Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LII

[rangers1314]

Goligoski has one year left @ 5. 4.

Could he be a target as a 1 year stop gap to improve the left side?

 

[Fitzy]

The production isn't there yet for Chytil but the combination of size, speed, and skill are obvious. This isn't a Benoit Pouliot situation where he has zero hockey IQ to go with it either.

He will figure it out, the question is when and at what position. I agree the faceoffs are a concern, but we put up with Kevin Hayes being under 40% most of his time here.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Goligoski has one year left @ 5. 4.

Could he be a target as a 1 year stop gap to improve the left side?

If you could get Arizona to accept Smith’s contract in return, I could see it.

Dream scenario would be swapping Gogligoski for Staal with either the Rangers paying half Staal’s salary, and maybe adding a sweetener, such as Andersson.

 

[GAGLine]

If you could get Arizona to accept Smith’s contract in return, I could see it.

I posted that very proposal in this thread yesterday. Saves them 1.125 in cap space and 1.65 in real money.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I posted that very proposal in this thread yesterday. Saves them 1.125 in cap space and 1.65 in real money.

I couldn’t remember who suggested it. Props for a good suggestion.

 

[haohmaru]

Goligoski has one year left @ 5. 4.

Could he be a target as a 1 year stop gap to improve the left side?

Not without some serious help. By that I mean retirement help. No place to put that cap hit.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I mean you spelled out why the team didn’t overachieve in my opinion Right there too. They shouldn’t have been a playoff team and they proved it by crashing down to earth. We knew Panarin was good but the teams top prospects, besides Fox haven’t improved anything special. We can take. Igor and Kakko out of it but Chytil arguably has regressed. He should have some responsibility for Lias. Trouba has a tough season. Skjei cratered. It’s been very inconsistent. Panarin was already established. Mika was always trending up. I’m not going to say he has had no impact, but there is a lot to be desired there.

Chytil did not regress. He overall game improved.

Trouba was basically on pace to match his performance stat-wise from the previous season — which was the best of his career.

DeAngelo has emerged as a very good offensive defenseman.

We've seen stretches where Buchnevich has played his best hockey as a Ranger.

Skjei is gone and was cratering well before Quinn got here.

You can say that Zibanejad was trending up, but has played the best hockey of his career under Quinn.

The same can be said for Strome.

You want him to bare responsibility for Andersson, then, too, he must to get some credit for Lindgren.

You seem to want to kill him for a young, developing team playing like a young, developing team. There were way more positives to this season than negatives. If you want to let 3 games tarnish two good seasons of development, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[mas0764]

Well we’d still “have to do” something like not tendering a QO and walking away from him. So something will “have to done” either way. Unless if we don’t “have to do” anything, we can pretend he doesn’t exist, not make a decision on him, and ignore the requests for an arbitration hearing so yes we’ll “have to do” something. I’m afraid that doing nothing is not an option.

Obviously we have to do something, it's just that that something is not necessarily keep Strome and ADA.

 

[NYR Viper]

Would Winnipeg trade Laine for ADA? I would assume there would be other teams in need of wingers who may offer a nice top-6 center for Laine. Would Arizona trade Dvorak + for Laine? Or would Ottawa trade the #5 + for Laine? Or Buffalo the #8 +?

 

[Fitzy]

Well,

As important as it is to look at individual performances under Quinn, we still need to grapple with why we had a bottom 3 team defense in the league last season.

It can't all be laid on Marc Staal, or ADA's defensive struggles. We gave up the 2nd most shots per game last season, and the 3rd most the season before that.

We also benefited from the 2nd highest shooting percentage in the league. Whether you think that's an anomaly or a consequence of our playstyle is up to you. But the team defense needs to be fixed, somehow.

 

[Thirty One]

Trouba was basically on pace to match his performance stat-wise from the previous season — which was the best of his career.

He was not.

 

[True Blue]

Oh, now the nuance comes out.

Well there's a bit more certainty towards whoever goes second, third, or fifth in this draft than just labeling them "futures," which you only do as part of your schtick so as to make it seem like ADA, Buch, or whoever would only be getting traded for a lottery ticket.

