Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXIII

[GoAwayPanarin]

The situation changes when you stockpile them. Kakko would have been a non starter for me a year ago as well. Lafreniere changes that.

If you can deal Kakko for a player of similar caliber at a position of need, you should at least consider it.

Until LA puts Byfield/Turcotte on the Table, Anaheim puts Zegras/Drysdale on the table, Winnipeg stops being in Winnipeg, Carolina pulls the okie doke and pivots from Laine with Necas (even then, hes more Chytil level than Kakko level) or Montreal makes Kotkaniemi available, Kakko shouldn't even be under consideration.

Even if one or more of those things happens, I'm not sure that its worth it but point is there is no reason to bid against air. Thats Chiarelli stuff.

 

[Fitzy]

Well i mean we’re not the only team interested

If he's moved elsewhere so be it. I don't think this team is in a position yet where we need to jump the gun on potential deals. More players will be available in the future, PLD is a great player but it isn't like Eichel hitting the market, he's not a 'must get' in my book.

 

[True Blue]

Zac Jones is a LHD, and only plays on the right side occasionally when there is a need to.

I think he's a pretty solid candidate for the third pairing LHD. He's having a great season.

Possibly. One thing that I strongly believe is that if DeAngelo can go out and play on left while taking yet another step forward and pacing for 70+ points, then everything changes.

As of now, Lindgren has one spot. Prospects like Miller and Robertson (unless traded) are ahead of Jones.

 

[True Blue]

Yeah, and if I win the Power Ball this week, and Mega Millions next week, and Publisher's Clearing house the week after, I'll need to rethink my current job.

You think that chances of DeAngelo developing further are 1 in 3 trillion?

 

[True Blue]

@True Blue and @Mac n Gs

stepan was a number one center for the rangers that doesn’t make him a bonafide star. I don’t think he will be better then zib and likely you’d be replacing zib with him. Idk he’s a good young player but like I’ve said before I don’t think it fits our timeline to make the trade now

I could be wrong and an idiot. It’s definitely happened multiple times before

PLD? I am not so sure that Columbus and the Rangers make for good trading partners. I also think that if ZBad goes out and has a fairly healthy year and paces what he did last year, he is going to make a strong case case to be resigned.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Well i mean we’re not the only team interested

Of the teams interested and are realistic landing spots, we're probably the best positioned to make a move.

This applies in terms of top level assets and ones a rung below that, Carolina could get creative with some shit too but they aren't exactly a big stage and I don't know if they're even interested anyway.

LA and Anaheim have nothing between them that is on their roster with NHL experience that is worth writing home about except Sam Steel (ANA) who is pretty good. Ditto Montreal depending on Kotkaniemi's availability.

My interest in PLD remains steady until someone wants to get stupid, then I'm out.

 

[McSauer]

You think that chances of DeAngelo developing further are 1 in 3 trillion?

Nah just a lotta hypotheticals...all of which I hope do come true!

 

[NYRKing]

I think people are underestimating the PLD value all over HF.

Including Kakko sounds like too much but imo Lumbus can get that type of player/prospect in a one for one deal.

Let’s all remember how the Zbad trade worked out for us. PLD is on a higher curve than Zbad ATM, so I’m down to pony up especially given his age and position (says every GM as well).

 

[True Blue]

Nah just a lotta hypotheticals...all of which I hope do come true!

They are. But give that he just started to take off in the last year and a half, it is entirely probable that we have not yet seen all that DeAngelo has to offer

 

[True Blue]

PLD is on a higher curve than Zbad ATM, so I’m down to pony up especially given his age and position (says every GM as well).

So please quantify that

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think people are underestimating the PLD value all over HF.

Including Kakko sounds like too much but imo Lumbus can get that type of player/prospect in a one for one deal.

Let’s all remember how the Zbad trade worked out for us. PLD is on a higher curve than Zbad ATM, so I’m down to pony up especially given his age and position (says every GM as well).

Then let them get it from someone else

 

[jay from jersey]

Yeah, it’s not the timing part, or even that a deal would come with a cost. It’s the over-bidding and the complete cares to the wind approach of giving up a top end young talent on an ELC and who isn’t even to their second deal yet.

