Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXIX

[The New Russian Five]

Calgary leaking that info about what they are looking for just reeks of

"We don't like the trade talks we have already have, can anyone else please offer us something?"

Cowards

Brad Treliving still believes that using the media is an actual move/tactic for trades talks and free agent negotiations. That stuff means nothing anymore. This isn't 1990. Gorton does a great job with trades... air tight ship.

Yeah... The rangers have never used the media to leak information for their own gain in trades talks...

 

[kovazub94]

Kakko has been shooting pucks at an empty net for 8 out of the last 9 months. The kid needs some gametime

By your own account he's been shooting at Georgiev.

And the context here is participating in WJC - the level he already dominated 2 years ago and that is scheduled to take place right around when the Rangers should have their own camp.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I disagree. I believe that playing in the World Juniors is always a great opportunity for young players. I would hope the Rangers let both play as long as they aren't missing actual NHL games.

and the risk of getting hurt. no need to take that risk.

 

[kovazub94]

...

Additionally, Buch + ADA comes out to 8.05M with Buch needing a new deal next year and Tony the year following. Lindholm + Hanifin comes out to 9.8M and they’re locked in for 4 more years...

This line, where comparison between salary for the upcoming season, might be the key for delay waiting until uncertainty due to Strome arbitration is resolved. I definitely see a very good match between the two teams there. It (the salary difference) might be even more profound if Monahan is there instead of Lindholm.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

I don't see how Tony is still a fit for Calgary. If they trade for Tony that would signal to me they don't trust Andersson or Tanev. And if that's the case, why would they give Andersson a 6 year extension, or just sign Tanev a couple weeks ago

Plus you add in salary considerations and it makes no sense

Thats because Tanev like Whitney and Kulikov are made of glass. He will play up to 20 games and then get hurt. Which makes Anderson their only RD. I Also dont understand why Calgary wont just bring up Kylington and give him a chance.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

It also doesnt make sense for us, as we give up a lot of value whether the return is Hanifin, Monahan or even Lindholm. That, plus the salary differential just in taking back Monahan, let alone Monahan and Hanifin... it doesnt seem plausible at all.

Why? You are moving 4.5m in Deangelo, whatever Buch is worth plus his next contract which will be around 4m, plus not having to resign strome which is another 4-5m. thats around 13m aav. While replacing with Hanifin who is a young solid LD and either Manahan or Lindholm to be an excellent #2 center that makes tops 6m aav.

The value is actually having a LD that can play and grow who is still only 24! Then add Monahan or Lindholm who were playing 1st line minutes in Cal, now playing on the 2nd line for years to come? You are getting a #2 center and a easily top 4 LD for right now an all offensive D man, losing strome that no1 cares about and prob moving buch to allow kakko, krav, and guthier to get more minutes. Also allows Fox to move up and continue to show that he is just as capable as Deangelo on the PP. While being able to bring in Lundqvist to start the year after.

We would be balancing our team out.

 

[SA16]

I thought we want defensive defenseman. Why do we want Hanifin? He's another bad defense/good offense defenseman.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Calgary has expressed they need a right shot forward, especially if Lindholm were to move.

DeAngelo somewhat makes sense for them, because they don’t really have any offense on their back end.

They have Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund, Mangiapane, Dube, Bennett and some kids like Pelletier and Phillips who could fill out their top nine.

We add Buchnevich and they add Hanifin. Buch takes Lindholm’s spot at RW where they’ve been using him. Lindholm/Zibanejad/Chytil would give us great center depth to go with our great winger depth. Lindholm’s contract is also great and would make re-signing our guys a lot easier because you have the position locked down at a reasonable price. Lindholm is closer to Zib quality than Strome quality. The upgrade is substantial.

Additionally, Buch + ADA comes out to 8.05M with Buch needing a new deal next year and Tony the year following. Lindholm + Hanifin comes out to 9.8M and they’re locked in for 4 more years.

Hanifin would solidify our defense a lot and Lindholm is exceptional both offensively and defensively. He would improve our forward group’s overall defensive quality. Team defense improves significantly in this scenario.

We’d have to send Smith @50% to make up for the salary difference (or walk away from Strome, but ideally we can keep Strome as a RW and flip him at the deadline when Kravstov is ready) or something like that, but this would actually improve our cap situation going forward as well. Lindholm for ADA is a wash. Buch’s next contract for Hanifin is a wash. We get much better at stopping goals against, and solidify our center depth while losing a little scoring punch from the back end... but we also open the spot for Lundkvist to come in a year from now and replace a percentage of that blue line offense.