I would absolutely only trade DeAngelo for a lottery ticket. Nothing less. Buch? Maybe not as much of a lottery ticket but certainly something with some real meat behind it.

There's substantially more to the analysis than that. It depends what year, what players, and how you've scouted them.

All of them get scouted. Does not change the fact that playoff teams are not making trades like this.

And in this potential draft, getting Byfield/Stutzle for ADA is a coup, as is getting Holtz, Rossi or Lundell for Buchnevich.

No, YOU consider that a homerun. I consider that very short sighted for where this team is right now. And frankly, considering that there is not as much as a whisper about this and none of our own insiders will tell you that they are hearing any different, makes me think that shortsighted is a better word for it than a home run.

"We want to compete for the playoffs.......let's trade 60 points and hope that the prospect can get there in another 5-6 years." Makes perfect sense.

If you do not agree that the projected upside of those players are worth it for ADA or Buch, that is perfectly fine, and please feel free to say so.

This quote presumes that you believe that DeAngelo and Buchnevich have nowhere else to grow as players. Because if you did, the correct statement would be that I do not agree that the projected upside of those players is worth where DeAngelo and Buchnevich have not only reached now but will every reach in the future. In which, case my answer is a resounding NO. I do not believe it to be worth it.

But your doubt-casting on the prospects from one side of your mouth and then from the other side saying that Lafreniere is exempt from this analysis because he's "more certain," is simple hypocrisy.

Are you asking me would I trade Buchnevich for the first overall pick this year and take Lafreniere? Then the answer is yes. Lafreniere is projected to be a star and a franchise cornerstone. He is heads and shoulders above the rest of the fields and it is not even close. Yes, he can bust and yes there is risk, but the risk with Lafreniere is substantially less than with the prospects. The fact that you need to try to save your argument by clinging to Lafreniere shows how weak it really is.

We aren't talking unknowns. We are talking about situations where lots and lots is already known.

You are talking about 17 and 18 year olds. There is much more unknown than known. Your "lots is already known" presumes that how they have been performing as teenagers is a fantastic barometer to judge by how they will perform as adults in the NHL.

Byfield for ADA is very, very good value for us. We can know that to a reasonable, substantial certainty just like we can know that Lafreniere for Tkachuk straight up is bad value for us. And Buchnevich for Holtz, Rossi, or probably even Lundell is also damn good value for us. Whether the team will prefer it is another matter, but your constant dismissal of these incoming players as unknowns is basically nonsense.

Byfield is intriguing but that is about it. And am still not sure that I would make that trade. I have no idea of why Tkachuk is in this conversation as the Rangers do not have him. And taking players from other teams and pretending that they are on your team so that you can pretend to trade them is a folly that I am not willing to engage in.

The rest? No. Maybe they will put up the numbers that Buchnevich was putting up in another 5 years. Maybe they won't. Not an activity that playoff hopeful teams take on. Which why you do not see teams like that make moves like the ones you are advocating. Which makes it seem like you are not really using out of the box thinking and just willing to do a lot of sinking. Which I assure you , neither Gorton nor JD nor Quinn have any interest in doing.

 

[Chytilmania]

Well,

As important as it is to look at individual performances under Quinn, we still need to grapple with why we had a bottom 3 team defense in the league last season.

It can't all be laid on Marc Staal, or ADA's defensive struggles. We gave up the 2nd most shots per game last season, and the 3rd most the season before that.

We also benefited from the 2nd highest shooting percentage in the league. Whether you think that's an anomaly or a consequence of our playstyle is up to you. But the team defense needs to be fixed, somehow.

I'm not an analytics guy whatsoever so someone help me out...I'm curious as to how we trended as the year went on. The beginning of the season we were a shit show but I thought as the season went on the defense improved. Still had a few nights where we let up 4+ but overall I thought the defense was better as the season went on. Especially with how Fox and Lindgren were progressing.

