synergy27]

I get that. And I think for our fanbase, Kakko's season hit particularly hard, just by the fact that we'd literally never drafted that high before. We finally get one, and it looks like a flop right out the gate (also probably bringing memories of Pavel Brendl, our only OTHER top 5 draft pick at that point). But Kakko did show flashes. And the number of games he played (both NHL and other) likely took a toll. And the fact that he looked much better in the bubble (after a rest) and to start this season bodes well. I do get the frustration. Finally getting a top pick only for that kid to struggle HARD as a rookie has got to be the most "Rangers" thing ever. But I honestly think people took that and emotionalized the whole thing--took it personally. The odds are still VERY good that Kakko will develop into an excellent player. We just need to give it time (and maybe a different coach who is better at communicating).

The issue with Kakko was, and remains, that he was touted as the most NHL ready prospect in awhile. There’s been a lot of discussion about how Kakko would out produce Hughes early in their career as Jack grew into manhood.

Getting shit on by Hughes 3 games into his second season while Kakko still looks undercooked is a rational cause for alarm.

I can buy the argument that NYC fans aren’t patient enough for real rebuilds, but when the “accelerated” rebuild enabled by lottery gifted top 2 picks still looks questionable I don’t think that’s a patience thing. It’s reasonable to expect top 2 picks to make immediate impacts, if not to inconsistently show flashes of future dominance.

Kakko’s NHL career has been a combination of him looking really bad with flashes of being a decent player. It’s reasonable to be a little worried about him.

 

[smoneil]

That's possible for sure but they need to do something, they cant be losing Panarin, Bobrovski, PLD, Duchesne etc in a matter of years.

Unfortunately, even though it's a really nice city, Columbus doesn't seem to be a destination city. Columbus needs to operate the way a feeder team operates. I get WHY they went all in a couple years ago. They needed to win a playoff series. They needed to get some element of success in their franchise history. But now that that's past, their GM needs to wake up to his reality. It was monumentally stupid not to trade Bobrovski and Panarin. They need to draft, develop top players and then trade the ones that look to be leaving in time to bring in more players. PLD is the really dangerous one, because he's still under team control. They need what he'll bring back in trade, but they also can't set the precedent that you can whine your way out of town. They're really stuck here, because no matter what they choose to do with PLD, it's the wrong decision in some way.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The issue with Kakko was, and remains, that he was touted as the most NHL ready prospect in awhile. There’s been a lot of discussion about how Kakko would out produce Hughes early in their career as Jack grew into manhood.

Getting shit on by Hughes 3 games into his second season while Kakko still looks undercooked is a rational cause for alarm.

I can buy the argument that NYC fans aren’t patient enough for real rebuilds, but when the “accelerated” rebuild enabled by lottery gifted top 2 picks still looks questionable I don’t think that’s a patience thing. It’s reasonable to expect top 2 picks to make immediate impacts, if not to inconsistently show flashes of future dominance.

Kakko’s NHL career has been a combination of him looking really bad with flashes of being a decent player. It’s reasonable to be a little worried about him.

It would be if he was 23, people seem to forget he's still 19.

 

[haveandare]

That's possible for sure but they need to do something, they cant be losing Panarin, Bobrovski, PLD, Duchesne etc in a matter of years.

Bending over for a drama queen with a terrible attitude isn’t the answer.

His play tonight was a disgrace. I don’t want this guy anywhere near this team. Cool that he can score almost 60 points as a young player, but what happens when he arbitrarily decides he doesn’t care and want to even try anymore?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Unfortunately, even though it's a really nice city, Columbus doesn't seem to be a destination city. Columbus needs to operate the way a feeder team operates. I get WHY they went all in a couple years ago. They needed to win a playoff series. They needed to get some element of success in their franchise history. But now that that's past, their GM needs to wake up to his reality. It was monumentally stupid not to trade Bobrovski and Panarin. They need to draft, develop top players and then trade the ones that look to be leaving in time to bring in more players. PLD is the really dangerous one, because he's still under team control. They need what he'll bring back in trade, but they also can't set the precedent that you can whine your way out of town. They're really stuck here, because no matter what they choose to do with PLD, it's the wrong decision in some way.

Also imo they can't be trading for futures they've built some momentum the last couple years they need to continue to be a playoff team.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I just can't believe it's the same team in this kind of situation almost perpetually.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Bending over for a drama queen with a terrible attitude isn’t the answer.