Even if we put the talent on the shelf for a second, part of this teams long-term strategy will factor in the concept of having elite young talent on deals that aren’t closing in on $8-$9 million right off the bat.

larry is out of his mind. Sure they can ask for the moon, but factors matter. NYR would not give up all those years of control with Kakko, 1 without seeing the type of player he can truly be and 2 knowing PLD only has 2 years until he is due a sizable raise in the covid era.
Pieces going to Columbus would most likely include Chytil ( who could be a similar player as PLD in the next year or two, maybe a tier lower but no doubt the young kid has talent. A solid D prospect such as 1 of Robertson, Miller, Jones, Lundkvist, etc. Strome mostly for salary but also as a stop gap until Chytil takes the next step and either a 1st rd pick or a 2nd rd pick that turns into a first if NYR wins a playoff rd or something of that ilk. That’s most likely what is would take to land PLD. It’s a sizeable package for sure and the rangers farm takes a hit no doubt but to add a player with the age and talent of PLD it should hurt the farm. Should NYR do it??? I honestly don’t know. There are going to be other options for sure, and I honestly don’t know how the front office feels about what else is out there. They might just want to bide their time for 2 years and hopefully add to their farm and make a run at barkov and cut zibby lose and hope Chytil takes the next step here, they may want to take a run at jack Eichel if the Sabres perform poorly this year and he’s had enough of wasting his career with no playoff outings. I think the only way Eichel is traded in conference is if the rangers include KAkko in a deal due to Eichel’s age talent and contract length. It really all depends on what the front office thinks we need and what direction they want to go in. If they think the team is a contender by the end of this year, maybe they go heavy for jack in the offseason. If not , they could wait a year or perhaps even 2 evaluating what they have and how they want to proceed. The huge question of giving zibby a multi-year deal for high numbers at age 28-29 also hangs in the balance. We are going to see a huge trade my friends. The question is who and when. I guess time will tell

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’ll go out on a limb and say DeAngelo will never get close to 70 points playing the right, let alone the left

Very brave of me to say I know

 

[NYSPORTS]

Until LA puts Byfield/Turcotte on the Table, Anaheim puts Zegras/Drysdale on the table, Winnipeg stops being in Winnipeg, Carolina pulls the okie doke and pivots from Laine with Necas (even then, hes more Chytil level than Kakko level) or Montreal makes Kotkaniemi available, Kakko shouldn't even be under consideration.

Even if one or more of those things happens, I'm not sure that its worth it but point is there is no reason to bid against air. Thats Chiarelli stuff.

all of the above and is it Thursday yet?

 

[LokiDog]

I mean Dubois is only 1 year older than Chytil. He’s 100 days younger than Howden. It’s not like he fits our timeline that differently than any of the painful young players we’d be giving up. Dealing from a position of strength to not just solidify, but absolutely cement one of our only positions of weakness isn’t a bad move.

More to this point, we’re still waiting for Chytil to maybe emerge as a 2C option, let alone cement himself as an NHL player. Dubois had 61 points as a 20 year old. At Chytil’s current age he had 49 in 69, on a team that doesn’t put up big points.

I keep seeing posters saying PLD isn’t a 1C yet because he was outscored by 34 other centers but you have to keep in mind that those 49 points led his team. He is absolutely already a 1C at 22 years old. The next highest points on his team were 42. The Blue Jackets finished above the Rangers, yet had only 2 forwards and 1 defenseman above 40 points. The Rangers had 5 forwards and two defenseman above 40 points, 4 players above 50, 3 above 70. Do you really think PLD would rank 34th among centers if he played on this roster? I’d wager he’d find himself inside of or right around top 20 in scoring for centers. And he plays a very complete game with both his defense and physicality being above average.

And again, he’s younger than Howden and barely older than Chytil, both of whom we’re being patient for to improve, but we’re acting like PLD wouldn’t continue to improve for several years over the 1C that he already is? 48 points as a rookie, 61 as a sophomore, 49 last year in a shortened season on a team that only had one other forward break 40. He’s basically a lock for 60+ in an offensive system as is and easily projects as a 70+ point two way center.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think Kakko is going to be an above point per game winger. I’m not saying he won’t be a 65-70 point winger with a couple of bigger years mixed in, I’m not nearly as hesitant to move him for a center that is 22 years old as some of you. I wouldn’t do so for a 25+ year old center. But with Laf and Panarin, Kreider and Buch, and then guys like Kravstov, Gauthier, Barron, Berard... if we end up short a top nine winger that’s a lot easier to fill then a 22 year old top center. Wing is our position of strength. RD is our position of strength. I’d be fine dealing from these positions to fill this hole. PLD also insulates us if Zbad prices himself out of town in 2 years. If we’re able to keep both, we have amazing center quality and if Z leaves, you’re not stuck holding the bag hoping Chytil has turned into a top six, let alone top line center because you have no others in the organization.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I still don’t understand the absolute incredulity that any proposal involving Kakko is met with around here..

Agree - and if the Rangers can move Kakko and maybe Laf too we won’t have to worry about those larger salaries down the road.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

More to this point, we’re still waiting for Chytil to maybe emerge as a 2C option, let alone cement himself as an NHL player. Dubois had 61 points as a 20 year old. At Chytil’s current age he had 49 in 69, on a team that doesn’t put up big points.

