Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LX

[Crease]

Lauts just made a great point on NHL Network: “If you win the cup in the salary cap era, there’s a good chance you’re in cap hell.”

Yep. Championship teams are usually stacked with: (a) impact guys in the final year of their rookie deals; (b) pending UFAs having career years; and (c) contributors on one-year show-me deals. And every team in the league wants to poach these guys.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Is he not legit? I have no idea who's of use on Twitter and who isn't. Just know the big names.

No. He isn't. He is a troll. Every year people post his BS rumors and we have to clean it up.

Stick to the big names as well as locally known guys (Carp/Brooksie) and you will be fine.

 

[LokiDog]

Wait...Isn't he a left wing? I think Brady is ridiculous and couldn't believe Montreal didn't take him at #3 but we have number one overall in a draft where there is no doubt who number 1 is. It's clear there is a drop off after #1 and after #3 so #5 would be where the risk is. I guess I am just being greedy. If you told me before August 10th I would be doing backflips for Tkachuk and #5 (Raymond/Rossi) but now we just can't pass up on Drafting Lafreniere.

He’s been played more on the wing, but he’s every bit as much a center as Chytil is. But my point is, constructing an all star fantasy lineup makes everyone salivate but doesn’t necessarily win Cups. Lafreniere may well be an incredible talent, but let’s say he’s the next Taylor Hall/Tyler Seguin (I mean, these would be some pretty stiff competition to surpass, let’s be realistic and honest). Would the Rangers and their youth be better off with the personnel they already have (Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Kreider, Buch, Kravstov, Fox, Trouba, Miller, etc.) and Tkachuk + Raymond/Rossi/Sanderson etc. or adding another winger?

I think drafting Lafreniere is enough to make anyone drench their pants, but I want to win Cups. Plural.

 

[Polar Bear]

I hope he gets traded now just to spite you

I hope Mahomes decides to retire and moves to Timbuktu forever.

 

[LokiDog]

Lafreniere has elite offensive potential and leadership qualities. He is a potential franchise player. Tkachuk isn't.

No doubt. But Lafreniere is also, yet another winger, a POTENTIAL franchise player and comes by himself. Tkachuk would be an already proven capable NHL player who is all but obviously headed for 60-70pts per season and comes with a prospect like Raymond/Rossi/Sanderson/Perfetti attached.

 

[RGY]

I’m a bit confused as to why Tkachuk + 5 is so outlandish. You’re moving down 4 spots while also adding a physical 6’4 21 year old who is already pretty much a 50 point center. Lafreniere looks like a great prospect but as we’ve seen with Hughes, Kakko, Hischier, etc. putting up 45+ as a rookie isn’t exactly in the bag. Tkachuk has two seasons of 45 points in 71 games and is a physical specimen and a young center, which we need much more than a winger. Could there be pluses in the deal to fine tune it? Sure, but I don’t know that I’d balk at Tkachuk + 5. Draft picks are so f***ing overrated these days.


This kid is 21, listed at 6’4 212, credited with 477 hits in his 142 career games, which would destroy the totals for any Ranger in that time frame and looks, easily, like a 70+ point power forward center going forward.

Without even getting into anything with you for the above because the truth is I LOVE both Tkachuk brothers....if the Rangers are going to trade the only 1st OA pick they have had since 1965 it better be for a haul. And while Brady Tkachuk is a good part of the package, moving down 4 spots is absolutely not. The only premise of even considering moving the pick is you at minimum stay in the top 3 to draft one of Byfield/Stutzle. Byfield is really the guy to get, and even at 3 there is a good chance he wont be there. I heard on Sirius Monday Morning from one of the guys they had on the show as a Guest that has info on LAK is they have already decided on who they want there. And the guess is its Byfield. They love him.

So moving out of the only 1OA you have ever had? Ok, then it better be for something you cannot refuse. Because if you do it and Lafreniere becomes a stud and you dont win a cup with the pieces you get then it can create a downward spiral for the organization.

 

[Polar Bear]

I’m a bit confused as to why Tkachuk + 5 is so outlandish. You’re moving down 4 spots while also adding a physical 6’4 21 year old who is already pretty much a 50 point center. Lafreniere looks like a great prospect but as we’ve seen with Hughes, Kakko, Hischier, etc. putting up 45+ as a rookie isn’t exactly in the bag. Tkachuk has two seasons of 45 points in 71 games and is a physical specimen and a young center, which we need much more than a winger. Could there be pluses in the deal to fine tune it? Sure, but I don’t know that I’d balk at Tkachuk + 5. Draft picks are so f***ing overrated these days.