It’s a move that improves the team, swaps strengths for weaknesses (RD and W for LD and C), actually helps our cap situation in the future and clears the log jam at RD. Even if you don’t love it at first sight, the broader view of it is actually quite beneficial.


Kreider - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Lindholm - Strome(Kravstov)
Lafreniere - Chytil - Gauthier
Lemieux - Howden - Barron?
Hanifin - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Johnson - Hajek(Miller - Lundkvist)

That team is almost undoubtedly better. Eventually you have:

Miller - Trouba
Hanifin - Fox
Lindgren - Lundkvist

@Loki Dog 74 I dont know how to say this any better. This X10000. This is how we balance the team out, create spots for our young players to step in, and help to balance out the cap.

 

[nyr2k2]

I honestly don't think Kakko or Lafreniere going to WJC is a realistic possibility. Just nothing to gain at their level relative to junior hockey and how important they are to the Rangers this close to the training camp and start of the season.

I only think it becomes a possibility if the NHL season starts later than expected. If the WJC would at all interfere with camp or official team activities, then I would seriously doubt either guy goes. I doubt either guy goes, period, but I do think if the NHL season starts even later than anticipated it at least becomes a possibility. On the same level as some of these guys playing in lesser European leagues just to stay in shape and get some game reps.

 

[bobbop]

I don't see how Tony is still a fit for Calgary. If they trade for Tony that would signal to me they don't trust Andersson or Tanev. And if that's the case, why would they give Andersson a 6 year extension, or just sign Tanev a couple weeks ago

Plus you add in salary considerations and it makes no sense

Neither of those RDs are very good offensively. DeAngelo brings a completely different dimension. Keep in mind also that Giordano is turning 38 this year.

 

[Avery16]

Why? You are moving 4.5m in Deangelo, whatever Buch is worth plus his next contract which will be around 4m, plus not having to resign strome which is another 4-5m. thats around 13m aav. While replacing with Hanifin who is a young solid LD and either Manahan or Lindholm to be an excellent #2 center that makes tops 6m aav.

The value is actually having a LD that can play and grow who is still only 24! Then add Monahan or Lindholm who were playing 1st line minutes in Cal, now playing on the 2nd line for years to come? You are getting a #2 center and a easily top 4 LD for right now an all offensive D man, losing strome that no1 cares about and prob moving buch to allow kakko, krav, and guthier to get more minutes. Also allows Fox to move up and continue to show that he is just as capable as Deangelo on the PP. While being able to bring in Lundqvist to start the year after.

We would be balancing our team out.

I didnt have Buchnevich in a hypo deal with Calgary. Youre giving up a lot of offense by moving those two, and if Monahan is coming back theres almost no way we dont see a net gain in salary.

Standing pat is a better deal than that proposal. Sign Granlund/Haula/Soderberg at a third to a half of what Monahan makes. Move Tony to LD. Done.

 

[Karen Panarin]

and the risk of getting hurt. no need to take that risk.

There is always a risk of getting hurt. People get hurt in training camp all the time. Should Kratsov not be playing in KHL right now in case he gets hurt?

 

[DutchShamrock]

If everyone releases their star U20, the world junior tournament level of competition elevates.

And honestly, an NHL season is far from a guarantee. The league is going to strong arm the players into prorated salary. The owners won't open up if there is no chance of fans. Those two things need to happen to have a season. The Olympics are in July and Seattle's massive check is just waiting to be cashed. They won't let games spill into the Olympics if they can help it. And the owners won't push Seattle's entry back any further. This coming season is precarious.

Get the kids game time any place they can get it.

 

[JohnC]

Yeah... The rangers have never used the media to leak information for their own gain in trades talks...

Yeah that was a really odd statement. The Rangers are (were) notorious for using people like Larry Brooks and Dreger to negotiate through the media.

 

[NYRangers16]

Calgary has expressed they need a right shot forward, especially if Lindholm were to move.

DeAngelo somewhat makes sense for them, because they don’t really have any offense on their back end.

They have Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund, Mangiapane, Dube, Bennett and some kids like Pelletier and Phillips who could fill out their top nine.

We add Buchnevich and they add Hanifin. Buch takes Lindholm’s spot at RW where they’ve been using him. Lindholm/Zibanejad/Chytil would give us great center depth to go with our great winger depth. Lindholm’s contract is also great and would make re-signing our guys a lot easier because you have the position locked down at a reasonable price. Lindholm is closer to Zib quality than Strome quality. The upgrade is substantial.