His play tonight was a disgrace. I don’t want this guy anywhere near this team. Cool that he can score almost 60 points as a young player, but what happens when he arbitrarily decides he doesn’t care and want to even try anymore?

Ive watched him since a while, there's gotta be a big issue because thats not in his character at all. It would be like Mika quitting on ny as a comparable imo.

 

[haveandare]

Ive watched him since a while, there's gotta be a big issue because thats not in his character at all. It would be like Mika quitting on ny as a comparable imo.

Then he needs to say what it is because this looks absolutely horrible.

Imagine trading Buch and Chytil, two guys who work hard and try like hell, to get a guy who doesn’t even care to try to go through the motions of playing when he’s on the ice just days after he signed an extension for reasons he won’t say a word about.

 

[haveandare]

I just can't believe it's the same team in this kind of situation almost perpetually.

This is very different imo. Guys leaving small markets when they reach ufa isn’t that unusual.

 

[BKGooner]

And CBJ lose in OT. Anyone have the ability to tune in for the post game? I bet Torts doesn’t take questions.

Maybe he drops a stop coaching Pat or an I'm not the GM.

 

[smoneil]

The issue with Kakko was, and remains, that he was touted as the most NHL ready prospect in awhile. There’s been a lot of discussion about how Kakko would out produce Hughes early in their career as Jack grew into manhood.

Getting shit on by Hughes 3 games into his second season while Kakko still looks undercooked is a rational cause for alarm.

I can buy the argument that NYC fans aren’t patient enough for real rebuilds, but when the “accelerated” rebuild enabled by lottery gifted top 2 picks still looks questionable I don’t think that’s a patience thing. It’s reasonable to expect top 2 picks to make immediate impacts, if not to inconsistently show flashes of future dominance.

Kakko’s NHL career has been a combination of him looking really bad with flashes of being a decent player. It’s reasonable to be a little worried about him.

The fact that some fans got over-excited about the "NHL ready" line and got too cocky before the draft (and to be clear, 95% of the "Kakko is better than Hughes" talk came from the cocky wing of our fanbase) isn't my problem and it isn't Kakko's problem. The kid traveled and played an absurd amount of hockey in the lead up to his rookie season. I also don't think he's been getting particularly good coaching as far as his development. Even with all these concerns, his production rate was significantly better than Hughes's last season. "But what about this season" you might ask. Hughes has already played more than twice as much hockey as Kakko this year, through just three games. People want to talk about top players playing well out the gate--top draft picks usually get a SIGNIFICANTLY longer leash to get their sea legs under them and adapt to the NHL game. DuBois, at age 20, was getting extended time on Columbus's top line with their two best wingers. You want me to be "alarmed" because Kakko, at 18, didn't set the world on fire getting 3rd line minutes, inconsistent power play time, and playing with bottom six linemates? Among the various things that might alarm me, I gotta tell you, that isn't one of them. The kid needs to be played and coached, not traded.

 

[Synergy27]

It would be if he was 23, people seem to forget he's still 19.

I disagree. You expect your top two pick to be a good player sooner than that. That’s the point. Elite level play during the ELC.

Kravtsov? Sure. Kakko and Laf don’t get five year leashes.

 

[smoneil]

Also imo they can't be trading for futures they've built some momentum the last couple years they need to continue to be a playoff team.

Dangerous mindset. They traded most of their prospects in that push a couple of years ago. They have trouble attracting free agents. They are near that point where we were circa "the letter." Are they a serious threat for the Cup? If the answer is no, are they expecting help from the farm that will MAKE them a serious threat for the Cup? If the answer is no again, then it's time to sell.

 

[Synergy27]

The fact that some fans got over-excited about the "NHL ready" line and got too cocky before the draft (and to be clear, 95% of the "Kakko is better than Hughes" talk came from the cocky wing of our fanbase) isn't my problem and it isn't Kakko's problem. The kid traveled and played an absurd amount of hockey in the lead up to his rookie season. I also don't think he's been getting particularly good coaching as far as his development. Even with all these concerns, his production rate was significantly better than Hughes's last season. "But what about this season" you might ask. Hughes has already played more than twice as much hockey as Kakko this year, through just three games. People want to talk about top players playing well out the gate--top draft picks usually get a SIGNIFICANTLY longer leash to get their sea legs under them and adapt to the NHL game. DuBois, at age 20, was getting extended time on Columbus's top line with their two best wingers. You want me to be "alarmed" because Kakko, at 18, didn't set the world on fire getting 3rd line minutes, inconsistent power play time, and playing with bottom six linemates? Among the various things that might alarm me, I gotta tell you, that isn't one of them. The kid needs to be played and coached, not traded.

