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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LVI

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Edge said:
I would not make that deal either. But I wouldn't be shocked if that's what Minnesota asks for at the start. Maybe they come down. Maybe a stacked team says, "how about pick 28(just an example)?"

That's the potential challenge when making an offer.
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If I'm Minny, I don't trade Greenway for 22. What exactly is sitting there at 22 that would project to be better than Greenway and is a sure thing. For instance, if Dylan Holloway falls to 22, he roughly projects to be the same sort of player but in 3 years. Why would they do that?

They just re-signed Brodin for 7 years. The Brodin signing says to me that they're going to bring in players that can help them now. They'd have to have soured on Greenway to trade him for futures.

As for the Rangers, I really like Greenway. Ideal playoff guy. But he's a winger. I think we should be focused on other positions first.

I do think Koivu is an interesting choice for the Rangers. In part because he's a Finn and having around for a year might be a nice idea for KK.
 
I think Lias would be of interest to Minnesota. More so than a draft pick.

As others have mentioned, who ever is picked at 22 is likely to be 2-4 seasons away from contributing. Lias has cooked a bit, plays a position that they're looking for depth in.

Those special teams minutes that we can't give him? He can get those opportunities in Minnesota.

Not suggesting a 1 for 1, but if there is an add on our end it wouldn't be a very big one.
 
Howden is a bad defensive player who isn't that good offensively but has a great shot. He is a RD and will be expensive. Why would we want him?
 
gravey9 said:
If I'm Minny, I don't trade Greenway for 22. What exactly is sitting there at 22 that would project to be better than Greenway and is a sure thing. For instance, if Dylan Holloway falls to 22, he roughly projects to be the same sort of player but in 3 years. Why would they do that?
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Depends on who they like and how they project them.

If they like guys like Bourque, Gunler, Perrault, etc., they aren't looking for third line replacements, they are shooting for top six forwards. That's the risk for them.

They aren't getting an older prospect or young NHL player who projects as a 25 goal/top 6 forward for Greenway right now. So if that's what they're gunning for, their best approach is the draft and seeing if they can find and develop that guy.

It's kind of the difference between buying unfinished furniture vs. going to a store.
 
Agree that Greenway is a great target but where would he fit in?

LW: Pan, Laf, Krieds, Lemmy
RW: Buch, Kakko, Kratvsov (looking like he’s ready), Gauthier
 
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Lindberg Cheese said:
Agree that Greenway is a great target but where would he fit in?

LW: Pan, Laf, Krieds, Lemmy
RW: Buch, Kakko, Kratvsov (looking like he’s ready), Gauthier
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3rd line LW if Buch is moved and Kreider flips sides or he can play RW himself. He's an upgrade right now over Lemieux and Gauthier and Kravstov isn't close to ready until he can translate what he's doing in the KHL over to NHL ice. So not worried about blocking him.
 
OT. I started the CoVid thread way back. Sorry about that, but I could really sense that coming after travelling around a bit. I now have a bad feeling about the next NHL season, the league itself (at least business as usual) and most things in general. Lord save us...
 
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Kovalev27 said:
Honestly I’m in sell mode still.
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You may be. I am going to make a pretty good guess that the Rangers are not.
Strome Buchnevich Fast Should go for futures and maybe even DeAngelo if you get me a LD back should go to at this point although we can wait On that for a perfect option as I’ve said, if of course we refuse to play him on the left side.
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While they may be traded, I can pretty much guarantee that 1) they are not traded for futures. If traded it would only be for players that will augment the starting line up. 2) the chances of two of Strome, Buchnevich and DeAngelo being traded this year is almost non-existent.

Teams with playoff aspirations do not trade these type of players for futures.
I think Chytil and Howden take big steps this year. Paying anyone big money to slot behind mika will bite us. We’re similar to Tampa in that regard with point and cirelli taking those steps. We are stacked at wing and with Kravtsov showing he’s taking a major leap we need roster spots.
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I think that Chytil and Howden actually need to show on the ice that they are ready to take a major step forward. And can Kravstov play a second of NHL time before we decide that he is also taking a major step forward?