This kid is 21, listed at 6’4 212, credited with 477 hits in his 142 career games, which would destroy the totals for any Ranger in that time frame and looks, easily, like a 70+ point power forward center going forward.

Because he's not anywhere close to the elite talent Laf is offensively and you're going to have to pay Brady imminently, and he doesn't even play center. And it's not an overpayment of value. I would never move Laf minus an offer that's too stupid to pass up.

 

[LeetchisGod]

No doubt. But Lafreniere is also, yet another winger, a POTENTIAL franchise player and comes by himself. Tkachuk would be an already proven capable NHL player who is all but obviously headed for 60-70pts per season and comes with a prospect like Raymond/Rossi/Sanderson/Perfetti attached.

The Blackhawks won their last cup with basically the corpse of Brad Richards at second line center. You are overrating the importance of that position. The Lightning just won with Cirelli at second line center. Not a difference making player by any means.

 

[bl02]

He’s been played more on the wing, but he’s every bit as much a center as Chytil is. But my point is, constructing an all star fantasy lineup makes everyone salivate but doesn’t necessarily win Cups. Lafreniere may well be an incredible talent, but let’s say he’s the next Taylor Hall/Tyler Seguin (I mean, these would be some pretty stiff competition to surpass, let’s be realistic and honest). Would the Rangers and their youth be better off with the personnel they already have (Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Kreider, Buch, Kravstov, Fox, Trouba, Miller, etc.) and Tkachuk + Raymond/Rossi/Sanderson etc. or adding another winger?

I think drafting Lafreniere is enough to make anyone drench their pants, but I want to win Cups. Plural.

Not saying you're wrong but why didn't he stick at center with Ottawa? I view him as a heavy winger with amazing skill and tenacity. It's not like they currently have a Crosby or Scheifele or even Mika at center.
100 percent! I want to build a team not a fantasy lineup as well. Just don't think Lafreniere projects as a flashy perimeter type guy. He seems like the kind of kid you want to see play in the big games. If Tkachuk can seriously play just as well at center as he can at wing then I see where you're coming from. I just haven't seen enough of him at center to make the claim that he would be just as effective or play a strong 200 ft game at the center position.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The Blackhawks won their last cup with basically the corpse of Brad Richards at second line center.

They won another cup with Dave Bolland/Michal Handzus splitting 2C duty

 

[RGY]

Brady Tkachuk is not a Center. Stop it.

 

[Polar Bear]

The trade offer proposed was dumb. No, it's not enough. And no, JG/JD would not accept it. It will take a once in a decade type offer to move our very first, number one pick in the modern draft era and when there is someone THAT good clearly alone at the top.

/end

 

[bobbop]

This is purely what-if, but which scenario is better?

A. Trading a 1st rounder and Pionk for a 25 year-old Jacob Trouba and signing him to that huge contract, ending when he’s around 33

B. Keeping those assets and instead banking on a 50% chance of signing Pietrangelo (and I think that’s being generous because 9 times out of 10, if the Rangers have the cap space and want a FA, they’re getting them) to about the same huge contract as Trouba, taking him to around 37

I know I can’t go back in time, but I’m really curious about this for some reason, and my hockey knowledge isn’t high enough to make a judgment here. Would B have been the better option if we knew he was 100% going to sign with us? Or would we possibly be better off without doing either of those things? I think that the age factor tips the scale in factor of option A, but giving up that 1st rounder and Pionk tips it back to option B. I guess it ultimately depends on whether or not Pietrangelo can continue to play at a high level into his late 30s.

If it’s and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas.

Oh, and by the way, Trouba will be 31 when his contract expires.

 

[LokiDog]

The trade offer proposed was dumb. No, it's not enough. And no, JG/JD would not accept it. It will take a once in a decade type offer to move our 1st overall pick in the modern draft era and when there is someone THAT good clearly alone at the top.

/end

Listen, I hope he’s THAT good. I’m just not convinced that Lafreniere isn’t Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Hischier, Hughes, Johnson, Fleury, Nash, DiPietro, Stefan, etc.