I keep seeing posters saying PLD isn’t a 1C yet because he was outscored by 34 other centers but you have to keep in mind that those 49 points led his team. He is absolutely already a 1C at 22 years old. The next highest points on his team were 42. The Blue Jackets finished above the Rangers, yet had only 2 forwards and 1 defenseman above 40 points. The Rangers had 5 forwards and two defenseman above 40 points, 4 players above 50, 3 above 70. Do you really think PLD would rank 34th among centers if he played on this roster? I’d wager he’d find himself inside of or right around top 20 in scoring for centers. And he plays a very complete game with both his defense and physicality being above average.

And again, he’s younger than Howden and barely older than Chytil, both of whom we’re being patient for to improve, but we’re acting like PLD wouldn’t continue to improve for several years over the 1C that he already is? 48 points as a rookie, 61 as a sophomore, 49 last year in a shortened season on a team that only had one other forward break 40. He’s basically a lock for 60+ in an offensive system as is and easily projects as a 70+ point two way center.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think Kakko is going to be an above point per game winger. I’m not saying he won’t be a 65-70 point winger with a couple of bigger years mixed in, I’m not nearly as hesitant to move him for a center that is 22 years old as some of you. I wouldn’t do so for a 25+ year old center. But with Laf and Panarin, Kreider and Buch, and then guys like Kravstov, Gauthier, Barron, Berard... if we end up short a top nine winger that’s a lot easier to fill then a 22 year old top center. Wing is our position of strength. RD is our position of strength. I’d be fine dealing from these positions to fill this whole. PLD also insulates us if Zbad prices himself out of town in 2 years. If we’re able to keep both, we have amazing center quality and if Z leaves, you’re not stuck holding the bag hoping Chytil has turned into a top six, let alone top line center because you have no others in the organization.

Lets say that all of this is true...

It still makes no sense to bid that high when no one else has even come close to doing so. This is how bad deals are made.

PLD's market is actually very limited in terms of places hed be happy going, teams who have the assets and teams who aren't smack against the cap (1/3 of the league is over the limit right now before getting LTIR involved, and that isn't really a long term solution.)

 

[I Eat Crow]

Kakko should not be available for Dubois. My offer to Columbus starts with DeAngelo and is worked on from there. If Columbus included Texier too I'd consider Kravtsov going the other way in addition.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Kakko should not be available for Dubois. My offer to Columbus starts with DeAngelo and is worked on from there. If Columbus included Texier too I'd consider Kravtsov going the other way in addition.

Maybe then I can finally see the TDA and MDZ bromance...

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Obligatory "should we kick the tires on Juulsen?" post

 

[Fitzy]

The incredulity is that I can’t remember the last time a top 2 pick was dealt after only one season.

I’m not saying Kakko for PLD isn’t fair, I’m saying it would be a bold move from the organization

 

[LokiDog]

Lets say that all of this is true...

It still makes no sense to bid that high when no one else has even come close to doing so. This is how bad deals are made.

PLD's market is actually very limited in terms of places hed be happy going, teams who have the assets and teams who aren't smack against the cap (1/3 of the league is over the limit right now before getting LTIR involved, and that isn't really a long term solution.)

It’s not like I’m suggesting we just kick down the doors and offer 50% more than anyone else has. I’m simply saying that logistically, I’m not as opposed to moving an elite winger for an elite center when we have at least two other elite wingers and, unlike D, where at least there’s a lot of internal options coming down the pipeline, we really don’t have C prospects and it’s arguably the most important position on a contender.

 

[Crease]

Without getting into the actual subject matter, what can be a distraction for the Rangers’ PR department might not be a distraction for the locker room, and vice versa. By many accounts, DeAngelo is well-liked by his teammates and the coaching staff. I think so long as the off-ice stuff is not impacting the locker room and the results on the ice, he’s here to stay. In fact, moving him could actually hurt the locker room more than help. We just don’t know, and that’s where the front office needs be keyed in with player leadership.

 

[Synergy27]

The incredulity is that I can’t remember the last time a top 2 pick was dealt after only one season.

I’m not saying Kakko for PLD isn’t fair, I’m saying it would be a bold move from the organization

How often have teams had two consecutive top two picks?

I’m certainly not advocating a Kakko trade. I am over the moon to have him. But, I do not view him as untouchable after landing Lafreniere (who I do view as untouchable). He can be both an integral part of the future of this team AND one of the league’s most valuable trade chips simultaneously.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

How often have teams had two consecutive top two picks?

I’m certainly not advocating a Kakko trade. I am over the moon to have him. But, I do not view him as untouchable after landing Lafreniere (who I do view as untouchable). He can be both an integral part of the future of this team AND one of the league’s most valuable trade chips simultaneously.

If he’s one of the leagues most valuable trading chips than he’d be going for something a lot more valuable than PLD.