Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXIII

[smoneil]

Disagree with the valuation. PLD has more value than Zibby at the time when we made the trade, which is exactly why I brought it up. In fact, there were much more questions with how Zib would develop at the time. Clearly we hit the jackpot with Zib and at the time of trade most had no problem departing with a superb 2C like Brass. PLD will command more.

Again, I ask the question, why? I've explained why I think PLD doesn't have the kind of value people are ascribing to him here (his point totals while having superb linemates, relatively modest progression in what should be his best developmental years--particularly for a top pick, his tendency to reap the majority of his production from the bottom third of the league and how his production dries up against the top third of the league, etc).

All you've offered in return is that you disagree and that you think PLD has "more value." Why? Is it his age? His draft pedigree? The Nash-like "he'll put up more production outside of Columbus" mentality? What is it exactly that makes you think a player whose first three seasons are EERILY similar to Stepan's (similar production at the same ages and even under the same coach) has the kind of value that would normally be reserved for a player a tier or two higher than that?

 

[Fitzy]

Interesting. I must have missed his posts on Mika. Mika has been filthy for us...wonder what the thought process is with him.

Injuries and his ability to maintain this level of play into his 30s given his injury propensity

 

[broadwayblue]

I mean dominating this season is great. The question is how will be playing in year 3 of this contract when he’s in his 30s making upwards of 9 million?

That's always the unknown and why giving 6 or 7 year deals to players about to be 30 are generally not good. And I would be surprised if he got less than 10M per on his next deal....unless the cap stays flat two more years.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Really like Texier. Very underrated.
I like Dave Pagnotta and the fourth period but the article regarding the PLD rumor is taking on serious legs. People now throwing out Kakko and Chytil for PLD. I know PLD can be a very effective playoff performer at center ice but if we are trading both assets like Kakko and Chytil might as well wait and see what happens with Eichel.

The other thing to consider is that PLD would be considerably cheaper in terms of a long term contract, I think. I don't think there's any chance he sniffs $10 million on a long term deal. More like $8 to 8.5 million/year. When you have Panarin making $11 million, Zibanejad that will need a raise, and Lafreniere needing money, the Rangers need to be careful about the long term contracts and money given out. Not to mention Fox and Shesterkin. Yes, lots of cap dollars are coming off this summer and next, but they need to be careful. That cash is going to be spent quickly on locking up the young core.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

That's always the unknown and why giving 6 or 7 year deals to players about to be 30 are generally not good. And I would be surprised if he got less than 10M per on his next deal....unless the cap stays flat two more years.

Hence the hesitation. If all goes as planned the Rangers are going to have a lot of tough roster decisions ahead.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Once we move Laf to center all our problems disappear.

 

[True Blue]

I mean dominating this season is great. The question is how will be playing in year 3 of this contract when he’s in his 30s making upwards of 9 million?

At some point, you bite the bullet. As pointed out, legit top line centers do not grow on trees. Let alone two way centers that can go against the opposition's top line. The Rangers have not had this type of center in 25 years. If he shows health and again paces what he did last year pointwise, what are the chances that they find a replacement?

 

[True Blue]

Once we move Laf to center all our problems disappear.

Yeah....successful position changes are all so common

 

[TheBloodyNine]

At some point, you bite the bullet. As pointed out, legit top line centers do not grow on trees. Let alone two way centers that can go against the opposition's top line. The Rangers have not had this type of center in 25 years. If he shows health and again paces what he did last year pointwise, what are the chances that they find a replacement?

The Rangers haven’t had this type of center in 25 years. The concern is with age in injury he will no longer be that center. So if you bite the bullet on that one you end up shooting yourself in the head. Again, this isn’t just me saying this, the team also has these concerns. You pay Zib 10 mill a year, and if Laf is the real thing, how much does he get? Kakko? Fox? Shesterkin? These are their concerns. I love this player, but I’m telling you right now there’s no way in hell I go over 5 years with him.

 

[True Blue]

The Rangers haven’t had this type of center in 25 years. The concern is with age in injury he will no longer be that center. So if you bite the bullet on that one you end up shooting yourself in the head. Again, this isn’t just me saying this, the team also has these concerns. You pay Zib 10 mill a year, and if Laf is the real thing, how much does he get? Kakko? Fox? Shesterkin? These are their concerns. I love this player, but I’m telling you right now there’s no way in hell I go over 5 years with him.