I’d like to make clear that I’m not advocating a trade. I’m just saying that, regardless of however you want caveat his playing time and fitness, he has not looked good.

 

[smoneil]

I disagree. You expect your top two pick to be a good player sooner than that. That’s the point. Elite level play during the ELC.

Kravtsov? Sure. Kakko and Laf don’t get five year leashes.

It's been one (pandemic shortened) season and three games. Unclench.

 

[smoneil]

I’d like to make clear that I’m not advocating a trade. I’m just saying that, regardless of however you want caveat his playing time and fitness, he has not looked good.

Agreed. I think he's looked better his last six games (the bubble and the start to this season). I'd be curious to see how he would do with a ~20 game leash now like he had to start last season, but Quinn has his ass stapled to the end of the bench for some reason.

 

[Avery16]

PLD's last shift tonight:

Yes Kakko sounds fair.

 

[bobbop]

I think it's obvious that columbus needs to ditch torts and try and rebuild the relationship with pld. That organization isnt gonna be around long if their top players keep leaving.

It’s not how this works.

 

[BBKers]

It’s not how this works.

The owners own the Cattle Ranch and allow the players (livestock) to eat there. That's the way it's always been and that's the way it will be forever. Management and coaches are farm hands. They get to ride a horse... until the bulls get ornery. Fans are grass.

 

[jay from jersey]

Yep, still at 3:55 ice time. Torts is going to force Jarmo to trade him for less than he could get. PLD certainly isn’t gonna say, okay, fine you benched me I’ll rescind my trade request but him sitting on the bench isn’t helping Columbus or his value. Jarmo can’t be happy.

That lockeroom atmosphere must be pretty shitty. His teammates are probably thinking trade this self entitled guy already.. were trying to compete for playoffs and this situation is killing our morale. Our coach is preoccupied by it, he gets asked about it every press conference, and we don’t want to bleed and sweat with a guy that doesn’t wanna go to war with us anymore.. I can’t see how this situation drags on all year. It’s gotta be a nut punch to the players, coach, fans and front office. I can’t wait to see the package the acquires him so I can laugh my ass off at some of the names the jackets want for the good young disgruntled center

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Strome produced 10 more points than PLD last season. Better faceoff % too.

PLD+ from Strome!

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Kakko is among the non-negotiable for me so if Jarmo is aiming for that he can talk a walk

Agreed. There’s a very short list of players I’d be willing to include Kakko in a trade for at this point and those players are 99.9999% guys who will never hit the market (McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews etc). This isn’t me saying Kakko will end up on that level or anything but he’s 19 and the second highest pick we’ve ever had. If he were in year 4 right now? Okay but no.

Kakko is struggling now but it’s beyond far too early to give him up in trade. Especially not for a guy like PLD, whom I like very much, but he’s not that superstar level player.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Agreed. There’s a very short list of players I’d be willing to include Kakko in a trade for at this point and those players are 99.9999% guys who will never hit the market (McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews etc). This isn’t me saying Kakko will end up on that level or anything but he’s 19 and the second highest pick we’ve ever had. If he were in year 4 right now? Okay but no.

Kakko is struggling now but it’s beyond far too early to give him up in trade. Especially not for a guy like PLD, whom I like very much, but he’s not that superstar level player.

I don't even think Kakko is struggling. He's just not standing out. Nor is he getting much opportunity to do so.

 

[Anthony5967]

I don't think it's crazy to be concerned with Quinn's handling so far with Lias, Howden (overusing him/obsession), Chytil, Kakko, Lafreniere, etc. Fox is a beast. He has Panarin and Zibanejad too. For a college coach, he has not shown me much, to be honest.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I don't even think Kakko is struggling. He's just not standing out. Nor is he getting much opportunity to do so.

Yeah true that’s actually how I feel too. I really meant thus far in his career. I actually think he’s looked good and definitely improved this season so far. I think Quinn giving him a little boost and taking the chains off a bit and letting him build his confidence up would go a long way.