#1 overall is, at best, a 50/50 proposition. Almost every draft, the best player isn’t the first pick, and in the past 10-15 years it’s been, almost exactly 50%. Forget Tkachuk. I’m super excited to have #1 overall. I just don’t really feel like it’s the guaranteed golden ticket it feels like, and we have so many pieces in place that there ARE potential moves that would make me pause and seriously consider them.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I hope Mahomes decides to retire and moves to Timbuktu forever.

Too far man. Too far

 

[RGY]

Listen, I hope he’s THAT good. I’m just not convinced that Lafreniere isn’t Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Hischier, Hughes, Johnson, Fleury, Nash, DiPietro, Stefan, etc.

#1 overall is, at best, a 50/50 proposition. Almost every draft, the best player isn’t the first pick, and in the past 10-15 years it’s been, almost exactly 50%. Forget Tkachuk. I’m super excited to have #1 overall. I just don’t really feel like it’s the guaranteed golden ticket it feels like, and we have so many pieces in place that there ARE potential moves that would make me pause and seriously consider them.

More than half of the guys you mentioned either have had pretty damn good careers and/or are still TBD.

But either way, I’ll take my chances. There is a lot of substantiated info and data that has been collected for the last 2-3 years on the kid. He has only gotten better every year.

Unless you get a King’s ransom, you draft him and move on to your next moves.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Listen, I hope he’s THAT good. I’m just not convinced that Lafreniere isn’t Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Hischier, Hughes, Johnson, Fleury, Nash, DiPietro, Stefan, etc.

#1 overall is, at best, a 50/50 proposition. Almost every draft, the best player isn’t the first pick, and in the past 10-15 years it’s been, almost exactly 50%. Forget Tkachuk. I’m super excited to have #1 overall. I just don’t really feel like it’s the guaranteed golden ticket it feels like, and we have so many pieces in place that there ARE potential moves that would make me pause and seriously consider them.

There are no guarantees but he's a better pre-draft prospect than any of those guys.

 

[bobbop]

Would you guys be interested in like Joel Armia for him? I guess Lemieux won't ask like 3m

Yes. No backsies!

 

[Fitzy]

Uhhhh if lafreniere had a career like Rick Nash I think we would mostly be pretty happy with that, minus the lack of playoff experience.

Hall has been pretty damn good too

 

[Polar Bear]

Listen, I hope he’s THAT good. I’m just not convinced that Lafreniere isn’t Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Hischier, Hughes, Johnson, Fleury, Nash, DiPietro, Stefan, etc.

#1 overall is, at best, a 50/50 proposition. Almost every draft, the best player isn’t the first pick, and in the past 10-15 years it’s been, almost exactly 50%. Forget Tkachuk. I’m super excited to have #1 overall. I just don’t really feel like it’s the guaranteed golden ticket it feels like, and we have so many pieces in place that there ARE potential moves that would make me pause and seriously consider them.

This logic can apply to just about anyone. But yes, he can be that good. He’s one of the best draft prospects over the past decade. He’s not Crosby/McDavid but he’s on that next level. Nothing is a given, not even McDavid was. However, the odds strongly propose the idea Laf has the potential to become the best player we ever had, and no, that’s not hyperbole.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

This is always funny no matter the context

god I f***ing love curb

 

[Heckler81]

I know I’m asking for a lot but I hope Lafreniere’s leadership is Messier like as he helps them to a Stanley Cup.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Uhhhh if lafreniere had a career like Rick Nash I think we would mostly be pretty happy with that, minus the lack of playoff experience.

Hall has been pretty damn good too

f*** that

I want a sure fire HOFer at 1

This team and fan base deserves it god damn it. We haven’t had a superstar homegrown forward since f***ing Rod Gilbert lol. And no Kovalev doesn’t count because he was barely a star for us.

it is time

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

. Disappointed how? I never said it’s impossible. I simply said they are t just give them away. Their value is very high for the Rangers when it comes to a trade return

Well would you say a second round pick for Georgiev is 'an offer so good they can't refuse,' because that's what it sounds like he's going to return

 

[haveandare]

Tkachuk is a great player but I don't even think of moving Laf for him. Talk about Laf being all potential - Tkachuk hasn't scored 50 pointes yet and people talk about him like he's a proven elite player.