I understand that. That does not change the fact that as history have shown us, there is a world of difference between a legit #1 and a 1a/b type.

 

[jay from jersey]

I agree with all that. But let's say Mika dominates again this season and next while avoiding injury. Are they really going to let him walk? That would be a side of the Rangers we rarely see.

They will if they can replace him with barkov for just cash. Or if they know they are getting barkov or Eichel you deal zibby for a player like PLD who is young, not as good as him but has potential. Rangers max will only offer Zibby 5 years. I think he knows he will get more on the open market. This is his big retirement contract coming up. Even if NYR front load the hell outta his deal, he knows he will get better term/ money/ and taxes elsewhere. This next year to year and a half we are going to see major changes taking place, some players who we think will be here as long term core pieces won’t. Others will and others will come from the outside. I have a feeling deep in my gut that Gorton wants Eichel so bad he can taste it. Having big sack jack and LaF on your first line for the next 5-6 years is insane. I think he finds his way here. But you can rule out barkov or the minute possibility of zibby taking a 5 yr deal massively frontloaded and rangers trading for a PLD type player either. Going to be very interesting

 

[Irishguy42]

Once we move Laf to center all our problems disappear.

Man, the Rangers center depth looks great.

Nieves (traded for, obviously)
Zibanejad
Strome
Lafreniere
Kakko
Kravtsov
Chytil
Howden
Barron
Blackwell
Brodzinski
Fontaine
Khodorenko
Richards

Need a few wings though...

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I understand that. That does not change the fact that as history have shown us, there is a world of difference between a legit #1 and a 1a/b type.

Don’t think I said anything to the contrary. The problem is eventually All #1 C’s become less than that, much like the guy who is the best goaltender in the league eventually gets bought out and moved on from when he became the third goalie on the team. Do the Rangers believe that his injury history will make that happen sooner rather than later? Only they know.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

NYR can afford to wait another season on the PLD situation, CBJ doesn't need to trade him right now either.

Collect another year of intel on the development and potential of our guys. See how hard PLD plays when disgruntled. You'll have more useful information.

But if PLD's development ups the asking price?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

But if PLD's development ups the asking price?

When you’re hearing names like Kakko and Zegras I don’t think it’s gonna get much higher that it is right now.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

When you’re hearing names like Kakko and Zegras I don’t think it’s gonna get much higher that it is right now.

But that' just speculation, no?

 

[rangers1314]

Columbus is looking for a 1-1 trade for a player they value as equal to PLD. They have made specific requests from a few teams. Don’t think we have the appetite to fill that request.

If they decide to go the buffet table route, then it’s game on.

Are they looking for a specific position?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

But that' just speculation, no?

Speculation, but just hearing these names being dropped says “you’re paying for what he’s gonna be in 2-3 years, not now”

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Speculation, but just hearing these names being dropped says “you’re paying for what he’s gonna be in 2-3 years, not now”

Those were names tossed out what CBJ's initial ask would be.

They also talked about how those teams would try to push the likes of Steel, Chytil and Lunderstrom (one of these things is not like the others) instead.

If we're talking tier 2 people, Chytil+Lundkvist pretty much takes Anaheim out of the convo. Steel and Chytil is probably a push (maybe slight edge to Chytil) but Lundvkist is better than all of their prospects beyond their top 2 by a pretty significant margin.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Those were names tossed out what CBJ's initial ask would be.

They also talked about how those teams would try to push the likes of Steel, Chytil and Lunderstrom (one of these things is not like the others) instead.

If we're talking tier 2 people, Chytil+Lundkvist pretty much takes Anaheim out of the convo. Steel and Chytil is probably a push (maybe slight edge to Chytil) but Lundvkist is better than all of their prospects beyond their top 2 by a pretty significant margin.