 

[True Blue]

We knew Panarin was good but the teams top prospects, besides Fox haven’t improved anything special. We can take. Igor and Kakko out of it but Chytil arguably has regressed. He should have some responsibility for Lias. Trouba has a tough season. Skjei cratered. It’s been very inconsistent. Panarin was already established. Mika was always trending up. I’m not going to say he has had no impact, but there is a lot to be desired there.

Lindgren stepped forward in a big way. DeAngelo played the best hockey of his career. Buchnevich took another step forward.

Lias Andersson's issue lay in the fact that he believed he was better than he was, could not take putting in hard work and took his ball and went home.

Chytil is a 20 year old. I see no evidence of regression. Of course he is a 25 player until he proves otherwise. That's the case with any player in the history of the NHL. However, being 20 still leaves some room for improvement, no?

That Trouba would need adjustment time is not a shock. And then look to who his partner was. His play actually improved with Smith as his partner to show just how poorly Skjei was playing.

Mike and Kreider took more steps forward. So trending or not trending, the fact that they took big steps forward certainly counts.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Well,

As important as it is to look at individual performances under Quinn, we still need to grapple with why we had a bottom 3 team defense in the league last season.

It can't all be laid on Marc Staal, or ADA's defensive struggles. We gave up the 2nd most shots per game last season, and the 3rd most the season before that.

We also benefited from the 2nd highest shooting percentage in the league. Whether you think that's an anomaly or a consequence of our playstyle is up to you. But the team defense needs to be fixed, somehow.

I think that the addition of Martin will help with the defense, which improved over the 2nd half of the year (went from worst to 7th worst 5v5. So it still sucks, but it's moving in the right direction.)

5v5 SH% was 7th in the league. Their PP post new years was straight fire and the production of the PP isn't really something that I would worry about moving forward.

Marc Staal is a big issue with the defense. It isn't all him, but even at 15 TOI, you're playing at a massive disadvantage for a quarter of every game. If you replace him with a league average defender and nuke the current defensive system to something a bit more conservative/not stupid, they should continue to improve there.

 

[surlysailor]

I seem to recall Pitt wanting to move Bjugstad last off season, and he had if fair share of injuries would a Smith/Bjugstad swap work out for both teams w/nyr retaining to equal out the cap hits?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I'm not an analytics guy whatsoever so someone help me out...I'm curious as to how we trended as the year went on. The beginning of the season we were a shit show but I thought as the season went on the defense improved. Still had a few nights where we let up 4+ but overall I thought the defense was better as the season went on. Especially with how Fox and Lindgren were progressing.

Did a really quick look based on simple goals against / game.

NYR before Igor's first game (first 41 games): 3.32, 29th in NHL (if played entire season like this)
NYR after Igor's first game: 2.90, 13th in NHL

1st 20% of season (games 1-14): 3.21, 26th
2nd 20% of season (games 15-28): 3.21, 26th
3rd 20% of season (games 29-42): 3.50, 30th
4th 20% of season (games 43-56): 2.57, 3rd
5th 20% of season (games 57-70): 3.21, 26th

So they had a really strong showing when Igor came in. Keep in mind 9 of the last 14 games were after the TDL when Igor was hurt.

 

[mas0764]

No, YOU consider that a homerun. I consider that very short sighted for where this team is right now. And frankly, considering that there is not as much as a whisper about this and none of our own insiders will tell you that they are hearing any different, makes me think that shortsighted is a better word for it than a home run.

The reason you are not hearing about it is because LA and Ottawa have zero interest in trading a prospect like Byfield for a player like ADA. They, like literally everyone, would prefer Byfield or Stutzle, and there is not even a point in asking.

Are you asking me would I trade Buchnevich for the first overall pick this year and take Lafreniere? Then the answer is yes. Lafreniere is projected to be a star and a franchise cornerstone.

So are Byfield and Stutzle.

Yes, he can bust and yes there is risk, but the risk with Lafreniere is substantially less than with the prospects.

Same as with Byfield and Stutzle. They are Kakko-level and Hughes-level prospects.

Byfield is intriguing but that is about it.

I have no idea of why Tkachuk is in this conversation as the Rangers do not have him.

He's established. We know what he is. Why not trade Lafreniere for him?

Oh, you know that Lafreniere is gonna be way better.