Additionally, Buch + ADA comes out to 8.05M with Buch needing a new deal next year and Tony the year following. Lindholm + Hanifin comes out to 9.8M and they’re locked in for 4 more years.

Hanifin would solidify our defense a lot and Lindholm is exceptional both offensively and defensively. He would improve our forward group’s overall defensive quality. Team defense improves significantly in this scenario.

We’d have to send Smith @50% to make up for the salary difference (or walk away from Strome, but ideally we can keep Strome as a RW and flip him at the deadline when Kravstov is ready) or something like that, but this would actually improve our cap situation going forward as well. Lindholm for ADA is a wash. Buch’s next contract for Hanifin is a wash. We get much better at stopping goals against, and solidify our center depth while losing a little scoring punch from the back end... but we also open the spot for Lundkvist to come in a year from now and replace a percentage of that blue line offense.

It’s a move that improves the team, swaps strengths for weaknesses (RD and W for LD and C), actually helps our cap situation in the future and clears the log jam at RD. Even if you don’t love it at first sight, the broader view of it is actually quite beneficial.


Kreider - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Lindholm - Strome(Kravstov)
Lafreniere - Chytil - Gauthier
Lemieux - Howden - Barron?
Hanifin - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Johnson - Hajek(Miller - Lundkvist)

That team is almost undoubtedly better. Eventually you have:

Miller - Trouba
Hanifin - Fox
Lindgren - Lundkvist

I like a lot about this. It’s a dream scenario. But clearly CGY isn’t as big a fan or it likely would have been done already.

 

[kovazub94]

I like a lot about this. It’s a dream scenario. But clearly CGY isn’t as big a fan or it likely would have been done already.

Why do you assume the delay is from Calgary?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Keep in mind also that Giordano is turning 38 this year.

By HF standards, that makes him older than you!

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

bruce boudreau will take that bet

He's more of a haagen daz kind of guy.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Personally i think both Lafrieniere and Kakko should go to the world juniors as it will be the best hockey they will be able to play until february. Its not good for these kids to be sitting around without game time, they may as well get involved in a major tournament.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

I didnt have Buchnevich in a hypo deal with Calgary. Youre giving up a lot of offense by moving those two, and if Monahan is coming back theres almost no way we dont see a net gain in salary.

Standing pat is a better deal than that proposal. Sign Granlund/Haula/Soderberg at a third to a half of what Monahan makes. Move Tony to LD. Done.

Why that all sounds good, and am okay with trying it. You are still not solving the center position issue for this or next year. And deangelo would be playing his off side. If you think he is bad at defense on his natural position, what do you think his D will be on the Left?

Also i think you are not giving enough credit to the offensive prowless to Monahan or Elias Lindholm and Hanifin.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Why do you assume the delay is from Calgary?

Edge posted this the other day —

The puck is on Calgary's stick. They decide what to do with it.

Gorton has probably given Treliving his final offer(s) and it’s a take it or leave it at this point.

 

[Avery16]

Why that all sounds good, and am okay with trying it. You are still not solving the center position issue for this or next year. And deangelo would be playing his off side. If you think he is bad at defense on his natural position, what do you think his D will be on the Left?

Also i think you are not giving enough credit to the offensive prowless to Monahan or Elias Lindholm and Hanifin.

Between Chytil and one of Granlund/Haula/Soderberg, the middle-six Cs should be fine. Trouba gets paid enough to handle the defense for that pairing.

also… are you really suggesting that I'm not giving Hanifin proper credit for his offense ability in my criticism of trading ADA for him? There's a 30+ point gap between those two last season, and Hanifin had more GP! That's a hell of a scoring deficit to take just to add a more expensive left-handed D.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Personally i think both Lafrieniere and Kakko should go to the world juniors as it will be the best hockey they will be able to play until february. Its not good for these kids to be sitting around without game time, they may as well get involved in a major tournament.

They’ll learn nothing by dominating players in the World Juniors.

 

[Calad]

I like a lot about this. It’s a dream scenario. But clearly CGY isn’t as big a fan or it likely would have been done already.

Yup. Just check out how some fans responded when I mentioned they had the same cap hit and both fill a need for each team in the thread about Dreger's comments

 

[Leetch3]

They’ll learn nothing by dominating players in the World Juniors.

first if they played it would mean a ton of nhlers are going so the level of competition would be on another tier. this isn't going back to juniors to play regular season games....and the alternative in that situation is sitting at home waiting for nhl camp to start

it has little to do with learning something....it would be about getting into camp shape so when the season starts they hit the ground running from day 1...neither will play cause NHL camps will probably open too early so it doesn't really matter