Yeah, I’m just saying they are already holding him at a high value. If he goes out and has a banger of a season I don’t think CLB is gonna suddenly ask for more because they are already asking for world. Similarly I don’t think him have a banger of a season would suddenly make the Rangers want to part with a Kakko/Laf level offer.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah, I’m just saying they are already holding him at a high value. If he goes out and has a banger of a season I don’t think CLB is gonna suddenly ask for more because they are already asking for world. Similarly I don’t think him have a banger of a season would suddenly make the Rangers want to part with a Kakko/Laf level offer.

Well if he has a top 5 in league scoring season I think that would boost his value to the point that they MIGHT get one of those players they're asking for now.

I don't foresee that happening though. They'll likely be looking to trade him during the draft.

 

[bobbop]

I can’t imagine any team at this point ready, willing and able to fulfill a 1-1 hockey deal for this player now or in the near future.

Wrong answer. The question is what player would they take 1-1. They don’t have to make a trade tomorrow. Jarmo will get what he wants or wait. And wait until he is good and ready to visit the buffet table. That’s how he got Seth Jones.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Wrong answer. The question is what player would they take 1-1. They don’t have to make a trade tomorrow. Jarmo will get what he wants or wait. And wait until he is good and ready to visit the buffet table. That’s how he got Seth Jones.

So who would be an example of a player offered that they’d take 1 for 1 that a team would legitimately give up? Asking seriously, because I’m racking my brain and can’t think of a Jones of Johansson type deal out there.

 

[kovazub94]

IMO strome would have to go the other way for the money to work and for Columbus to feel they have at least a semblance of a proven center back that can score a bit.

Knowing that, if I’m Columbus I’d want lundkvist and Kravtsov for sure.

the other option?

DeAngelo Chytil and a first round pick.

IMO both those options are better than almost anything anyone else could offer. I’d think the Rangers would push hard to include strome in any deal though.

I also don’t believe Mika is going anywhere. They will sign Mika long term I have zero doubt

I’d guess Columbus would prefer two established NHLer and one soon upcoming prospect than the other way around. Strome going the other way makes a ton of sense if Columbus would prefer the actually performance level by young Buchnevich than potential of Chytil. And get one of our D prospects too.

 

[Ola]

Glad our helmet ad is Northwell Health rather than some random corporate entity. Even as a Ranger fan from Canada, Northwell Health has been of great service to me. That health issue I've talked about here before is very rare and difficult to seek care for, I was being told to wait over a year to see specialists. But within an hour of my emailing a doctor from Northwell Health; he responded and gave me an appointment the very next morning (literally like 12 hours from the time I emailed him). And this guy is the top specialist in the entire world for this condition, he leads all the peer reviewed trials & research into this condition, and is the creator of the surgery performed for it. He was doing 3 brain surgeries the week of my appointment from the people in my support group alone. He still made that time for me.

He ordered another type of MRI for me as the one they performed here wasn't the proper one for this diagnosis, but the hospitals here were telling me it was too expensive and a waste of their resources. He contacted them again urging them to do it and they finally ordered it, it was supposed to be tomorrow but they just called me and cancelled my appointment last minute so back to the waiting list I go. In the mean time that doctor gave a support group for this condition a 2 hour long webinar today. He's also done all of this including my appointments & contacting the doctors here multiple times; for free. Once I finally get my scan I'll be sending it to him and getting his second opinion, hopefully I get answers soon. It's funny how life works out and all the little coincidences that happen along the way, I think I was meant to be a Ranger fan

Top health service is so important when you need it.

Just two month ago we discovered that my oldest son (12 y/o) had skeleton cancer (osteosarcoma) in the hip. He plays a lot of sports and trains way too much for his very lanky growing body, we thought for sure that it was muscle related. But something wasn’t quite right, it wasn’t the front or back of the thigh, he was hurting just laying still. The feeling when we started to see stuff like ‘Very strong suspicion for malignant discovery’ in his digital journal...

But now when he is in treatment it feels much better. Everything is state of the art, they shy from no expenses of course in pediatric cancer treatment. The treatment is unimaginably tough. Infections everywhere due to cell poison killing the immune system, constant horrible blisters in the mouth, fevers and so much pain. But they should fix it. It’s not 90% but it’s at least more than 50%. 30 years ago the odds would have been a lot lower.

Biggest hero in the world:

He is my biggest idol, then Laf, Kakko and Messier!