Lots of wishcasting here.
 
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Edge said:
Depends on who they like and how they project them.

If they like guys like Bourque, Gunler, Perrault, etc., they aren't looking for third line replacements, they are shooting for top six forwards. That's the risk for them.

They aren't getting an older prospect or young NHL player who projects as a 25 goal/top 6 forward for Greenway right now. So if that's what they're gunning for, their best approach is the draft and seeing if they can find and develop that guy.

It's kind of the difference between buying unfinished furniture vs. going to a store.
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You're right. I guess it'll come down to their evaluations of each player. My own gut is that Greenway might be the best/safest bet of the 4. Not so much because he's already in the NHL but I like what he brings compared to the above. And I don't know that I take the risk that any of them would reach or exceed what Greenway is right now. And Greenway is just 23 with room to grow.

I'm very meh on Bourque and Perrault. I think Gunler really has something but worried about the coachability stuff. But, you're right if Minny thinks either of those 3 or some other guy who falls is a potential building block, core piece, then I think they would consider that move. Suter and Parise contracts have just doomed them to mediocrity. Maybe Kaprizov and whoever they draft with their pick changes things...
 
True Blue said:
You may be. I am going to make a pretty good guess that the Rangers are not.

While they may be traded, I can pretty much guarantee that 1) they are not traded for futures. If traded it would only be for players that will augment the starting line up. 2) the chances of two of Strome, Buchnevich and DeAngelo being traded this year is almost non-existent.

Teams with playoff aspirations do not trade these type of players for futures.

I think that Chytil and Howden actually need to show on the ice that they are ready to take a major step forward. And can Kravstov play a second of NHL time before we decide that he is also taking a major step forward?

Lots of wishcasting here.
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first off this idea that you can never leave lineup spots for rookies or young kids is wrong. If you sign or trade for a 2C you guarantee that Chytil and Howden do not get those chances to show they’ve taken the next step. If they believe in those two players they should leave those spots for them. They are not 18 anymore they’re entering important window here and that’s how they’re going to show who they are

JD by all accounts have said multiple times they want to be patient and not look for quick fix so being so certain on this is not being the case is based on nothing really.
 
KreiderBomb said:
Lou is smart, he will figure his way out of the cap issues. Anyone who thinks he didnt have a plan to deal with this long before now isn't giving him enough credit. They will take a step back but i don't think they are heading for a rebuild like we did.
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I am not saying they will have to rebuild. I am saying they will find away to keep Pulock, Toews, and hopefully Barzal, and continue to go for it, but I dont see an upward trajectory for the roster as a whole. I dont see them being a serious contender next year like we were from 2014 to 2015. Or even in that time frame of 2011-2015. Much of our “core” was 22-26 and it was more than just a few players.

I can see the Islanders just being a middling team that very well could make the playoffs but not do enough to be dangerous while the prime years of Pulock/Toews/etc wash away. I can see a lot of their current vets start to take a downward turn. And they really cant add to the roster. Flat cap with those 3 to re-sign. They are really up against the ceiling. So what you see with the roster is what you get.

And no I cant sit here and just say Lou has some plan. Some of his decisions have been very questionable. A 1st round pick, albeit a later 1st, for Pageau, who isnt a bad player but is not anything spectacular. Great on faceoffs. 28 years old. Extended 5 years or something like that. Just doesnt seem like a lot of foresight to me. Not when you need to sign Barzal. And now with all your older guys who will eventually need to be turned over, you have one less 1st round pick to potentially replace those guys with.

Like I said this will be very, very challenging for the Islanders organization. Not impressed with their prospect pool either.
 
gravey9 said:
You're right. I guess it'll come down to their evaluations of each player. My own gut is that Greenway might be the best/safest bet of the 4. Not so much because he's already in the NHL but I like what he brings compared to the above. And I don't know that I take the risk that any of them would reach or exceed what Greenway is right now. And Greenway is just 23 with room to grow.

