Never said we “have to do” anything. Actually making the point that I believe we’re not going to do much and if we do, LD May be the area to target.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LII
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- Oct 23, 2014
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Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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Yes, as you move from say the 60th pick to the 1st pick there's increasingly more certainty. At some point in there it becomes worth a known quantity like DeAngelo or Tkachuk, but you're disagreeing on where.
Well said.
The hyperbole based off of a 3 game sample size under really unusual circumstances by some in here has gotten exhausting.
Maybe some of that was lack of proper preparation (which is on coaching) but it really just seemed like the prefect storm of our top guys really struggling to find their game, shitty forward depth (which we knew existed) and DeAngelo not being able to carry Staal due to injury.
I am disagreeing that Gorton would trade a player like DeAngelo in order to draft a prospect that you would pray develops as he seems to be doing. And the further you get away form 1OA the more the uncertainty gets. At 5, there are several that might be the choice.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Exactly.
Even if the 5th OA develops into a decent NHL player, will he be as valuable as a 50-60 pt. RD? Probably not. I don't see the value in sending ADA packing and throwing a dart at the dart board - especially given where this team is in its development and having two first round picks in this draft already.
NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
Kreider-Zibs-Buch
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
LAF-Chytil-Gauthier
Lemieux-Howden-Fast
Our forward line-up looks ... legit af?! imo
ADA-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Reunanen-Smith
Shest
Georgy
Smith and Howden could be upgraded down the road ... this shit* can easily compete for a second rnd
*the projected line-up is easily possible with reasonable askings from the players and a Staal buyout. Regardless of Hank.
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
LAF-Chytil-Gauthier
Lemieux-Howden-Fast
Our forward line-up looks ... legit af?! imo
ADA-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Reunanen-Smith
Shest
Georgy
Smith and Howden could be upgraded down the road ... this shit* can easily compete for a second rnd
*the projected line-up is easily possible with reasonable askings from the players and a Staal buyout. Regardless of Hank.
If we're rolling with those players, I'd flip the wingers on line 1 and 3.
Chytil with Kreider and Buchnevich was a beast line.
- Jul 16, 2005
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NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
fine by me. The top 9 look inter-changeable af.
I didn't expect the roster to be potentially this strong. Certainly LAF and Gauts did the trick.
- Jul 16, 2005
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Oh, now the nuance comes out.
Well there's a bit more certainty towards whoever goes second, third, or fifth in this draft than just labeling them "futures," which you only do as part of your schtick so as to make it seem like ADA, Buch, or whoever would only be getting traded for a lottery ticket.
There's substantially more to the analysis than that. It depends what year, what players, and how you've scouted them.
And in this potential draft, getting Byfield/Stutzle for ADA is a coup, as is getting Holtz, Rossi or Lundell for Buchnevich.
If you do not agree that the projected upside of those players are worth it for ADA or Buch, that is perfectly fine, and please feel free to say so.
But your doubt-casting on the prospects from one side of your mouth and then from the other side saying that Lafreniere is exempt from this analysis because he's "more certain," is simple hypocrisy.
We aren't talking unknowns. We are talking about situations where lots and lots is already known.
Byfield for ADA is very, very good value for us. We can know that to a reasonable, substantial certainty just like we can know that Lafreniere for Tkachuk straight up is bad value for us. And Buchnevich for Holtz, Rossi, or probably even Lundell is also damn good value for us. Whether the team will prefer it is another matter, but your constant dismissal of these incoming players as unknowns is basically nonsense.
- Jul 16, 2005
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Well you did say that, actually. You said, quote, "Chances are we're gonna have to roll with ADA and Strome until we know more about Chytil and Lundkvist."
No, we don't have to.
But you very well may be right that the team elects to do that.
I was just saying let's not get so swept up in "have to," for veterans who don't move the needle very much like Strome. Their loss for a season or two while kids develop is not debilitating to a rebuild.
- Jul 16, 2005
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Exactly.
And Stutzle or Byfield is worth ADA. In fact that value is so lopsided in our favor that no one would dream of offering it to us.
Similarly, Buchnevich for Holtz or Rossi is also probably favoring us pretty strongly. Which is why if a team like Buffalo wants a "now," player rather than a "3 years from now," player, we are in a position that we should be taking advantage. Because our window, if we are being honest, is more likely 3 years from now than next year. Buffalo gets the better player now, we get the better player 3 years from now.
Both of these things require speculation and determination of likelihood, though. Its possible Buchnevich sucks this year or that whoever we'd get at 8 is instantly better than Buchnevich, as well. None of those things are impossible.
If this team itself prefers the NOW of Buchnevich that's their prerogative; it's not one I agree with but they can obviously decide that. But the decision isn't made because of not having comfortable projections on these kids.
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Savant
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- Oct 3, 2013
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I mean you spelled out why the team didn’t overachieve in my opinion Right there too. They shouldn’t have been a playoff team and they proved it by crashing down to earth. We knew Panarin was good but the teams top prospects, besides Fox haven’t improved anything special. We can take. Igor and Kakko out of it but Chytil arguably has regressed. He should have some responsibility for Lias. Trouba has a tough season. Skjei cratered. It’s been very inconsistent. Panarin was already established. Mika was always trending up. I’m not going to say he has had no impact, but there is a lot to be desired there.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
And a past his prime Hank starting games 1 and 2 and giving up a goal in the first five minutes both games.
(Never mind the mental side of playing during a freaking pandemic in a bizarre bubble environment...)
Well we’d still “have to do” something like not tendering a QO and walking away from him. So something will “have to done” either way. Unless if we don’t “have to do” anything, we can pretend he doesn’t exist, not make a decision on him, and ignore the requests for an arbitration hearing so yes we’ll “have to do” something. I’m afraid that doing nothing is not an option.
Savant
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How so? We still don’t know what he best position is, he can’t drive a line. He doesn’t defend, win faceoffs or play special teams. What does he do? About half of his production for the season came in before December. What am I missing?
All the Chytil defenders like to say he is young but cant say what he does. He is a 25 point player until proving other wise.
GeorgeKaplan
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GeorgeKaplan
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His best position is center which was clearly shown when he was good in the first 2 games against Carolina and then struggled in game 3 when he was put on the wing for Howden to be the center on that line, he's one of the best players on the team at zone entries, he does defend well and he was on the second PP unit a decent of the season and the PK toward the end of the season. Maybe you just stopped watching him in December?
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His defensive numbers are pretty good btw, a legit step up from last year.
You're missing everything. Do you know how many lay ups Buchnevich beefed with Chytil? There were a ton. His all around game, especially his game along the walls, was much improved.
Also, Lindgren improved pretty dramatically as the year went on. DeAngelo had a break out year. Even if Zibanejad was trending up, his 2 best seasons have come under David Quinn. You already mentioned Fox. The only young guy who regressed was Howden.
You can't cherry pick the guys who had a tough time and ignore the guys who have improved under Quinn's watch.
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