Well, we also know - to a very close degree of certainty - that Byfield and Stutzle are also gonna be better than ADA.

Just like I know Kakko is worth way more than ADA as well.

 

[gravey9]

If you could get Arizona to accept Smith’s contract in return, I could see it.

Dream scenario would be swapping Gogligoski for Staal with either the Rangers paying half Staal’s salary, and maybe adding a sweetener, such as Andersson.

The good news on both staal and smith contracts is that the actual money owed each of them is much lower than their cap hit. As long as they're traded after bonuses are paid. They could have some value to teams that are trying to save real money. but given the cap remained flat, it's unclear if these moves are as easy to come by.

 

[True Blue]

The reason you are not hearing about it is because LA and Ottawa have zero interest in trading a prospect like Byfield for a player like ADA. They, like literally everyone, would prefer Byfield or Stutzle, and there is not even a point in asking.

Or because Gorton and JD have already stated that they are not looking to make trades for picks and prospects. Couldn't be that could be?

So are Byfield and Stutzle.

I have yet to year anyone lump them into the same category as Lafreniere. Not even close.

Same as with Byfield and Stutzle. They are Kakko-level and Hughes-level prospects.

Debatable. And even then, neither Goton nor JD are looking to trade for someone that will help in 5 years.

He's established. We know what he is. Why not trade Lafreniere for him?

1) Because EVENTUALLY I think that Lafreniere will do more for the Rangers 2) Because I do not really know if Ottawa would make that trade right now.

Oh, you know that Lafreniere is gonna be way better.

I know nothing of the sort. But that is a gamble that I am willing to take and keep the first overall pick.

Well, we also know - to a very close degree of certainty - that Byfield and Stutzle are also gonna be better than ADA.

We know nothing of the sort. That is you talking out of your tukhus. See how many young defensemen produced 60 points in the last 10-15 years. Since a 60 point defenseman is much more valuable than a 70 point forward, for your statement to be valid they would have to be complete superstars to be looked as better. Considering how long it took MacKinnon to start producing that way, all you are doing is proving my point. You are trading something for what you hope will help you in 5 years.

Just like I know Kakko is worth way more than ADA as well.

You HOPE he is better. For right now, you have nothing but hopes and dreams.

Which is again, why teams who have playoff contention in their minds do not make such trades. Fans on message boards who pretend that they are playing East Coast Hockey Manager do.

 

[NYRangers16]

fine by me. The top 9 look inter-changeable af.

I didn't expect the roster to be potentially this strong. Certainly LAF and Gauts did the trick.

I’d argue that it’s strong at forward and goaltending, but that D needs a LOT of work. For a team with so many great D prospects, it’s unfortunate that none are likely ready to take over next year. But hey, that’s what short term contracts are for.

 

[Ola]

Max Domi's best season came as a center.

He's probably not the kind of center we need, but a center he is.

Actually, I think he could be a perfect center for guys like Kakko and Laf. He is really good at getting the puck to his wingers. I think he checks a lot of boxes.

 

[Ola]

Would Winnipeg trade Laine for ADA? I would assume there would be other teams in need of wingers who may offer a nice top-6 center for Laine. Would Arizona trade Dvorak + for Laine? Or would Ottawa trade the #5 + for Laine? Or Buffalo the #8 +?

How comfortable would a team like that be that they can keep ADA long-term? He got what 3 years to UFA, but the head aches starts a lot sooner with everyone knowing that the UFA deadline isn’t far off. Winnipeg has been through this with Trouba recently.

I am definitely concerned that only about 10 teams would feel comfortable that they could keep ADA more than a few years if they trade for him.

 

[Ola]

Staal for Ghost?

 

[kovazub94]

His best position is center which was clearly shown when he was good in the first 2 games against Carolina and then struggled in game 3 when he was put on the wing for Howden to be the center on that line, he's one of the best players on the team at zone entries, he does defend well and he was on the second PP unit a decent of the season and the PK toward the end of the season. Maybe you just stopped watching him in December?

Chytil has always had a better showing at center than wing. ALWAYS. Unless that doesn't fit one's agenda.