I'm very meh on Bourque and Perrault. I think Gunler really has something but worried about the coachability stuff. But, you're right if Minny thinks either of those 3 or some other guy who falls is a potential building block, core piece, then I think they would consider that move. Suter and Parise contracts have just doomed them to mediocrity. Maybe Kaprizov and whoever they draft with their pick changes things...
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And in complete transparency, I really can't say/don't know for sure. I'm just spitballing how they could view a draft pick in relation to what they're trading.

For some people Greenway is a nice bottom six player who they'd love to have, but not at the cost of a 22nd pick overall. Others might feel like there's nothing Minnesota would want with a 22nd pick that's worth giving up Greenway. That's the weird realm of player values.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
first off this idea that you can never leave lineup spots for rookies or young kids is wrong.
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No one said that rookies or young kids cannot play. But they need to earn it, not have it handed to them. Any major spot in the line up will not be a simple placeholder for X.
If you sign or trade for a 2C you guarantee that Chytil and Howden do not get those chances to show they’ve taken the next step. If they believe in those two players they should leave those spots for them. They are not 18 anymore they’re entering important window here and that’s how they’re going to show who they are
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I didn't really see many urging to sign a 2C. Could be I missed something, I will admit. Believing in players and leaving spots open on major lines are two different things. Chytil and Howden both need to demonstrate this year that they are a part of the future. It is up to them to knock down the door.
JD by all accounts have said multiple times they want to be patient and not look for quick fix so being so certain on this is not being the case is based on nothing really.
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I agree with you about the quick fix. Did I miss where people are begging for one? Seriously, did I?
 
Edge said:
And in complete transparency, I really can't say/don't know for sure. I'm just spitballing how they could view a draft pick in relation to what they're trading.

For some people Greenway is a nice bottom six player who they'd love to have, but not at the cost of a 22nd pick overall. Others might feel like there's nothing Minnesota would want with a 22nd pick that's worth giving up Greenway. That's the weird realm of player values.
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Yup. I forgot to mention in my last post that on the flip side I don't think the Rangers should trade 22 for Greenway either. I think they should be looking for an LD. Loading up on bottom 6 wingers right now would be a huge mistake. Not only to solidify top of lineup first, but also there's a cap and an expansion draft to consider. Minus these considerations, sure I'd love Greenway.
 
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I can understand people not wanting Stamkos due to health concerns, but lets not act like he is some washed up player. The two are not the same. This is a guy who had 66 points in 57 games this year. He had 98 points and 86 points in the two seasons prior. He has 4 years left on his deal. I dont think you see him fall off a cliff. Even if there is a regression from say 98 points, I still think he is in the 75-85 point range.

I am not advocating for a Stamkos trade, just dont agree with some of the sentiments being thrown around here.

I think Strome for Greenway + 2nd round pick is a fair deal.

And I am ok with being more conservative this offseason. However, I still think you need to add a center down the middle somewhere, whether it be 2C, 3C, or 4C. I know people just cant stand these proven vets because they arent who they once were, but Thornton, Koivu, Boyle, would all be good short term stopgap options for the bottom 6.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
Guys I don’t get it where are you putting more wingers!?!
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It's insanity. As things stand, they've already got their top 9 wingers in house. If Buch gets moved, I'm not too sure they'd be getting another player from outside the organization. It would be an internal player. Kakko, Kravtsov, and Gauthier are going to play on RW eventually. The left side is stacked to the gills, and on top of that, there is Lemiuex and Barron for the 4th line. Howden has even looked more effective on the wing. Where is Greenway playing?

Everyone is so used to this team needing wingers over the years. We're at max capacity at this point. And there are some that keep moving Chytil to the wing too. Then you even have a player like Gettinger that could win a 4th line job.

I know the "get a center" discussion can only go so far, but wingers are the last need for this franchise.
 
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